Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class[W:194]

[MTAtech]

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

WASHINGTON — President Obama will use his State of the Union address to call on Congress to raise taxes and fees on the wealthiest taxpayers and the largest financial firms to finance an array of tax cuts for the middle class, pressing to reshape the tax code to help working families, administration officials said on Saturday.
...
The president’s plan would raise $320 billion over the next decade, while adding new provisions cutting taxes by $175 billion over the same period. The revenue generated would also cover an initiative Mr. Obama announced this month, offering some students two years of tuition-free community college, which the White House has said would cost $60 billion over 10 years.

Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

 

[ludin]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class



Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

more pandering an whole lot of nothing. just more partisan politics from a guy that got his rear end kicked and can't deal with the fact
that people reject his ideology.

if you want to fix the tax code then fix the tax code. stop pandering and acting like a cry baby.
you are suppose to be the leader of the free world I doubt he will ever act like one.

more tax and spend of liberal failed ideology

 

[humbolt]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class



Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

That is an unsubstantiated meme. In fact, the most wealthy in congress are democrats. And in fact, the large corporate donors appear to lean slightly to the democrats. That last is subject to debate, but at the very least, your statement that I bolded is hogwash in any case.

 

[washunut]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class



Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

First you may want to look around and see who really is the party of the rich. Where does most of the money from Silicone Valley, Hollywood and New York/ Connecticut hedge funds go?

That aside, how about real tax reform. This president who is too cute by half, always talks about what he wants instead of proposing a real deal. That is why America has wasted 6 going on 8 years without real solutions to real problems.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

That is an unsubstantiated meme. In fact, the most wealthy in congress are democrats. And in fact, the large corporate donors appear to lean slightly to the democrats. That last is subject to debate, but at the very least, your statement that I bolded is hogwash in any case.

It's because BOTH parties support corporations, just in different ways. Republicrats support corporations by keeping their taxes low. Demopublicans support corporations with more and more means tested welfare, which allows corporations to get away with paying their people less and less...IE, corporate wellfare.

 

[humbolt]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

It's because BOTH parties support corporations, just in different ways. Republicrats support corporations by keeping their taxes low. Demopublicans support corporations with more and more means tested welfare, which allows corporations to get away with paying their people less and less...IE, corporate wellfare.

Correct. Of course they do. It's where the money is. If one wants to be even handed in criticism, both are equally guilty of exploiting that reality. To accuse one and not the other party is hypocritically exposing another agenda based on a desired perception rather than the truth.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

That is an unsubstantiated meme. In fact, the most wealthy in congress are democrats. And in fact, the large corporate donors appear to lean slightly to the democrats. That last is subject to debate, but at the very least, your statement that I bolded is hogwash in any case.

It's not about the wealth of the individual members. It's about who they represent.

Unsubstantiated meme? There are countless examples. Back in 2011, Congressional Republicans held up renewing unemployment benefits, something that has always been routine, unless Obama agreed to renew upper income tax-cuts that were going to expire.

According to David Stockman, who served as budget director under Reagan, "The Republican Party has totally abdicated its job in our democracy, which is to act as the guardian of fiscal discipline and responsibility," "They're on an anti-tax jihad – one that benefits the prosperous classes."

But almost without exception, every proposal put forth by GOP lawmakers and presidential candidates is intended to preserve or expand tax privileges for the wealthiest Americans. Look at Romney's 2012 proposals, cut or eliminate capital gains taxes, which would have aided people like him and added the burden onto the middle class.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

First you may want to look around and see who really is the party of the rich. Where does most of the money from Silicone Valley, Hollywood and New York/ Connecticut hedge funds go?

That aside, how about real tax reform. This president who is too cute by half, always talks about what he wants instead of proposing a real deal. That is why America has wasted 6 going on 8 years without real solutions to real problems.

From Politifacts:

Securities & Investment

Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans


2012..........................$59.3 million.............................$130.9 million

2014..........................$17.6 million..............................$30 million

Hedge Funds


Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans


2012..........................$4.06 million.............................$12.5 million

2014..........................$1.75 million..............................$3.69 million

Commercial Banks



Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans

2012..........................$10.7 million..........................$26.4 million

2014............................3.3 million..............................$7.63 million

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

That is the key part of this, we are talking about Obama intentionally baiting Republicans into the next round of class warfare. 2016 is on the line and it makes sense for Obama to challenge Republicans running the 114th Congress.

I suspect we will see nothing short of a full onslaught of social matters one the class warfare is hyped up, they are issues that Democrats can bait Republicans into speaking about pretty much at will. Usually with consequence for Republicans.

 

[humbolt]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

It's not about the wealth of the individual members. It's about who they represent.

Indeed: In Congress, Democrats Are The Party Of The Rich

Unsubstantiated meme? There are countless examples. Back in 2011, Congressional Republicans held up renewing unemployment benefits, something that has always been routine, unless Obama agreed to renew upper income tax-cuts that were going to expire.

According to David Stockman, who served as budget director under Reagan, "The Republican Party has totally abdicated its job in our democracy, which is to act as the guardian of fiscal discipline and responsibility," "They're on an anti-tax jihad – one that benefits the prosperous classes."

But almost without exception, every proposal put forth by GOP lawmakers and presidential candidates is intended to preserve or expand tax privileges for the wealthiest Americans. Look at Romney's 2012 proposals, cut or eliminate capital gains taxes, which would have aided people like him and added the burden onto the middle class.

True, and the chief reason is that people with money are the ones who fund expansion of private enterprise. I realize this isn't a Keynesian concept and therefore is subject to ridicule from the left. However, if the private economy is to expand, it will come from money invested by those who have it, and not those who don't. Seems kind of simple.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

That is the key part of this, we are talking about Obama intentionally baiting Republicans into the next round of class warfare. 2016 is on the line and it makes sense for Obama to challenge Republicans running the 114th Congress.

I suspect we will see nothing short of a full onslaught of social matters one the class warfare is hyped up, they are issues that Democrats can bait Republicans into speaking about pretty much at will. Usually with consequence for Republicans.

I love this "class warfare," mantra. When Republicans lower taxes on the wealthy and pay for it by cutting social programs, that's not class warfare. When Democrats try to pull it back to the way it was, the GOP screams, CLASS WARFARE!

The capital gains tax that Obama is proposing is the rate that existed under Reagan.

 

[AJiveMan]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class



Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

Wait one minute, someone will whip out this guy.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

...However, if the private economy is to expand, it will come from money invested by those who have it, and not those who don't. Seems kind of simple.

Where is the evidence that cutting taxes for the last 35 years resulted in increased investment? I don't see it.

Moreover, why is it that investors must be incentivized with favorable tax-rates to invest but workers don't need to be incentivized to work?

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

I love this "class warfare," mantra. When Republicans lower taxes on the wealthy and pay for it by cutting social programs, that's not class warfare. When Democrats try to pull it back to the way it was, the GOP screams, CLASS WARFARE!

The capital gains tax that Obama is proposing is the rate that existed under Reagan.

You pretending this is not about class warfare? This is purely about politics, and has little to do with helping the middle class. If Obama felt so strongly about this he could have handled it back in the 111th Congress when he had Democratic control to work with. The 112th and 113th was split, House Republican so little hope there. Now that the 114th is firmly Republican Obama is doing this to bait Republicans on taxation.

You and I both know it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

The wonderful sounding plan of "the public" paying for those with at least a 2.5 GPA while attending "certified" schools ignores what is extremely likely to happen as a result. Let's assume that as many as 2/3 (probably a high estimate) of the CC students do attain that target GPA (meaning that the CC gets paid for educating them) which means that 1/3 attend that CC without it being "free" (paid for by the public). That means that in order to get the same revenue per student that CC tuitions must rise by 33% to break even under the new "single payer" system.

Unlike a student loan which, at least in theory, must be repaid regardless of GPA outcome this program rewards the CC only for those "good students" that manage to earn (or are said to have earned) at least a 2.5 GPA. Does anyone not see the potential for CC grade inflation as well as artificial CC tuition increases?

 

[AJiveMan]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Where is the evidence that cutting taxes for the last 35 years resulted in increased investment? I don't see it.

Moreover, why is it that investors must be incentivized with favorable tax-rates to invest but workers don't need to be incentivized to work?

Now ask them where the jobs are that the job creators were supposed to supply with tax cut incentives.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

From each according to their ability (to pay more taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff). Where have we seen this economic plan for a true utopia before?

 

[humbolt]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Where is the evidence that cutting taxes for the last 35 years resulted in increased investment? I don't see it.

Here is a summary of a study by Canadians on exactly that:

"This paper examines the impact of tax rates on economic growth rate using panel
data from Canadian provinces over the period 1977–2006. Our empirical analysis
indicates that a higher CIT rate is associated with lower private investment and slower
economic growth. However, the PIT rate does not affect the growth rate and investment
once one controls for provincial fi xed effects. Our empirical estimates suggest that a 1
percentage point cut in the CIT rate is related to 0.1–0.2 percentage point increase in
the transitional growth rate.
We use the empirical results to assess the impacts of BC’s 2001 tax cuts on the prov-
ince’s output and growth rate. The results indicate that in the long run BC’s per capita
GDP with the CIT tax cut will be about 16 percent higher than in the absence of the
tax cut. Thus, in the long run, the small “temporary” increase in the per capita growth
rate translates into a signifi cant long-run output gain for the province."

I've offered the above because it's independent of our politics.

Moreover, why is it that investors must be incentivized with favorable tax-rates to invest but workers don't need to be incentivized to work?

Workers, just like investors, are subject to the stimulative effect of tax decreases. I've never said they wouldn't be. Understand, the effect of reducing taxes will result in decreased revenues to the government over time. Early in the effort, tax revenues will increase, but in time the full effect of the cuts will reduce revenue. If the political considerations of this effort were removed, taxes should climb slowly following a significant cut - when the private economy can withstand an increase without serious deleterious affect.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

That is the key part of this, we are talking about Obama intentionally baiting Republicans into the next round of class warfare. 2016 is on the line and it makes sense for Obama to challenge Republicans running the 114th Congress.

I suspect we will see nothing short of a full onslaught of social matters one the class warfare is hyped up, they are issues that Democrats can bait Republicans into speaking about pretty much at will. Usually with consequence for Republicans.

Indeed. All the while claiming that it's the Republicans that are playing political games. Well Mr. President, this is little more than a political that you've instigated.

This is all Obama knows how to do. He knows of nothing else, and it's little wonder, given his experience as a community organizer. It's kinda that this is all they do and that this is all they know how to do.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

From each according to their ability (to pay more taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff). Where have we seen this economic plan for a true utopia before? )

Um..in the US...in the 1950's....under the GI bill.

 

[washunut]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

From Politifacts:

Securities & Investment

Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans


2012..........................$59.3 million.............................$130.9 million

2014..........................$17.6 million..............................$30 million

Hedge Funds


Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans


2012..........................$4.06 million.............................$12.5 million

2014..........................$1.75 million..............................$3.69 million

Commercial Banks



Election cycle..............Donations to Democrats............Donations to Republicans

2012..........................$10.7 million..........................$26.4 million

2014............................3.3 million..............................$7.63 million

Not sure where these clowns find these "facts". One hedge fund manager - Tom Steyer gave something like $60 million in the last cycle. Not sure what Soros gave but probably something above zero. Republicans have their own large donors, but to say one side has a monopoly on the monied class when election cycles collect a billion dollars is just plain stupid.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class



Of course, the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and are in the pocket of corporate lobbyists, will oppose this -- even though it helps most of their constituents.

The vast majority of middle class Americans are invested directly and/or collectively through pension and mutual funds in the American and other world stock markets. How is increasing capital gains taxes from 20% to 28% going to benefit them?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

The vast majority of middle class Americans are invested directly and/or collectively through pension and mutual funds in the American and other world stock markets. How is increasing capital gains taxes from 20% to 28% going to benefit them?

Isn't capital gains taxes paid only when you liquidate your investments and turn them into cash? Most people who have retirement investments in the markets are pretty much sitting on them until they retire, and don't they then get those funds without a tax implication?

Or have I got this all wrong?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Um..in the US...in the 1950's....under the GI bill.

The US taxed more in the 1960's, 1970's 1980's and 1990's than in the 1950's.

Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class

Here is a summary of a study by Canadians on exactly that:

"This paper examines the impact of tax rates on economic growth rate using panel
data from Canadian provinces over the period 1977–2006. Our empirical analysis
indicates that a higher CIT rate is associated with lower private investment and slower
economic growth. However, the PIT rate does not affect the growth rate and investment
once one controls for provincial fi xed effects. Our empirical estimates suggest that a 1
percentage point cut in the CIT rate is related to 0.1–0.2 percentage point increase in
the transitional growth rate.
We use the empirical results to assess the impacts of BC’s 2001 tax cuts on the prov-
ince’s output and growth rate. The results indicate that in the long run BC’s per capita
GDP with the CIT tax cut will be about 16 percent higher than in the absence of the
tax cut. Thus, in the long run, the small “temporary” increase in the per capita growth
rate translates into a signifi cant long-run output gain for the province."

I've offered the above because it's independent of our politics.



Workers, just like investors, are subject to the stimulative effect of tax decreases. I've never said they wouldn't be. Understand, the effect of reducing taxes will result in decreased revenues to the government over time. Early in the effort, tax revenues will increase, but in time the full effect of the cuts will reduce revenue. If the political considerations of this effort were removed, taxes should climb slowly following a significant cut - when the private economy can withstand an increase without serious deleterious affect.

Citation needed.