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Obama stabs McCain in the back - a true Dem

alphamale

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He has always spoken his mind, and it did not matter if it was with Democrats, or Republicans, but now he has attacked the "Golden boy" the token black super Senator of the future.

Obama is indeed the liberal establishment's darling - it took them 3 months to settle down from their gushing after he got elected in the state with the most pathetic dysfunctional republican party. He was heralded as some thing fresh and new - in fact his record shows he is nothing but one more big government democrat. Before him the fake minority media star du jour was Harold Ford, the black congressman from Tennessee, and before that Jesse Jackson.
 

cnredd

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aps said:
Of course you were right, cnredd. You are always right. :lamo
I just let the forum members see the facts and past history...Anyone can draw their own conclusions...

You just happen to make it so easy...I'll show an example next...

aps said:
I love it. My one comment about McCain's letter is indicative of my unfurling my claws. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
We'll let the forum members decide...whaddya think folks?...Does this sound like the "unfurling of claws" to you?...

aps said:
Wow. This makes me see John McCain in a different light. When the republicans did their little whisper campaign against McCain, saying that he was an angry person as a result of his captivity, I was disgusted. But maybe there is a little truth to this. I see an angry, vindictive person. He publicized this letter? For what purpose? To show what a tough guy he is? I think he showed what an a$$ he is. "Hey, look at me. I am reprimanding Obama because he is a backstabbing democrat."

Nice. Real nice, Senator McCain.

As the old 1980s Monday Night Football ref game used to say...You Make The Call!...:cool:

aps said:
Frankly, I find your assessments to be pathetic, and I don't mean that to be mean--I mean it because it's true.
You're not the first one to make this claim...and you won't be the last...

Most mammals attack when they feel trapped...:shrug:

aps said:
You're a very angry person, cnredd. No wonder your name is what it is. Your anger blinds you to real facts. Your assessment of me is so ridiculous, I actually feel sorry for you.
I've actually explained my name in detail...That was Post #2...here's how you responded in Post #6...

aps said:
I was under the assumption that since there were only three responses when you said that, I would fall under the catagory of "These"...

Now I see that I was wrong and you didn't really mean it to be "fantastic"...

I guess you meant "angry" when you wrote that...:(
 

aps

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cnredd said:
We'll let the forum members decide...whaddya think folks?...Does this sound like the "unfurling of claws" to you?...

Frankly, what others think of what I said doesn't mean anything to me. I stand by my disgust with McCain's unprofessional response. I saw him on Lou Dobbs last night, and it may be that my opinion of him prior to the publication of this letter is changed.

Most mammals attack when they feel trapped...:shrug:

Yes they do. That's why whenever I post something you don't like, which is not directed at you, you attack my post or attack me. It's the sign of an inferiority complex.
 

Blue Collar Joe

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I don't think McCain was out to play politics. One reason he has those on the republican ticket that don't care for him is he goes his own way. He is a moderate conservative, and votes what he feels is right, not what his party says is right.
Unfortunately, too many on both sides toe the party line and don't give a rats ass about the American people, only their political agenda's and whatever special interest group is puckered up at the moment.
I'm glad he released the letter. Obama made a big deal out of signing the moral contract with his fellow dem's. Now? Well, hey, he made a public move. Now he is shifting behind the scenes to avoid actually having to do anything.
 
H

hipsterdufus

McCain's lobbying reform bill is incredibly toothless compared to the Democrats "Honest Leadership Act." And McCain's Indian Affairs Committee investigation of Jack Abramoff won't get close to Republicans: including Tom DeLay.
 

TwoPops4Sure

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Deegan said:
This is who McCain is, why is anyone surprised by this?

He has always spoken his mind, and it did not matter if it was with Democrats, or Republicans, but now he has attacked the "Golden boy" the token black super Senator of the future. This will probably be turned in to a race issue now, just hide and watch. I thank McCain for bringing this to all of our attention, it needed to be said, politicians are playing politics with important issues, and this hurts the people, and we are supposed to be their bosses, they are supposed to serve us!


You people on the right have ZERO credibiliity when it comes to injecting and discussing issues of race..so don't even take this discussion somewhere it has not gone in either the public debate or on this forum. Obama is far from anybody's token. He's well qualified to be a US Senator and was elected based on the vote of all of his constituency. We realize that such a feat is problematic in the Republican party. In the meantime, Mr. Deegan, consider the fact that you can't shine the man's shoes.

Do you suppose by the way that perhaps Obama is that out of wedlock black child McCain is alledged to have fathered? I wonder why his own party would throw around racist, bigoted crap like that? Could it be that the Republican party thrives on recruiting this kind of trash as its core of fundemenatal believers? Having seen bigoted nonsense like yours written by the right on these forums, its a wonder the party isn't looking for a volume deal to get their sheets done. I'll give you a refresher course on the Southern strategy per Ken Mehlman anytime you like. Meanwhile you can shut that YAP.

The sheer hubris of implying that Democrats are exclusive in the practice of party before country is laughable on its face. If anything the Democrats have not been partisan enough to save our system of government and laws. Had they done their partisan duty, we'd have had a real debate on the Iraq war. Can I get a true conservative to raise his hand please? They must be feeling mighty good about themselves having thrown away all of their core principles just to sustain party power and to support this corrupt and incompetent adminstration. But sure, the ends justify the means. I can't wait to invade Iran. Now that will be real fun!

Obama didn't backstab this blowhard. He told him exactly what he thought of his weak bullshit proposal, and wrote a memo in follow up. There could be no misunderstanding here. This was not a Pearl Harbor. This was a junior Senator informing Mr. McCain that his idea of "bipartisan" proposal was going to have to include the other party for a change. That weak half measures on slow tracks through task forces don't substitute for solidly focused legislation drafted by the appropriate committee. This is easily discernable by a simple read of the letters exchanged. Senator Blowhard was loathe to have his rightful title of Mr. Reform taken from him by some uppity Democrat that he couldn't keep on the "plantation". If McCain had been anything more than lip service, we wouldn't have to address these ethics and reform issues again. But then between Keating and him drinking at the trough of the Cablevision lobby, I look forward to seeing McCain fall once again on his own petard.

If I were Obama, I'd come out swinging at this idiot and expose him for the angry self important partisan hack that he is. But then, unlike me, Obama is an astute politician aspiring for higher office. As for me, I could care less about friends and influence when I'm talking to the elephants.

TwoPops
 

TwoPops4Sure

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alphamale said:
Obama is indeed the liberal establishment's darling - it took them 3 months to settle down from their gushing after he got elected in the state with the most pathetic dysfunctional republican party. He was heralded as some thing fresh and new - in fact his record shows he is nothing but one more big government democrat. Before him the fake minority media star du jour was Harold Ford, the black congressman from Tennessee, and before that Jesse Jackson.

That would be as opposed to the "small government" fiscally responsible white boys on the right or what? I mean don't sugar coat it, I want you to get you money's worth. I know I will by the time I'm done here.

TwoPops
 

TwoPops4Sure

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hipsterdufus said:
McCain's lobbying reform bill is incredibly toothless compared to the Democrats "Honest Leadership Act." And McCain's Indian Affairs Committee investigation of Jack Abramoff won't get close to Republicans: including Tom DeLay.

EXACTLY! But we know that the right is not interested in finding the truth and implementing meaningful reform. So I suggest we simply take their case to the public and debate it there.

TwoPops
 

cnredd

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TwoPops4Sure said:
Obama didn't backstab this blowhard. He told him exactly what he thought of his weak bullshit proposal, and wrote a memo in follow up. There could be no misunderstanding here. This was not a Pearl Harbor. This was a junior Senator informing Mr. McCain that his idea of "bipartisan" proposal was going to have to include the other party for a change. That weak half measures on slow tracks through task forces don't substitute for solidly focused legislation drafted by the appropriate committee. This is easily discernable by a simple read of the letters exchanged. Senator Blowhard was loathe to have his rightful title of Mr. Reform taken from him by some uppity Democrat that he couldn't keep on the "plantation". If McCain had been anything more than lip service, we wouldn't have to address these ethics and reform issues again. But then between Keating and him drinking at the trough of the Cablevision lobby, I look forward to seeing McCain fall once again on his own petard.

If I were Obama, I'd come out swinging at this idiot and expose him for the angry self important partisan hack that he is. But then, unlike me, Obama is an astute politician aspiring for higher office. As for me, I could care less about friends and influence when I'm talking to the elephants.

TwoPops
Hey look!...

Another Liberal attacking McCain....

And to think that just a week ago he was such a darling...:roll:

I like the irony of calling McCain an "angry self important partisan hack" when the whole issue of the letter pertains to Barack being an "angry self important partisan hack"...

It would be a lot easier to stand up and take the lollipop out and say, "No you ARE!"...
 
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aps

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cnredd said:
Hey look!...

Another Liberal attacking McCain....

And to think that just a week ago he was such a darling...:roll:

I like the irony of calling McCain an "angry self important partisan hack" when the whole issue of the letter pertains to Barack being an "angry self important partisan hack"...

It would be a lot easier to stand up and take the lollipop out and say, "No you ARE!"...

LOL You're obsession as to a change of opinion is fascinating to me. It appears that once a person makes an assessment of someone, you believe they are not entitled to change that assessment when new evidence comes to light. That kind of thinking is totally foreign to me and indicates someone who doesn't weigh varying facts.

Take Scott Peterson for instance. I am sure many of us thought that he was innocent when Laci Peterson was first reported missing. But as new facts came to light, it changed many people's opinions. But, according to you, that's not okay. I don't get it.

:confused:
 

Gill

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He's well qualified to be a US Senator and was elected based on the vote of all of his constituency.
Baloney... Obama is Senator because a partisan newspaper sued for access to Jack Ryan's SEALED divorce papers. The Illinois Democratic party will stop at nothing to win elections.
its a wonder the party isn't looking for a volume deal to get their sheets done.
Perhaps we can borrow some "sheets" from Byrd.
But then between Keating
Do you mean the Keating scandal in which McCain was included as a token Republican so the the scandal wouldn't be viewed as a Democrat scandal?
 

RightinNYC

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hipsterdufus

Gill said:
Baloney... Obama is Senator because a partisan newspaper sued for access to Jack Ryan's SEALED divorce papers. The Illinois Democratic party will stop at nothing to win elections.

Are you actually saying that you would want to have Jack Ryan as Illinois' Senator?

We can get into that one BIG TIME if you like.

How does a newspaper going after a story about Ryan visiting sex clubs reflect negatively on the Ill Dem party?

Or maybe you would have preferred Alan Keyes?
 
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JOHNYJ

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One has to remember that the biggest Planntation in America. Is the black membership of the democrat party who vote 96% for any democrat. The democrats keep them poor ,beholding, and needy and they intend to keep them that way.Well they also need overseers for these people so they allow a small amount to succed, some what .So they can keep the rest of their people in line.
Thats the senator from Illinois.
His original promises to senator Mc Cain were an aberation ,he was thinkingfor himself something he isnt sapose to do.
 
H

hipsterdufus

JOHNYJ said:
One has to remember that the biggest Planntation in America. Is the black membership of the democrat party who vote 96% for any democrat. The democrats keep them poor ,beholding, and needy and they intend to keep them that way.Well they also need overseers for these people so they allow a small amount to succed, some what .So they can keep the rest of their people in line.
Thats the senator from Illinois.
His original promises to senator Mc Cain were an aberation ,he was thinkingfor himself something he isnt sapose to do.

And exactly how do the Dem's keep the blacks "
poor, beholding (sic) and needy"?

Under Bush, the poverty rate has risen each year since 2001, with 12.7 percent of the population now living in poverty. African-American poverty has risen from 22.7 percent in 2001 to 24.7 percent in 2004, and child poverty has gone from 16.3 percent in 2001 to 17.8 percent (1.3 million children under the age of 18).

US Census Bureau: Aug 2005 Table B-1
http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

page 53 of pdf
 

galenrox

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Gill said:
Baloney... Obama is Senator because a partisan newspaper sued for access to Jack Ryan's SEALED divorce papers. The Illinois Democratic party will stop at nothing to win elections.
Are you joking? Are you from Illinois, or were you there at ANY point in time during the campaign? It was NEVER gonna be anywhere close. Jack Ryan had already been caught up in scandals including hiring a camera man to follow Obama around all of the time in hopes that he ****ed up at some point, not to mention that Illinois is very firmly a blue state.
It wasn't gonna be close anyways.

But just a little fact checking. The divorce records were unsealed by a California judge, and every newspaper in Illinois was all over that.

Not to mention that the Illinois GOP called Jack Ryan's campaign "bone-headed".
Perhaps we can borrow some "sheets" from Byrd.
clever, got anything else from 60 years ago you wanna talk about?:roll:
 

TwoPops4Sure

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cnredd said:
Hey look!...

Another Liberal attacking McCain....

And to think that just a week ago he was such a darling...:roll:

I like the irony of calling McCain an "angry self important partisan hack" when the whole issue of the letter pertains to Barack being an "angry self important partisan hack"...

It would be a lot easier to stand up and take the lollipop out and say, "No you ARE!"...

No, that would be the partisan spin of this thread and the RNC attempt at smearing Obama. If you can read, the party that is the angry self important partisan hack is clearly in evidence here. However, with the current corruption of morals and lack of ethics on the right, the President could be caught molesting children in the Rose Garden, and you'd find a way to explain it away.

I'm really dissappointed that such shallow analyis comes from a person of your apparent stature on this board.

TwoPops
 

galenrox

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I know a lot of people who know Obama personally, and I know for a fact that he sincerely does want to eliminate corruption over partisan gain.
That being said, I can also understand where McCaine is coming from. It seems he took certain things that Obama called for as accusations that no one was doing anything, which, from what I can tell, couldn't be further from the truth. Throughout the course of my politically conscious life McCaine has repeatedly proven himself to be a man of integrity, and that should not be forgotten.
But let's not forget that McCaine is a prominent republican and Obama is a prominent democrat, and both of them care where their party is going. I think there is a lot of integrity and sincere hope for change on both sides, but there is also a fair amount of posturing on both sides, since what's bad for Obama is good for McCaine, and vice versa.

We can't pretend that either of them is acting a-politically, because that would be naive at best.
 

TwoPops4Sure

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JOHNYJ said:
One has to remember that the biggest Planntation in America. Is the black membership of the democrat party who vote 96% for any democrat. The democrats keep them poor ,beholding, and needy and they intend to keep them that way.Well they also need overseers for these people so they allow a small amount to succed, some what .So they can keep the rest of their people in line.
Thats the senator from Illinois.
His original promises to senator Mc Cain were an aberation ,he was thinkingfor himself something he isnt sapose to do.

NO. I think you have to keep repeating this ridiculous horse dung while worrying about next month's mortgage payment for the trailer. I'm a democrat, I'm independently wealthy and I know nothing about democratic policies that encouraged me to remain on a plantation. To the contrary. I remember democratic lead efforts throughout the 60's and 70's that fought for black folks rights to leave the plantation. I remember Republican policies that to this day would have preferred I remain put. I would have been proud to be an Eisenhower Republican. There were many black folks who were republican prior to the 64 civil rights bill. Party' took stances. The Republicans chose anti-black/minority civil rights stance. As a person of color I align with ideology. I am unable to find any national statement or party plank that advocates for civil rights of minorities. I am able to find plenty of thinking that it is the party to preserve white priviledge.

Moreover, I'm still in awe of poor white folks who vote Republican. Hell, if you're gonna vote for somebody at least vote for someone who at least pretends to give a **** about you. But you poor bastards are so busy race hating you can't see that the overarching issue is really one of class, race notwithstanding. Too dumb to know the difference between payroll and investment taxes, nor the difference between having a little bit and whole lot.

TwoPops
 

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TwoPops4Sure said:
NO. I think you have to keep repeating this ridiculous horse dung while worrying about next month's mortgage payment for the trailer. I'm a democrat, I'm independently wealthy and I know nothing about democratic policies that encouraged me to remain on a plantation. To the contrary. I remember democratic lead efforts throughout the 60's and 70's that fought for black folks rights to leave the plantation. I remember Republican policies that to this day would have preferred I remain put. I would have been proud to be an Eisenhower Republican. There were many black folks who were republican prior to the 64 civil rights bill. Party' took stances. The Republicans chose anti-black/minority civil rights stance. As a person of color I align with ideology. I am unable to find any national statement or party plank that advocates for civil rights of minorities. I am able to find plenty of thinking that it is the party to preserve white priviledge.

Moreover, I'm still in awe of poor white folks who vote Republican. Hell, if you're gonna vote for somebody at least vote for someone who at least pretends to give a **** about you. But you poor bastards are so busy race hating you can't see that the overarching issue is really one of class, race notwithstanding. Too dumb to know the difference between payroll and investment taxes, nor the difference between having a little bit and whole lot.

TwoPops


That's rich, here we have this arrogant chap talking about the dirty little world of "class warfare" all the while looking his nose down another, and suggesting he's "worrying about next month's mortgage payment for the trailer.":roll:

Oh please wise man of color, do give us all more of your fantastic pearls of wisdom.:rofl
 

TwoPops4Sure

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galenrox said:
I know a lot of people who know Obama personally, and I know for a fact that he sincerely does want to eliminate corruption over partisan gain.
That being said, I can also understand where McCaine is coming from. It seems he took certain things that Obama called for as accusations that no one was doing anything, which, from what I can tell, couldn't be further from the truth. Throughout the course of my politically conscious life McCaine has repeatedly proven himself to be a man of integrity, and that should not be forgotten.
But let's not forget that McCaine is a prominent republican and Obama is a prominent democrat, and both of them care where their party is going. I think there is a lot of integrity and sincere hope for change on both sides, but there is also a fair amount of posturing on both sides, since what's bad for Obama is good for McCaine, and vice versa.

We can't pretend that either of them is acting a-politically, because that would be naive at best.

Some balanced commentary for a change. I've never been fully sold on McCain. He' taken some shots from his own side and pretty much kissed ass against principle just like the rest of the good ole boys. I admire his stand on torture, just as I admire Jack Murtha's stand on Iraq, despite not being as conservative as either of these people. McCains letter in response in my estimation was over the top posturing and is unbecoming of someone of his stature. I would have expected that from some young hothead, not McCain. But he has reopened the line of questioning about his temperment as a result, even though his real motive was to smear Obama. If I were Obama, I would have shot back a little harder.

I would expose the system for what it is. A nonresponsive quagmire created by partisan self interest. The business of the people is not paramount and McCain IMHO is phony in suggesting that it is.

TwoPops
 

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Blue Collar Joe said:
I don't think McCain was out to play politics. One reason he has those on the republican ticket that don't care for him is he goes his own way. He is a moderate conservative, and votes what he feels is right, not what his party says is right.
Unfortunately, too many on both sides toe the party line and don't give a rats ass about the American people, only their political agenda's and whatever special interest group is puckered up at the moment.
I'm glad he released the letter. Obama made a big deal out of signing the moral contract with his fellow dem's. Now? Well, hey, he made a public move. Now he is shifting behind the scenes to avoid actually having to do anything.

You know, you may be right about Obama. Right now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. You'd be surprised at how many on the left have shot at Obama. The Right's reaction to this man is understandable in the context of their politics, but the left has cut him no slack either. Unfortunately, he is double handicapped. His party is not in power and he is a junior Senator with little influence in the body. His success depends a lot on whether Reid and other influential Dems back him up. I'll be equally critical of Obama if his efforts don't result in decent legislation.

TwoPops
 

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TwoPops4Sure said:
Some balanced commentary for a change. I've never been fully sold on McCain. He' taken some shots from his own side and pretty much kissed ass against principle just like the rest of the good ole boys. I admire his stand on torture, just as I admire Jack Murtha's stand on Iraq, despite not being as conservative as either of these people. McCains letter in response in my estimation was over the top posturing and is unbecoming of someone of his stature. I would have expected that from some young hothead, not McCain. But he has reopened the line of questioning about his temperment as a result, even though his real motive was to smear Obama. If I were Obama, I would have shot back a little harder.

I would expose the system for what it is. A nonresponsive quagmire created by partisan self interest. The business of the people is not paramount and McCain IMHO is phony in suggesting that it is.

TwoPops

Well what you have to keep in mind is McCaine is a republican, and he's a republican for a reason. If he didn't agree with the republican platform more than the democratic one he'd be a democrat.

He's not suggesting what it is, he's suggesting what it should be (but even in saying that I am being overly simplistic). By and large McCaine has been a man of integrity, and although I am positive that there are politics behind this, in the end McCaine is fighting for fixing the system.

Think of it like this: When you help an old woman carry her groceries home while a girl you like is watching. Now, undoubtedly one of the aspects for consideration in helping this old woman carry her groceries is the fact that you'll gain points with this chick, and also you're doing it because it'll make you feel like a good person, but that doesn't mean that you're not doing it to help the old woman.

There will always be selfish and political motivating factors behind every good act, be it as small as you feel good about yourself after doing a good thing or as large as you not caring whatsoever about the good act in and of itself. This does not mean that the good act is not motivated by someone doing the right thing.

Reforming campaign finance and lobbying is undoubtedly a good thing to do, and regardless of there being political factors behind his actions, McCaine has regularly proven that he wants America to be a democracy as opposed to an aristocracy.

Obama has not had the opportunity to really prove this, considering he's only been a senator for a year now, but from what I know of him from his friends and family, he values this too.
 

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hipsterdufus said:
And exactly how do the Dem's keep the blacks "
poor, beholding (sic) and needy"?

Under Bush, the poverty rate has risen each year since 2001, with 12.7 percent of the population now living in poverty. African-American poverty has risen from 22.7 percent in 2001 to 24.7 percent in 2004, and child poverty has gone from 16.3 percent in 2001 to 17.8 percent (1.3 million children under the age of 18).

US Census Bureau: Aug 2005 Table B-1
http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

page 53 of pdf

You do realize that the "poverty rate" is a construct, right? It doesn't actually symbolize anything, and is incredibly susceptible to manipulation.
 

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RightatNYU said:
You do realize that the "poverty rate" is a construct, right? It doesn't actually symbolize anything, and is incredibly susceptible to manipulation.
Well it's obviously subjective, considering that there's a relatively arbitrary line, but how does it not symbolize anything?
 
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