Obama has an interesting view of who the "enemy" is.

[Ockham]

I am simply amazed that you would call context (aka looking at all the facts) as typical. Can you not look at this objectively?

Seriously, if any reply is going to be dismissed as "something a liberal would do" there is no way I could counter such a reality bending strawman as there would be no credible basis to start from given that perspective.

Now that you've had a chance to read the entire transcript... and assessed the "context", what are the answers to my questions?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Before I answer, can you commit to actually looking at this objectively instead of the partisan lens you are currently viewing it through?

Otherwise, nothing I type will matter to you and there can be no actual conversation.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Aw screw it, I won't wait for an answer, because I suspect you will just keep going "this is a liberal trick!"

1. The audio was useless, it didn't have the full interview.

2. This is something beneath Obama. One should not attempt to label the opposition as the enemy in a bid to gain support. Emotional politics are an anathema to this country. I expect better of him. He should leave that sort of crap to low lifes like Beck and Sheltz

 

[Ockham]

Before I answer, can you commit to actually looking at this objectively instead of the partisan lens you are currently viewing it through?

Otherwise, nothing I type will matter to you and there can be no actual conversation.

I just want an answer to my questions - those questions are not partisan.

(edit)

2. This is something beneath Obama. One should not attempt to label the opposition as the enemy in a bid to gain support. Emotional politics are an anathema to this country. I expect better of him. He should leave that sort of crap to low lifes like Beck and Sheltz

Well it shouldn't be said at all by anyone but I agree - it was beneath him, wasn't Presidential, and pits American against American. I'd still like someone (if not you mega) to expain who the "enemies" are? He's not the same guy from 2004 and instead of changing Washington, Washington has beaten yet another President, and has changed him.

 

[sokpupet]

What part of "to punish our enemies....and reward our friends" do you not understand?

Name one time - one time in the history of America - where a sitting president has referred to the opposing party as "enemies".

Meanwhile, he won't even use the phrase "terrorists", but he'll call Republicans "enemies".

Republicans have loudly and proudly placed themselves in the position of enemy. McConnell's statement that the single most important job he has is to make sure Obama is a one term president speaks volumes. Link It highlights the obstructionist agenda of the Republican Party for the last two+ years. It clearly shows Republicans are proud to be "the enemy" all the while playing the victim card. To support a party the likes of what the Republicans since Nov. '08 is beyond me. They have been nothing short of treasonous to this country's recovery from the biggest cluster fek in decades from the last administration's greed and power drunk driving.

 

[ptif219]

Obama shows the democrats are desperate and running scared. The GOP is for immigration reform but against amnesty. Obama and the democrats want to reward illegals for breaking our laws

 

[Ockham]

Obama shows the democrats are desperate and running scared. The GOP is for immigration reform but against amnesty. Obama and the democrats want to reward illegals for breaking our laws

I think that's accurate - and they should be scared but, there's a responsible way to conduct one's self as a President and Obama's statement was reckless and I'll go out on a limb here and say UN-American by pitting one set of American's against another. It's reckless and irresponsible. About amnesty - I believe that we would see such a thing come up and pass would Democrats hold majority in both houses of Congress. I think instead, we'll see Obama claiming he WANTS to pass amnesty but now Republicans are saying "No" as they usually do, therefore ginning up the Hispanic groups. I seriously doubt there will be any change on our borders, or to the illegal influx. The danger here is if Mexico blows up with the Cartels and even more violence spills over the border, the position for amnesty could blow up in the Democrats face.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I just want an answer to my questions - those questions are not partisan.

(edit)

Riiiiight and thats why you kept putting things like context in quotes. You are aware that someone questioning my integrity is highly offensive right? How would you feel is I dismissed what you were saying because of your viewpoint?

Well it shouldn't be said at all by anyone but I agree - it was beneath him, wasn't Presidential, and pits American against American. I'd still like someone (if not you mega) to expain who the "enemies" are? He's not the same guy from 2004 and instead of changing Washington, Washington has beaten yet another President, and has changed him.

I would imagine the enemies he references are those who disagree with the latino agenda from the general latino perspective within that group he is speaking to. Basically what he is doing is trying to "be one of them" even though he is from a very different culture and perspective. Its pandering of a form that I dislike.

 

[sokpupet]

Obama shows the democrats are desperate and running scared. The GOP is for immigration reform but against amnesty. Obama and the democrats want to reward illegals for breaking our laws

This is absolutely ridiculous. No one is "running scared" on either side of the aisle. It's dirty politics as usual. The GOP is picking out wedge issues they didn't give a shyte about while in office and assigning them to Obama, ramping up the fear factor, all while ignoring the facts. Link Just what the hell has McCain done for his state during all his years?! This is the biggest steaming pile of partisan BS and just what the sheeple of the GOP buy lock, stock, and barrel on a daily basis.

 

[Ockham]

Riiiiight and thats why you kept putting things like context in quotes. You are aware that someone questioning my integrity is highly offensive right? How would you feel is I dismissed what you were saying because of your viewpoint?

Well you already did do that so you know exactly how I feel. However, if your not as partisan as you say you are, then you'll agree that liberals, progressives usually use the context argument for everything. It happens a dozen times a day on DP. That shouldn't surprise you. And frankly, when you know the President said what he said and then require a transcript the first thing I thought of was exactly that. Why? Because you posted a point by point analysis of what Obama MEANT to say and not what he ACTUALLY said - as an "interpretation". So forgive me for not jumping to a conclusion and expecting the obvious. And why should questioning your integrity on something so obvious be offensive? Next time it might not be the correct action to do a point by point "interpretation" until you read the entire transcript.

I would imagine the enemies he references are those who disagree with the latino agenda from the general latino perspective within that group he is speaking to.

And what agenda would that be? I'll need to understand the context.

Its pandering of a form that I dislike.

That's the bottom line - pandering to an ethnic group using inflamatory language like "your enemies". If a white President did this, there'd be impeachement proceedings within weeks. You want to know why I'm not Obama fan? Here's the prime reason - he's a fake, a fraud and he bamboozled people into thinking he would be post-racial. He's none of those things and this reckless racial statement to pander to hispanics proves it.

 

[ptif219]

This is absolutely ridiculous. No one is "running scared" on either side of the aisle. It's dirty politics as usual. The GOP is picking out wedge issues they didn't give a shyte about while in office and assigning them to Obama, ramping up the fear factor, all while ignoring the facts. Link Just what the hell has McCain done for his state during all his years?! This is the biggest steaming pile of partisan BS and just what the sheeple of the GOP buy lock, stock, and barrel on a daily basis.

Nice spin but Obama says he wants a comprehensive immigration plan that means amnesty. The democrats are running behind in places they thought safe. So yes they are running scared

 

[Slartibartfast]

Well you already did do that so you know exactly how I feel. However, if your not as partisan as you say you are, then you'll agree that liberals, progressives usually use the context argument for everything. It happens a dozen times a day on DP. That shouldn't surprise you. And frankly, when you know the President said what he said and then require a transcript the first thing I thought of was exactly that. Why? Because you posted a point by point analysis of what Obama MEANT to say and not what he ACTUALLY said - as an "interpretation". So forgive me for not jumping to a conclusion and expecting the obvious. And why should questioning your integrity on something so obvious be offensive? Next time it might not be the correct action to do a point by point "interpretation" until you read the entire transcript.

I cannot speak for liberals in general, but personally I feel that context is exceptionally important as often the proper approach to a situation entirely depends on the situation itself. Judging things by immutable rules rarely works because those rules are only a reflection of goals and the achievement of goals depends on how the situation presents itself. Therefore the context of the situation is generally what informs the rules that are necessary.

The reason I feel integrity is important is because without truth and understanding, man can achieve nothing. Therefore if I ever want to accomplish something of value, I have to hold a high standard for integrity because it is necessary to deal with real things.

And what agenda would that be? I'll need to understand the context.

Heck if I know. I am not part of the latino culture. But a consideration of the wording he used indicates he is trying to speak from their viewpoint. It is the exact same type of wording I use when I do that type of role playing myself.

That's the bottom line - pandering to an ethnic group using inflamatory language like "your enemies". If a white President did this, there'd be impeachement proceedings within weeks. You want to know why I'm not Obama fan? Here's the prime reason - he's a fake, a fraud and he bamboozled people into thinking he would be post-racial. He's none of those things and this reckless racial statement to pander to hispanics proves it.

Thats not true. Bush did this sort of thing all the time with certain evangelical buzzwords that most people don't know. There was no impeachment proceedings from it that I recall.

 

[Ockham]

Thats not true. Bush did this sort of thing all the time with certain evangelical buzzwords that most people don't know. There was no impeachment proceedings from it that I recall.

Please cite an instance of Bush pitting an American against another American using evangelical buzzwords.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Please cite an instance of Bush pitting an American against another American using evangelical buzzwords.

So, no apology for your attitude? I figured. I will continue this conversation once you step down off your horse.

 

[Ockham]

So, no apology for your attitude? I figured. I will continue this conversation once you step down off your horse.

There's no horse. You're playing on my good graces and it's so transparent it's laughable. So no, no apology and I'm chuckling at your asking for one. Analyze the context and I'm sure you'll figure out why.

 

[Moot]

"And if Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, we're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us, if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it's gonna be harder — and that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2," he said.....

The right wing sure act and talk like they are the enemy of Hispanic issues, so wouldnt they be referred to as such?

 

[FederalRepublic]

This is absolutely ridiculous. No one is "running scared" on either side of the aisle. It's dirty politics as usual. The GOP is picking out wedge issues they didn't give a shyte about while in office and assigning them to Obama, ramping up the fear factor, all while ignoring the facts. Link Just what the hell has McCain done for his state during all his years?! This is the biggest steaming pile of partisan BS and just what the sheeple of the GOP buy lock, stock, and barrel on a daily basis.

You might have to turn over quite a few rocks to find a McCain supporter...particularly where immigration is concerned. His position is essentially the same as Obama's.

 

[FederalRepublic]

He's not the same guy from 2004 and instead of changing Washington, Washington has beaten yet another President, and has changed him.

Why do you think he's changed? That's who he is and has always been.

 

[ptif219]

The right wing sure act and talk like they are the enemy of Hispanic issues, so wouldnt they be referred to as such?

No they are against people breaking our laws

 

[Boo Radley]

And here's the context which actually matters here:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...-interesting-view-enemy-3.html#post1059063709

And what do you disagree with?

The other side will come here in September and offer a very different set of policies and positions, and that is a debate I look forward to. It is a debate the American people deserve. But what you don't deserve is another election that's governed by fear, and innuendo, and division. What you won't hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge, and patriotism as a bludgeon – that sees our opponents not as competitors to challenge, but enemies to demonize. Because we may call ourselves Democrats and Republicans, but we are Americans first. We are always Americans first.

Should he use religion as a wedge? Should he use patriotism as a bludgeon? Should he our opponents not as competitors to challenge, but enemies to demonize? Should we not be American's first?

So while he did call them enemies, isn't that word in the context of someone who will not vote for you on your issues, and not that they are muslim socailist marxist communist Kenyons who will kill granny with a death panel and destroy our country.

 

[Moot]

No they are against people breaking our laws

You mean the laws that put women and children into private prisons for the profit of white supremacists? Those laws?

Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law : NPR

Or do you mean laws that force only hispanics to speak english or make it illegal to organize or study hispanic culture in college?

Would you agree that the anti-immigrant tea party that pass these kinds of racist laws are the enemies of Hispanics?

 

[ptif219]

You mean the laws that put women and children into private prisons for the profit of white supremacists? Those laws?

Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law : NPR

Or do you mean laws that force only hispanics to speak english or make it illegal to organize or study hispanic culture in college?

Would you agree that the anti-immigrant tea party that pass these kinds of racist laws are the enemies of Hispanics?

So you deny illegals should speak English in this country. Your bias avoids the fact they are here illegally.They need to obey our laws or leave. What tea party members have made laws?

 

[Moot]

So you deny illegals should speak English in this country. Your bias avoids the fact they are here illegally.They need to obey our laws or leave.

The first amendment of our constitution protects the right of people to speak any language they want. Your bias shows you don't respect our laws anymore than illegal immigrants do.

What tea party members have made laws?

If you had read the NPR link I provided you wouldn't have to ask. SB1070 for starters.

 

[FederalRepublic]

You mean the laws that put women and children into private prisons for the profit of white supremacists? Those laws?

Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law : NPR

Or do you mean laws that force only hispanics to speak english or make it illegal to organize or study hispanic culture in college?

Would you agree that the anti-immigrant tea party that pass these kinds of racist laws are the enemies of Hispanics?

An absolutely perfect example of why I never, ever listen to NPR.

"That's because prison companies like this one had a plan — a new business model to lock up illegal immigrants. And the plan became Arizona's immigration law."

Yes. Completely non-partisan and unbiased, a masterpiece in investigative journalism.

 

[Whovian]

You mean the laws that put women and children into private prisons for the profit of white supremacists? Those laws?

Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law : NPR

Or do you mean laws that force only hispanics to speak english or make it illegal to organize or study hispanic culture in college?

Would you agree that the anti-immigrant tea party that pass these kinds of racist laws are the enemies of Hispanics?

Why do you hate America?

Please, show me these laws.

As for you 'prison economics' nonsense... it's nonsense. No one in their right mind belives that the AZ immigration law could or would have been used 'by white supremicists' to fill prisons with women and children for slave labor.