Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal[W:292]

[Imnukingfutz]

Obama, Boehner zero in on a ‘fiscal cliff’ deal - The Washington Post

What a friggin joke this "deal" is turning out to be. The meetings between Obama and Boehner arent to save us from an economic calamity, they are to put together a deal so both sides can save face to their base while they raise taxes, raise spending & continue the status quo.

Behind the scenes, administration officials and senior Republican aides continued to make progress. Obama laid out a counteroffer that included significant concessions on taxes, reducing the amount of new revenue he is seeking to $1.2 trillion over the next decade and limiting the hike in tax rates to households earning more than $400,000 a year. Obama had previously sought $1.4 trillion in new revenue, with tax increases on income over $250,000.

Obama also gave ground on a key Republican demand — applying a less-generous measure of inflation across the federal government. That change would save about $225 billion over the next decade

There is your so called spending cuts...a smaller rise in spending, no actual cuts in spending at all.

But he [Obama] is still seeking $80 billion in new spending on infrastructure and unemployment benefits and an increase in the federal government’s borrowing limit large enough to avert any new fight over the issue for two years.

The W.H., in this "budget cutting" deal wants to include additional spending, over and beyond what they are already spending PLUS wants a debt ceiling increase, enough for 2 years of more borrowing and more spending.

“Any movement away from the unrealistic offers the President has made previously is a step in the right direction, but a proposal that includes $1.3 trillion in revenue for only $930 billion in spending cuts cannot be considered balanced,” Boehner spokesman Michael A. Steel

There are no spending cuts, as cited above only a slow down in how fast spending grows....only in Washington could less of an increase be considered a spending cut.

On Monday, it became clear that the two sides are extremely close on the broad outlines of the deal that has eluded them for much of the past two years. Boehner’s latest offer calls for $2 trillion in savings over the next decade, half from higher taxes and half from cuts to the fast-growing health and retirement programs that are the federal government’s largest expense. All told, Obama’s latest offer calls for about $2.15 trillion in savings.

Again, only in Washington can tax hikes and a slowdown in growth spending be considered savings.

You Democrats and Republicans need to open your eyes, one side is just as lying and manipulative and deceiving as the other.

 

[Helix]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

we need the infrastructure spending. I'd put that at a higher priority than a 24/7/365 global military presence.

I really have no idea what the final deal is going to look like. if it's nothing more than what the OP describes, though, it's not enough on either side.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

we need the infrastructure spending. I'd put that at a higher priority than a 24/7/365 global military presence.

I really have no idea what the final deal is going to look like. if it's nothing more than what the OP describes, though, it's not enough on either side.

Pity you don't see assets such as the Navy is a component of our infrastructure. Of course it is part of the role of the Federal government while roads and bridges are the responsibility of the states.

Yes there is room for cuts but please be informed about all the military roles.

 

[winston53660]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Pity you don't see assets such as the Navy is a component of our infrastructure. Of course it is part of the role of the Federal government while roads and bridges are the responsibility of the states.

Yes there is room for cuts but please be informed about all the military roles.

actually:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

actually:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".

Interesting point. Not clear how much that clause is used today to justify things like Interstate Highways and before that, US Highways.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

we need the infrastructure spending. I'd put that at a higher priority than a 24/7/365 global military presence.

I really have no idea what the final deal is going to look like. if it's nothing more than what the OP describes, though, it's not enough on either side.

We could slash our defense spending massively simply by bringing home all our troops from all over the world, by stopping all these infernal wars and butting our noses in places it doesnt belong.

 

[Helix]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Pity you don't see assets such as the Navy is a component of our infrastructure.

false. however, i don't see that we need a full global wartime force at all times. i also don't think we should spend more on our military than most of the rest of the world combined. we simply can't afford it.

Of course it is part of the role of the Federal government while roads and bridges are the responsibility of the states.

i wasn't just talking about roads and bridges. i think there should be a public / private partnership to increase our energy infrastructure as well. also, we should be investing in preparation / innovation for the post-oil economy that our grandchildren are probably going to be living in. if you want a national security issue, there it is. i'd rather see us develop the next source of energy than spend all of the money defending our access to the current one, of which there is a finite supply and growing demand in developing nations.

Yes there is room for cuts but please be informed about all the military roles.

i think we should honor our commitments to veterans and vastly reduce our presence on the world stage.

 

[Born Free]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

i wasn't just talking about roads and bridges. i think there should be a public / private partnership to increase our energy infrastructure as well. also, we should be investing in preparation / innovation for the post-oil economy that our grandchildren are probably going to be living in. if you want a national security issue, there it is. i'd rather see us develop the next source of energy than spend all of the money defending our access to the current one, of which there is a finite supply and growing demand in developing nations.

Public / Private partnerships, that reminds me of Solindra and many more like it. That Obama lost billions of tax payer dollars on, I should say borrowed money to throw away. Further we have so much natural gas they now want to export it. Natural gas is the future of our energy and there's a thousand yr supply of it. So you don't have to spend one tax payer dollar on any green BS that does not save one drop of oil. And every green we have would not be there is not for huge subsidies.

 

[Helix]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Public / Private partnerships, that reminds me of Solindra and many more like it. That Obama lost billions of tax payer dollars on, I should say borrowed money to throw away. Further we have so much natural gas they now want to export it. Natural gas is the future of our energy and there's a thousand yr supply of it. So you don't have to spend one tax payer dollar on any green BS that does not save one drop of oil. And every green we have would not be there is not for huge subsidies.

we've already been through this on another thread.

however, I suppose we can do it again if you like. I assume your thousand year estimate is at current consumption rates. calculate how much demand and consumption of NG will increase when it becomes our primary transportation fuel. what does that do to price and supply?

I live in a former gas boom town. they also thought it would never run out. once industry rushed to the area, the pocket died out in less than 15 years. similarly, if we convert our entire transportation model to NG, that thousand year supply is going to erode pretty quickly. NG is a decent transitional fuel, but it isn't the long term solution.

 

[Born Free]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

we've already been through this on another thread.

however, I suppose we can do it again if you like. I assume your thousand year estimate is at current consumption rates. calculate how much demand and consumption of NG will increase when it becomes our primary transportation fuel. what does that do to price and supply?

I live in a former gas boom town. they also thought it would never run out. once industry rushed to the area, the pocket died out in less than 15 years. similarly, if we convert our entire transportation model to NG, that thousand year supply is going to erode pretty quickly. NG is a decent transitional fuel, but it isn't the long term solution.

Well in 800 yrs from now we can start worrying about it, but for now when Obama gets done well have a 20+ trillion debt to think about.

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

This isn't negotiation. It's Obama dictating to Boehner what will happen and Boehner doesn't even have the balls to call the bastard out.

Boehner moves to 'Plan B' - The Hill's On The Money

This is Boehner's "negotiation"...."We'll give you the tax increase but only on income over $1M and we'll forget about any spending cuts for the time being". Yet, even at that absolutely pathetic cave in Obama and Reid just give him the finger. Boehner is nothing but Obama's bitch.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

This isn't negotiation. It's Obama dictating to Boehner what will happen and Boehner doesn't even have the balls to call the bastard out.

Boehner moves to 'Plan B' - The Hill's On The Money

This is Boehner's "negotiation"...."We'll give you the tax increase but only on income over $1M and we'll forget about any spending cuts for the time being". Yet, even at that absolutely pathetic cave in Obama and Reid just give him the finger. Boehner is nothing but Obama's bitch.

Yep. The truth is that neither party has "the balls" to cut the massive federal spending and that "the cliff" was simply, pre-election, posturing to pretend to take action to reduce the deficit. Neither party had any intention of letting it stand. BTW, it worked - as most incumbents stayed in power. Negotiation is a bad term for both republicants and demorats simply agreeing to back out of any real spending cuts or tax increases. No they can't!

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Boehner is nothing but Obama's bitch.

No, Boehner is America's bitch!

Given the necessity to let the tax cuts for the wealthy expire to avoid cuts to seniors, together with the majority of Americans supporting letting the tax cuts for the wealthy expire, it was just just a matter of time!

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I really wish both sides would just say **** you to each other...let the country reap the rewards of their last inability to address out of control spending...and move on.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I really wish both sides would just say **** you to each other...let the country reap the rewards of their last inability to address out of control spending...and move on.

I wish the PEOPLE would just say **** YOU to both sides and vote in real people who will actually do something to get this country back on the right track instead of continuing to vote for the two parties that screwed us over, got us into this mess and continue to do so.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I wish the PEOPLE would just say **** YOU to both sides and vote in real people who will actually do something to get this country back on the right track instead of continuing to vote for the two parties that screwed us over, got us into this mess and continue to do so.

Maybe if my wish came true, your's would come true.

 

[Blue_State]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I wish the PEOPLE would just say **** YOU to both sides and vote in real people who will actually do something to get this country back on the right track instead of continuing to vote for the two parties that screwed us over, got us into this mess and continue to do so.

I wish we had a parliment.

 

[Samhain]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I'm lobbying for the cliff deal. We would be better off in the long term than endless games of kick the can.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I've basically lost hope for anything meaningful at this point.

We spend 1.35 TRILLION more than we take in right now. Over 1/3rd of our spending is entirely funded by taking out debt. And our solution to this is to raise taxes, which won't in any way CLOSE that gap but simply make it a little smaller, and then INCREASE our amount of spending but just slightly slower then we would've initially planned.

This, coming from the same bunch of windbags who attempted to triumphantly proclaim money no longer going to something that was inevitable to end as some kind of "new" spending cuts. This, coming from the same bunch of windbags whose plans for "savings" largley come TEN YEARS down the line and are ignorantly based on an assumption that congresses and President's 10 years from now will magically remain beholden to what is decided today.

Our government is a joke, across the board. At this point I'm almost in favor of the fiscal cliff happening as it's at least SOMETHING to cutting spending.

This emotional need to use the government to "Do good" at the expense of our children and our countires future by spending us into oblivion has to end.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I wish we had a parliment.

Why.....? :shrug:

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

I really wish both sides would just say **** you to each other...let the country reap the rewards of their last inability to address out of control spending...and move on.

I wish the PEOPLE would just say **** YOU to both sides and vote in real people who will actually do something to get this country back on the right track instead of continuing to vote for the two parties that screwed us over, got us into this mess and continue to do so.

I wish we had a parliment.

We get the government we deserve! It isn't just our representatives that are spit on these issues, so is the American public. As ugly as it is, that is us! You can elect different people, but if they come from the American public, they will also be divided if they represent our society.

When our society evolves, then so will our representative government.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

We get the government we deserve! It isn't just our representatives that are spit on these issues, so is the American public. As ugly as it is, that is us! You can elect different people, but if they come from the American public, they will also be divided if they represent our society.

When our society evolves, then so will our representative government.

Before we worry about evolving into a 'super-representative' government, without disagreement and contrast (do you honestly believe that this uber-society you imagine has ever or does exist anywhere?), how about we free everyone. This crying about how we have different perspectives competing for the design of our future in open democracy is just a bit much self-loathing.

Perhaps we should all read the Koran and go with that. Would that make you happy?

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Before we worry about evolving into a 'super-representative' government, without disagreement and contrast (do you honestly believe that this uber-society has ever or does exist anywhere today?), how about we free everyone. This crying about how we have different perspectives competing for the design of our future in open democracy is just a bit much self-loathing.

Can you say that in English please?

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

Can you say that in English please?

Try the edit.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Obama, Boehner move closer to ‘cliff’ deal

our future :

tax increases, many of them.

(promises)....to cut spending in the future, which will NOT happen.

and a national debt of over 20 trillion by 2016, more printing or really digitizing of more money from the federal reserve, further ruining the value of the dollar.

"democracy is the vehicle, which takes you down the road of socialism"