Obama’s Pick for ATF Chief Is ‘Anti-Gun,’ Say Pro-Second Amendment Groups

[jamesrage]

I can't say that I am surprised. Someone who doesn't give two ****s about the 2nd amendment appointing someone who shares his views to be head of the ATF.

Obama’s Pick for ATF Chief Is ‘Anti-Gun,’ Say Pro-Second Amendment Groups


(CNSNews.com) – Gun rights advocates are unhappy with President Barack Obama’s pick to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

Obama announced on Nov. 15 his intent to nominate Andrew Traver, presently the special agent in charge of the ATF's Chicago office, to be the director of the agency.

Both the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) criticized the president’s selection.

According to the NRA, "Traver has been deeply aligned with gun control advocates and anti-gun activities. This makes him the wrong choice to lead an enforcement agency that has almost exclusive oversight and control over the firearms industry, its retailers and consumers.”

Alan Gottlieb, chairman of CCRKBA, told CNSNews.com that as ATF director, Traver would exercise vast control over all levels of the firearm industry.

“First of all, the big concern that we have is that the agency that he would be overseeing controls all the firearm regulations against everybody in the United States starting with the manufacturers and the wholesalers and the distributors down to the gun dealers,” said Gottlieb.

“They can deny dealers licenses, they can decide that a person doesn’t sell enough guns to be a dealer or sells too many guns and should be a dealer, all kinds of regulations on how the stores have to operate, what kind of security devices they have to have, all kinds of inspections,” said Gottlieb. “There are a whole lot of monkey wrenches that can be thrown into the firearm industry very quietly behind the scenes.”

“And there’s not a whole lot anyone can do about it.” He said, “because Congress has given them the authority to basically impose their own regulations.”

 

[Goshin]

Well, that's not good.

Not surprising, but not good.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Well, it's not like the ATF or the government in general has really respected our right to keep and bear arms in recent years. This is hardly surprising.

This is one more reason why I refused to vote for a Chicago Democrat.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, that's not good.

Not surprising, but not good.

its amazing how many high ranking ATF bureaucrats end up working for groups like the Brady thugs.

I do note that the RAC of the ATF in Cincinnati a couple decades ago was a well respected pistol champion who know serves as a range officer at a municipal gun club and has helped lots of people shoot better. So the agency is not necessarily filled with anti gun types

 

[Patria Antiqua]

The more the government does to undermine this pesky amendment, the better.

 

[digsbe]

The more the government does to undermine this pesky amendment, the better.

So you want to slyly deny people their constitutional rights?

 

[Patria Antiqua]

So you want to slyly deny people their constitutional rights?

It doesn't seem to be an unusual practice.

I view the Constitution as more a list of guidelines than an authoritative guide.

 

[TurtleDude]

It doesn't seem to be an unusual practice.

I view the Constitution as more a list of guidelines than an authoritative guide.

is that based on your extensive research into constitutional law or is it because you in your wisdom realize that the constitution is a road block to the youthful socialism you crave?

 

[TurtleDude]

The more the government does to undermine this pesky amendment, the better.

liberals love disarmed citizens. it helps the two things liberals support-criminals and government

 

[Patria Antiqua]

is that based on your extensive research into constitutional law or is it because you in your wisdom realize that the constitution is a road block to the youthful socialism you crave?

The latter, although I'm not sure what's youthful about socialism. If any economic model is a part of youth culture right now, it's libertarianism. The Old Left attitude is going extinct, and with great celerity.

 

[TurtleDude]

The latter, although I'm not sure what's youthful about socialism. If any economic model is a part of youth culture right now, it's libertarianism. The Old Left attitude is going extinct, and with great celerity.

so you concede the constitution is a bulwark against a socialist government. Very good. So tell me why a socialist government would be a good thing and why a disarmed citizenry is a positive goal for you

 

[Patria Antiqua]

so you concede the constitution is a bulwark against a socialist government. Very good. So tell me why a socialist government would be a good thing and why a disarmed citizenry is a positive goal for you

It's more of a speed bump than a bulwark. Technically, there is nothing in Constitution that prevents a socialist economic model.

Now, as to why I view a socialist alternative as a viable option, I feel that's a conversation better suited for a different thread.

However, since this is a gun thread, my position on guns is that they serve no useful purpose in modern society. Nobody is going to have a revolution with their pea-shooters.

If you want to overthrow the government, then do it, and stop drawling out pathetic and outdated rhetoric about the right of revolution and protecting yourself from infractions of liberty. Unless you sincerely believe that you have the right to disobey the law if you dislike it enough, quit the carping and give up your guns. You aren't going to use them for any constructive purpose. Ma's shoutgun isn't going to stop the Ameristasi from carting you off to the konzentrationslager, it's only going to kill people who have no business being killed.

 

[jamesrage]

The more the government does to undermine this pesky amendment, the better.

Armed citizens are a deterrent against a tyrannical government,if a tyranical government does happen the citizens have a means to defend themselves against and to possibly overthrow it and should the US ever be invaded the citizens will have a means to defend themselves. Uncle Sam should not be looked at some friendly relative. He should be looked at as some sort of child molester.

 

[Patria Antiqua]

Armed citizens are a deterrent against a tyrannical government,if a tyranical government does happen the citizens have a means to defend themselves against and to possibly overthrow it and should the US ever be invaded the citizens will have a means to defend themselves. Uncle Sam should not be looked at some friendly relative. He should be looked at as some sort of child molester.

This would be a great argument if this was 1797, but it is not. Your precious firearm isn't deterring anyone. If the government wants to turn the country into a police state, or the military decides it wants to try martial law, there isn't a damn thing you'll be able to do about it, except to get yourself killed.

 

[jamesrage]

This would be a great argument if this was 1797, but it is not. Your precious firearm isn't deterring anyone. If the government wants to turn the country into a police state, or the military decides it wants to try martial law, there isn't a damn thing you'll be able to do about it, except to get yourself killed.

Why would you want to be at the mercy of the government and disarm the only people who might be able to do something about it? I guess there will always be people who thinks the government can do no harm.
A armed population seems to be doing good against our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Patria Antiqua]

Why would you want to be at the mercy of the government and disarm the only people who might be able to do something about it? I guess there will always be people who thinks the government can do no harm.
A armed population seems to be doing good against our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

An armed population in an uncivilized hinterland is doing a lot of good, sure.

But here, the government has the building plans, and isn't saddled with the difficulties of fighting in unfamiliar and untamed territory. If the government wants to implement martial law in America, there isn't a damn thing you could do about it.

 

[TurtleDude]

It's more of a speed bump than a bulwark. Technically, there is nothing in Constitution that prevents a socialist economic model.

Now, as to why I view a socialist alternative as a viable option, I feel that's a conversation better suited for a different thread.

However, since this is a gun thread, my position on guns is that they serve no useful purpose in modern society. Nobody is going to have a revolution with their pea-shooters.

If you want to overthrow the government, then do it, and stop drawling out pathetic and outdated rhetoric about the right of revolution and protecting yourself from infractions of liberty. Unless you sincerely believe that you have the right to disobey the law if you dislike it enough, quit the carping and give up your guns. You aren't going to use them for any constructive purpose. Ma's shoutgun isn't going to stop the Ameristasi from carting you off to the konzentrationslager, it's only going to kill people who have no business being killed.

killing people can be an effective deterrent to tyranny. its just a matter of killing the right ones. overthrowing an army is not necessary.

 

[TurtleDude]

This would be a great argument if this was 1797, but it is not. Your precious firearm isn't deterring anyone. If the government wants to turn the country into a police state, or the military decides it wants to try martial law, there isn't a damn thing you'll be able to do about it, except to get yourself killed.

If 80 million people decided they want you dead you are in deep do-do. and how many enlisted men are going to bomb their own hometowns. You don't know much about this subject do you. People in tanks have to leave them. people in planes cannot live in them. Despotic politicians have to make public appearances. IN those cases they become targets.

 

[Cold Highway]

So the top douche in chief hires a thug to head a bunch of government thugs and you people are surprised?

 

[TurtleDude]

An armed population in an uncivilized hinterland is doing a lot of good, sure.

But here, the government has the building plans, and isn't saddled with the difficulties of fighting in unfamiliar and untamed territory. If the government wants to implement martial law in America, there isn't a damn thing you could do about it.

not me by myself but there are at least 100 million people with arms and at least a million people who are as competent as any soldier or police officer. and if each patriot targeted one socialist or fascist sympathizer, being a socialst or fascist would become rather an expensive proposition.

 

[jamesrage]

So the top douche in chief hires a thug to head a bunch of government thugs and you people are surprised?

I do not think anyone said they were surprised.

 

[TurtleDude]

I do not think anyone said they were surprised.

The obamunists will still pretend Obama is not anti gun

 

[jamesrage]

An armed population in an uncivilized hinterland is doing a lot of good, sure.

But here, the government has the building plans, and isn't saddled with the difficulties of fighting in unfamiliar and untamed territory. If the government wants to implement martial law in America, there isn't a damn thing you could do about it.

According to this gallop poll about 40% of Americans reported to have firearms and 62 percent of those people own more than one firearm. So if a politician tried to instituted martial law he might end up dead if he doesn't get thrown out of office first. As TurtleDude pointed out you do not have to take out the whole military nor are the enlisted men going to bomb their hometowns.
Americans and Guns: Danger or Defense?

 

[jamesrage]

The obamunists will still pretend Obama is not anti gun

I guess it makes them feel that they have that much more of a chance of banning or severely restricting firearms if they can con people into think Obama actually gives a rats ass about the constitution.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

The more the government does to undermine this pesky amendment, the better.

The more guns in the hands of honest citizens, the better. I don't care about the Constitution any more than you do, but the right to keep and bear arms and the right to defense of self and property are basic human rights.