• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NRA: Massachusetts ‘abusing’ citizens by slow-walking gun license approval

Seriously!?
It sounded like sarcasm.
It doesn't "sound" like anything to me if we're going to be all picky about things. And it reads as a serious comment to me. You apparently are reading it differently. I'll await his reply to see who is more correct.
 
Is there any way of knowing if this is simply an example of the incompetence of big government or if it's a more sinister attempt to limit access?

Let's see.... Here's how the process works (from someone who holds a Massachusetts Class A CCW Permit)....

You go into your local police department or download the city/town's form from their website. No two forms are exactly the same, as each City/Town is allowed to add whatever additional requirements they want to the basic requirements noted in State Law. You fill the form out, get your 3 passport sized photos and then take it down to the local PD. Just make sure you have your three references, your shooting test results, or whatever other ADDITIONAL requirements your City/Town Chief of Police wants. Now the fun starts.....

In certain Cities/Towns you'll be told "Don't bother, we don't issue permits". In others they'll take your fee and THEN tell you the same thing. In some places you'll get your approval from the City/Town very quickly (mostly in the Central/Western part of the state). In some you'll never hear from the PD again, until you start badgering them. How is this?, you ask? In Massachusetts the CITY/TOWN police chief has almost total authority to select/reject these applications for ANY reason he deems fit. In addition to the standard disqualifying factors..... felony conviction, drug/alcohol conviction, order of protection, etc....

Assuming you live in a place where the Chief issues permits, you have jumped through all the hoops, and the Chief likes you, you'll get to come down to the Police Station, get fingerprinted, including a DIGITAL fingerprint which will go on your license, and the application will be sent off to the Criminal History Records Board.

The CHRB (part of the State Police) will do another background check on you.... when they find the time to do such things between coffee breaks and general incompetence. You're told this may take up to 6 weeks, but it can take considerably longer in some cases. If/when they get around to approving your background check, (the same one your local PD did), they'll make your license and send it off to you in the mail.
 
Oh my are suggesting government should spend more money????? Are you suggesting that a properly funded and staffed government will function better and faster???? Then why do you keep advocating for the financial starvation of government? You folks are just too f'ing f'ed up.

I'm not advocating anything - I'm suggesting that it's possible that logjam lies in the incompetence and slowness of those who are processing these applications. If a jurisdiction passes legislation mandating citizens submit to certain procedures, they should be held accountable for adhering to that law just as the citizens are. I'd just as soon the government didn't pass legislation they can't implement - hello, Obamacare - but if they do, they should ensure it operates efficiently and according to law.

If you want to call me "you folks", I hope you don't mind if I lump you in with "those folks" who are satisfied with government throwing good money after bad and never discovering a service that shouldn't end, be defunded, or farmed out to the private sector where the job can actually be done. If you want to give me a crack at rationalizing Massachussetts' public service and the work they do, I guarantee I could find you thousands of employees who could be redeployed on a moment's notice to clear up any backlog in processing gun licenses.
 
I'm not advocating anything - I'm suggesting that it's possible that logjam lies in the incompetence and slowness of those who are processing these applications. If a jurisdiction passes legislation mandating citizens submit to certain procedures, they should be held accountable for adhering to that law just as the citizens are. I'd just as soon the government didn't pass legislation they can't implement - hello, Obamacare - but if they do, they should ensure it operates efficiently and according to law. If you want to call me "you folks", I hope you don't mind if I lump you in with "those folks" who are satisfied with government throwing good money after bad and never discovering a service that shouldn't end, be defunded, or farmed out to the private sector where the job can actually be done. If you want to give me a crack at rationalizing Massachussetts' public service and the work they do, I guarantee I could find you thousands of employees who could be redeployed on a moment's notice to clear up any backlog in processing gun licenses.
So you are assuming incompetence without facts. That ends any rational discussion right there.
 
Let's see.... Here's how the f***show works (from someone who holds a Massachusetts Class A CCW Permit)....

First, take the state required course running between 100 and 250 dollars, which is only good for a year.
You go into your local police department or download the city/town's form from their website, or you have to make an appointment with the appointed licensing officer to obtain printed ones, which will happen at his/her convenience which is usually once a week. Keep in mind, they have been backed up on appointments for 3 - 4 months, so you might be waiting a bit. No two forms are exactly the same, as each City/Town is allowed to add whatever additional requirements they want to the basic requirements noted in State Law, which can now include medical records, letter of permission from a MA licensed mental health professional which you have to pay for a health evaluation, and anything else they deem necessary including 3-6 character references, and a credit report.. You fill the form out, get your 3 passport sized photos and then call for an appointment, which can take up to 4 months to get in to the local PD. Just make sure you have your references, your shooting test results, or whatever other ADDITIONAL requirements your City/Town Chief of Police wants. Now the fun starts.....

In certain Cities/Towns you'll be told "Don't bother, we don't issue permits", or they simply won't talk to you/return calls/etc. In others they'll take your fee and THEN tell you the same thing, and good luck ever seeing the money again. In some places you'll get your approval from the City/Town very quickly (mostly in the Central/Western part of the state). In some you'll never hear from the PD again, until you start badgering them, at which point they may send it back to the state police to add restrictions depending on what side of the bed the PD woke up on. How is this?, you ask? In Massachusetts the CITY/TOWN police chief has complete authority to select/reject these applications for ANY reason he deems fit. In addition to the standard disqualifying factors..... felony conviction, drug/alcohol conviction, order of protection, etc....

Assuming you live in a place where the Chief issues permits, you have jumped through all the hoops, and the Chief likes you, you'll get to come down to the Police Station, get fingerprinted, including a DIGITAL fingerprint which will go on your license, and the application will be sent off to the Criminal History Records Board.

The CHRB (part of the State Police) will do another background check on you.... when they find the time to do such things between coffee breaks and general incompetence. This part takes the longestYou're told this may take up to 6 weeks, but it can take considerably longer in some cases, realistically up to 3 months. If/when they get around to approving your background check, (the same one your local PD did), they'll make your license and send it off to you in the mail.

At this point, hope everything gets done before your class certificate expires.

This place is absolutely insane. Most people have NO idea how good they have it. Not to mention, a collapsible stock, mag over 10 rounds, flash hider, etc etc etc....those will land you jail time of you're licensed. Strangely enough, no unlicensed criminal has ever been charged for AWB violations....only licensed individuals. ??? Go figure right.
 
Let's see.... Here's how the process works (from someone who holds a Massachusetts Class A CCW Permit)....

You go into your local police department or download the city/town's form from their website. No two forms are exactly the same, as each City/Town is allowed to add whatever additional requirements they want to the basic requirements noted in State Law. You fill the form out, get your 3 passport sized photos and then take it down to the local PD. Just make sure you have your three references, your shooting test results, or whatever other ADDITIONAL requirements your City/Town Chief of Police wants. Now the fun starts.....

In certain Cities/Towns you'll be told "Don't bother, we don't issue permits". In others they'll take your fee and THEN tell you the same thing. In some places you'll get your approval from the City/Town very quickly (mostly in the Central/Western part of the state). In some you'll never hear from the PD again, until you start badgering them. How is this?, you ask? In Massachusetts the CITY/TOWN police chief has almost total authority to select/reject these applications for ANY reason he deems fit. In addition to the standard disqualifying factors..... felony conviction, drug/alcohol conviction, order of protection, etc....

Assuming you live in a place where the Chief issues permits, you have jumped through all the hoops, and the Chief likes you, you'll get to come down to the Police Station, get fingerprinted, including a DIGITAL fingerprint which will go on your license, and the application will be sent off to the Criminal History Records Board.

The CHRB (part of the State Police) will do another background check on you.... when they find the time to do such things between coffee breaks and general incompetence. You're told this may take up to 6 weeks, but it can take considerably longer in some cases. If/when they get around to approving your background check, (the same one your local PD did), they'll make your license and send it off to you in the mail.

Thanks, I think. So I was wrong on both counts, it's not incompetence or a sinister plot - it's a well thought out obfuscation of citizen rights.

As an aside, are police chiefs in Massachussetts elected officials or public employees?
 
Thanks, I think. So I was wrong on both counts, it's not incompetence or a sinister plot - it's a well thought out obfuscation of citizen rights.

As an aside, are police chiefs in Massachussetts elected officials or public employees?

Public employees. Sheriffs are elected, but have no say on said matter.
 
So you are assuming incompetence without facts. That ends any rational discussion right there.

Incompetence - "the inability to do something successfully". I'm not actually assuming incompetence so much as accepting it as fact from the contents of the OP which indicate that the state seems to have the inability to successfully process gun license applications within the time frame mandated under the legislation.

You're right about one thing, however - rational discussion ended with your inability to rationally interpret my words and respond maturely to them.

Take care and have a good day.
 
Thanks, I think. So I was wrong on both counts, it's not incompetence or a sinister plot - it's a well thought out obfuscation of citizen rights.

As an aside, are police chiefs in Massachussetts elected officials or public employees?

They are not elected in any part of Massachusetts that I am familiar with. Changing a police chief can totally turn your ability to get/renew a license around overnight.
 
Thanks - are there Sheriffs who oversee the conduct of Police Chiefs?

Nope. The Sheriffs run the jails and deal with transport to/from/in the courthouses. Not much more.
 
Thanks - are there Sheriffs who oversee the conduct of Police Chiefs?

There is no accountability here. If there's something on the books for it, it's never been used. Around here, the saying is "sharks don't eat sharks".
 
Thanks, I think. So I was wrong on both counts, it's not incompetence or a sinister plot - it's a well thought out obfuscation of citizen rights.

Yep; and the requirements change regularly without notification. In fact, the original permits were large enough that they wouldn't fit nicely in a normal sized wallet and it took almost a decade to fix that problem and get them reduced to drivers license size.
 
Yep; and the requirements change regularly without notification. In fact, the original permits were large enough that they wouldn't fit nicely in a normal sized wallet and it took almost a decade to fix that problem and get them reduced to drivers license size.

No kidding!?

Unbelievable and childish behavior - what a bunch of crap.
 
MA is run by children in adult clothing.

socialism caters to two kinds of people

the most are those who don't want to grow up

the others are those who want to treat everyone else like children and themselves like parents

gun control is just that CONTROL
 
I'm glad under Washington law that the state is required to issue you your permit no more then 30 days after you submit your application or send you a letter telling you why you have been denied.
 
I'm glad under Washington law that the state is required to issue you your permit no more then 30 days after you submit your application or send you a letter telling you why you have been denied.

I would be pissed I had to have a permit.
 
I would be pissed I had to have a permit.

Trust me I don't like the idea of a permit either. One of the reasons I Open Carry instead of Conceal Carry since you don't need a permit to OC.
 
We have no mandated response time, but if you are talking about CC permits, in my state, those are court issued and it just depends on how busy the courts are with oppressing liberals with punishment for their crimes--they try to set aside a day every 3-4 months and do them all on the same day.

So a person might have to wait 3 or 4 months for a permit, depending on when they apply? That's BS. Several states have periods longer than 30 days and that's BS too. There is no excuse to make people wait that long when they can process them much more quickly in other states...and it doesnt necessarily come down to numbers....your example even proves it....they just stack 'em all up and wait to deal with them.

There's no excuse for that. The background checks under normal circumstances take about 48 hrs. Some states have no trouble turning them around in that time period. Mine came, by mail, 5 working days after I applied for it. Things did get slower, according to the media, right after Newtown last yr because unusually high numbers of people were applying but under normal circumstances, it's about a week.

The whole thing is done to discourage people. Not only that, the $$ is also prohibitive in some states....over $100. It's $55 here and that's for 5 yrs. High costs discriminates against people with lower incomes that still have the same rights to self-defense.
 
MA gun guy chiming in.

Took me 12 weeks to get mine in, after an interview which took 6 weeks to schedule, which required a course to be taken prior to said interview, which is only applicable to said interview if taken within a year. In MA, the odds are stacked against you. They don't want you to have a license.

It's also at CLEOs discretion, so, say you and a friend live in town A and B, respectively.
Town A chief is pro-2A.
Town B, not so much

Here, in MA, this is not a shall issue state. Your two towns can be bordering, but town B chief, who has a grudge against guns due to academy indoctrination and false information, will not give you an LTC unrestricted. Instead, you can't carry, can't own anything capable of holding over 10 rounds (rifles and handguns). Do not pass go, do not collect 100 dollars. You at this point need to harass them until they say 'oh yeah, your license is in the pile' months later. Thankfully, I live in town-A. I would move if the policy changed.
Town A chief loves guns, you get your license in a few weeks.

As of now, 6 towns in MA are being sued for this practice by comm-2A. These guys are the legal avengers for the MA gun owner.


This place is a clusterf*** of epic proportions.


"May issue" is BS. Either you dont have a felony conviction and a record of mental illness, or you dont.
 
"May issue" is BS. Either you dont have a felony conviction and a record of mental illness, or you dont.

may issue should be abolished. It gives scumbag bureaucrats power they were never intended to have. ITs like the discretion the NFA gives local law enforcement chiefs. There should be no discretion allowed. If you don't have a disqualifying feature you get the license.
 
Check to see if the state is "shall issue". If it is and you have no response by the specified time assume you are legal.
 
MA is not. We've been trying for a while


Someday...


with a state infected with anti gun turds like the Kennedys, Dukakis, and Lieawatha, I don't think things are all that promising unless the supremes slap those assholes around like they did with the DC and Chicago scumbags.
 
Back
Top Bottom