This is your golden opportunity to engage an Israeli in debate Peaceful Muslim. In this light then, isn't your hallow reply a bit of an embarrassment?Peaceful Muslim said:No Comment!!!
Tashah said:This is your golden opportunity to engage an Israeli in debate Peaceful Muslim. In this light then, isn't your hallow reply a bit of an embarrassment?
In this particular thread, your position seems to be that the secular 'freedom of expression' is subserviant to the religious injunctions of the Qur'an. I disagree with this position and with the lone exception of Volker, every other contributor to this thread has also disagreed with your unitarian analysis.Peaceful Muslim said:Unlike you, i do wanna argue just for the sake of arguing so until you actually read my post not just pick the lines that fit your argument (your last post clearly states that) then i will be able to communicate with you.
Tashah said:In this particular thread, your position seems to be that the secular 'freedom of expression' is subserviant to the religious injunctions of the Qur'an. I disagree with this position and with the lone exception of Volker, every other contributor to this thread has also disagreed with your unitarian analysis.
I asked you pertinint questions in my posts that you either could not or would not respond to. Your 'No Comment' post is a perfect exemplar of your continuing inability to communicate and defend your thesis.
Either vigorously defend your position with empiricism and critical thinking, or admit that your thesis is fundamentally flawed because it is mired in religious doctrine. I realize that you embrace the tenets of Islam which defines your position here, but you in turn must realize a different truism...
'To travel well, an idea must be true and relevant... always and everywhere.'
Although your position may be theologically correct, it does not meet the four requirements of 'global validity' as stipulated above.
Tashah
Peaceful Muslim,Peaceful Muslim said:Again you are not getting my point!
Tashah said:Peaceful Muslim,
I am highly educated and I have yet to encounter any problems in parsing or understanding the English language. With this linguistic ability in mind, please restate your sentient point with abundant clarity. State exactly what your point is in no ambiguous terms. I can only respond to what you actually write... not your intentions. Once again, this is your opportunity to shine.
Peaceful Muslim said:you will never know what it feels like until you taste it yourself .. i respect your opinion and everything but you do not have the right to assume it is the only correct opinion in the universe.
Ok, I think, Peaceful Muslim already answered the questions you asked me better than I could do.DivineComedy said:You are right, so I will just watch the debate between you and the Israeli (Tashah) and draw conclusions from that debate.
Much better!Peaceful Muslim said:I believe my posts were clear but i wil restate everything:
I have no problem with this sentiment although one issue does perplex me. Were any of these Muslim arsonists and looters arrested by the authorities and if so, will they be fully prosecuted in court? If not... why not?PeacefulMuslim said:1- In my very first post where i apologized on behalf of all muslims for burning embassies & violent actions, because all of us or at least 90% do not agree with what happened since it violates Islam principles which we were taught by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) cuz even at the time where he was resisted by others and they hurt him, he still prayed for god to forgive them. Those people who committed these actions can be one of two: people who want to show Islam in the worst way to turn others againts it, and people who expressed their anger in an improper way.
This is where we diverge. Secular freedom of expression should not be subserviant or beholden to political correctness, good taste, or religion. If you believe otherwise, then you embrace and promote 'censorship of expression' rather than 'freedom of expression'.PeacefulMuslim said:2- We as muslims are against freedom of opinion when it reaches to a point where religous beliefs are insulted ( not Just Islam ) because Islam orders muslims to be civil to other religions and their beliefs. Moreover an insult to christianity or judaism is an insult to Islam it self since all of these religions came with one message "Believe in God".
It is one thing to have an opinion about something but it is completely different to make it look as a joke.
Usama bin Laden has quoted many verses from the Qur'an which he feels legitimize his deeds. Hundreds of Islamic imams and clerics agree with his Qur'anic interpretations, and have lended Usama theological support in sermons and fatwa's. How do you account for this empirical contradiction?PeacefulMuslim said:3- There are groups of people who try their best ( unfortunately they succeeded) to ruin the image of Islam and make it look like a religion of terrorism.. those people relate in no way to the concepts of Islam.
Here you went trolling for the sympathy card. The Israeli/Palestinian issue has nothing to do with the cartoons and subsequent Muslim response.PeacefulMuslim said:4- As for Israel and palestinian conflict, As palestinians we believe Israelis do not have the right to live in our land as if it is theirs but we do not mind them living between us peacefully. Details of that are illustrated in history books we read throughot the years and what we know from our ancestors until today. I do not believe we are people who happen to love dying for a land that is not ours. if that was the case you would have seen us given up long loong time ago.
If Palestinians are against terrorism, why did they elect a terrorist organization to govern and represent them? Hamas has been identified as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, Israel, the United States, the European Union, Canada, and Australia. Hamas made it abundantly clear that it would not alter its barbarian charter with an election victory. It was also abundantly clear to you that Israel would never negotiate with the Hamas terrorist organization. Still, this is the course you chose at the ballot box. Inexplicable.PeacefulMuslim said:5- Hamas Issue: if you were standing in a place where on your left hand side there is a fire that will burn you alive and on your right a fire that will burn your hand or your leg which one will you choose? i said it before earlier in my posts we are against commiting attacks against civilians Islam doesn't justify it.
If Palestinians willingly choose to allow terrorists sanctuary within their midst, then you must also be just as willing to suffer the deadly consequences. Why do they not wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from Palestinian civilians? Because they are cowards and care not a whit for the safety of others.PeacefulMuslim said:6- We are not the ones forcing our kids to tie a belt of explosives to them selves, they are the kids who grew up seeing every member of their family getting killed who do that willingly. You will tell me that we brought it to our selves but let me ask you: if there is a room with 10 people and i know for sure one of them is a criminal, would i kill everyone in that room just to make sure ? if Israeli people believe that they are better than us, does this justify their action?
Wrong. The three tribes of Jews who originally settled in the Hijaz before Muhammad was even born were slaughtered by him because they would not convert to Isalm. Thus began the Islamic conquest of peoples and nations from Mekkah to Vienna.PeacefulMuslim said:7- You had comments about Prophet muhammad (PBUH) and how he treated the Jews in Madinat and i told you that you read the last line of the story which is why i told you read again..cuz jews committed three betrayels to 3 Peace agreements with Muslims. Those betrayels almost got prophet Muhammad ( PBUH), the women and children of Madinat to die.Even after all that,they were given the choice of War or leaving the Madinat
Tashah said:Much better!
Usama bin Laden has quoted many verses from the Qur'an which he feels legitimize his deeds. Hundreds of Islamic imams and clerics agree with his Qur'anic interpretations, and have lended Usama theological support in sermons and fatwa's. How do you account for this empirical contradiction?
Tashah said:If Palestinians willingly choose to allow terrorists sanctuary within their midst, then you must also be just as willing to suffer the deadly consequences. Why do they not wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from Palestinian civilians? Because they are cowards and care not a whit for the safety of others.
Wrong. The three tribes of Jews who originally settled in the Hijaz before Muhammad was even born were slaughtered by him because they would not convert to Isalm. Thus began the Islamic conquest of peoples and nations from Mekkah to Vienna.
Peaceful Muslim said:Thank you for your advice and i am aware of all the that .. i just wanted to know how guys think of us and what you see in muslims .. anyways thanks..
i wanted to clarify one thing when i postd my msgs i wasn't intending to open up a political issue specifically, i wanted to talk to the people and ask them to please not mix what islam is about and that there are millions of muslims who disapprove what is being done under the name of Islam starting from Sept 11 until now and what is going to happen next ..
Being a muslim and behave in a certain manner that doesn't mean Islam enforce that kind of Behavior.. the following will tell you that we had the greatest leader there ever was throughout history:
" Who could dare to compare any great man in modren history with Muhammed? " Alphonse de LaMartaine.
" I myself feel whenver I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher " Annie Besant.
" If a man like Muhammed were to assume the dictatorship of the modren world, he would succeed in solving
its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness " Sir George Bernard Shaw.
" When I closed the 2nd volume of the (Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read
of the great life " Mahatma Gandhi.
" My choice of Muhammed to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers
and may be questioned by others " Michael Hart.
Do you think he would have been a great leader if he was behaving the same way some islamic organizations are?
i am palestinian myself and i am saddned by the fact that our land has been taken away from us and if you read in history you will see that israilians aren't any better and they have done worse things than we did..why they are not called terrorists? i believe we are living in a world of double standards.. this never happens in true Islam
I said it before and I repeat, what you see in media is not the true fact about Islam and what some organizations do that doesn’t mean this is Islam.. Which is why the cartoons were so offensive to Prophet Muhammad since it is not the truth
As for your question about Hamas; first can you imagine this for a second?: you own a house you built with your hands, your lived in it for like 40 years with you wife and kids, you planted every tree in its yard and every flower.. now imagine someone comes a long and destroys it and kills your kids or imagine that kid seeing his dad getting killed..you tell me what will you do? .. just because hamas is Islam oriented movement that doesn’t mean they are terrorists.. they were elected by Palestinians because they believe that nothing is working with Israilians ( military or Civilians) .. there was a peace agreement with those people until year 2000 when Sharon ‘VISITED’ Al Aqsa Mosque which started the flame and then Muhammad Al Durra who was killed by Israilians for no reason.. that is when it all blew up .. Palestinians are suffering a lot and no one knows even us Palestinians who lived their whole lives outside moving from one country to another never knowing the true meaning of home… don’t you think we have the right to defend our selves infront of those who took away everything we own including our security in our homeland?? History is filled with Israilians massacres in Palestine: Dair yasin, Qana , Jenin.. and that is just a tip of the Iceberg.. This is not terrorism!!!!!
ManOfTrueTruth said:Hello Peaceful Muslim! It is good to meet you. I was an American soldier at one time and served in Bosnia. I saw how the US government covered up a genocide of a European Muslim people.
teacher said:Straight to the basement. Careful!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=260385&postcount=1516
ManOfTrueTruth said:Ha ha ha ha! Be careful of what? you? ha ha ha ha!
teacher said:Not me sport, the truth. Which you seem to have a problem with. Understandable coming from a Osama sympathizer.
Now how about you explain to the good people here how the US covered up the Muslim culling in Europe. You see bro, if you're gonna make shi*t up, you should stick to lies that aren't so obvious. I notice you didn't answer any of my questions in the basement. I'm starting to doubt your claim of being a soldier. So let's ask them up here too. What was your MOS? Your unit? Detail an about face. What is the maximum effective range of an M17?
DivineComedy said:You are right, so I will just watch the debate between you and the Israeli (Tashah) and draw conclusions from that debate.
It is the only way for me to taste without getting too sick.
Tashah said:I have no problem with this sentiment although one issue does perplex me. Were any of these Muslim arsonists and looters arrested by the authorities and if so, will they be fully prosecuted in court? If not... why not?
This is where we diverge. Secular freedom of expression should not be subserviant or beholden to political correctness, good taste, or religion. If you believe otherwise, then you embrace and promote 'censorship of expression' rather than 'freedom of expression'.
Usama bin Laden has quoted many verses from the Qur'an which he feels legitimize his deeds. Hundreds of Islamic imams and clerics agree with his Qur'anic interpretations, and have lended Usama theological support in sermons and fatwa's. How do you account for this empirical contradiction?
Here you went trolling for the sympathy card. The Israeli/Palestinian issue has nothing to do with the cartoons and subsequent Muslim response.
Be that as it may, I will of course respond. Israel was birthed by the Patriarch Abraham and Eretz Yisrael was delivered by the Prophet Moses. The children of the Tribes of Israel have lived in this land since antiquity. As history plainly denotes, Eretz Yisrael was forcibly occupied by the Roman Empire which, incidently, coined the new name of Palestinia. A succession of occupiers followed the Romans... Muslims, Christians, and the Ottoman Empire.
Archaeological digs in Israel never fail to uncover the ancient presence of Israelites. What is below the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem? The second temple... the Temple of Herod. And what is below that? The original Temple of Soloman. And what is below that? Remnants of the Kingdom of David. Simply put, there are no antiquities of 'Palestine' no matter how deep one digs under the soil of Jerusalem.
Under a United Nations mandate, the Levant was partitioned in 1946. Rather than seek a peaceful coexistence with Israel, the neighboring Muslim nations immediately invaded. Time and time again you have attempted to drive Israel into the sea, and time and time again you have tasted defeat and lost precious territory. You have spurned the original UN mandate, the Camp David overtures, and the Oslo Accords. In essence, your historical governance and greed is the genesis of your current predicament and destitution.
If Palestinians are against terrorism, why did they elect a terrorist organization to govern and represent them? Hamas has been identified as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, Israel, the United States, the European Union, Canada, and Australia. Hamas made it abundantly clear that it would not alter its barbarian charter with an election victory. It was also abundantly clear to you that Israel would never negotiate with the Hamas terrorist organization. Still, this is the course you chose at the ballot box. Inexplicable.
If Palestinians willingly choose to allow terrorists sanctuary within their midst, then you must also be just as willing to suffer the deadly consequences. Why do they not wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from Palestinian civilians? Because they are cowards and care not a whit for the safety of others.
Wrong. The three tribes of Jews who originally settled in the Hijaz before Muhammad was even born were slaughtered by him because they would not convert to Isalm. Thus began the Islamic conquest of peoples and nations from Mekkah to Vienna.
ManOfTrueTruth said:Hello Peaceful Muslim! It is good to meet you. I was an American soldier at one time and served in Bosnia. I saw how the US government covered up a genocide of a European Muslim people. It was no different than the Nazi extermination of the Jews and I don't say this, taking the Jewish Holocaust lightly, I say it, very seriously. I think Islam is a wonderful religion, but I also believe that it is the US along with the West and Russia, which has helped to foster an environment where terrorism can prosper due to the criminal actions of the major powers. I view the Islamic World as under attack right now by the major powers. I myself am not a Muslim, but I learned alot about Islam and the terrible things that were done to the Muslims in Bosnia and how the US, along with Europe, helped along the genocide in Bosnia and rewarded the Serbs for their genocide against Muslims, rather than trying to stop, which they could have easily done. Ohh well, no oil in Bosnia or Rwanda or Sudan, we both know how that goes. You are absolutely right, the media is brainwashing Americans and so is the US government. They have americans brainwashed. I saw a much different side to my country in Bosnia that was never even mentioned or reported on the news, thus keeping the rest of America un-informed and ignorant. I think that is something you must understand, that many Americans are un-informed and ignorant because they watch too much of the news and too much TV. The best path to peace is universal true justice and humanity for all peoples, whether it be Muslim, Jewish or Christian and injustice for one people is injustice for all people and such injustice cannot be ignored. I view the 9/11 attacks as a reaction against US government terrorism. I had also protested against the Iraq War as well, believing that Bush was exploiting nationalist sentiment in the US to go in and remove Saddam, which was taking a course indepedent of the US designs on the Middle East.
Gardener said:It has been my experience on the web that there is an inverse relationship between one's attributes and the degree with which one trumpets them.
Peaceful Muslim said:We all do know that the whole truth is hidden from Americans and other nations.. I totally agree with you
Furthermore, i believe that 9/11 served the people who want Islam to look bad and justify the war against it..
Peaceful Muslim said:Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his followers when they used to send armies, their statement was: “Do not hurt a woman, and old man, a child not even a tree”
Peaceful Muslim said:On the other hand thousands of Islamic imams condemned those actions and classified them as terrorism..
Peaceful Muslim said:Furthermore, i believe that 9/11 served the people who want Islam to look bad and justify the war against it..
DivineComedy said:And in regard to Al Quacka’s attacks you said:
Peaceful Muslim you will have to forgive me if I think I am right and another person is “wrong” about something, but I will be confused if you do not accept the following argument as valid.
Since “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way,“ and since you “believe that 9/11 served the people who want Islam to look bad and justify the war against it,“ and since the 9/11 attackers wore civilian disguise, consequently, the use of civilian disguise in warfare serves the people who want civilians “to look bad and justify the war against it,” therefore, those people that use civilian disguise in warfare are the enemies of Islam.
Peaceful Muslim, in your opinion, is that a valid argument?
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