Notes From The Didache On The Early Christian View Of Abortion

[Ganondagan]

Someone? Who? The only person in an abortion is the woman. And her health is threatened by pregnancy itself. Abortion is certainly safer and easier than gestation and birth.

Human life begins at conception. A 30 year old woman's life is no more valuable than that of a baby in the womb.

 

[Ganondagan]

That doesn't explain the value. That's just an empty assertion. What's the value?

The value of a human life. Do you not think human life has value?

 

[Gordy327]

Human life begins at conception.

So? No one is arguing that. Neither is it relevant.

A 30 year old woman's life is no more valuable than that of a baby in the womb.

Again, what is the value? Simply declaring value is meaningless.

 

[Gordy327]

The value of a human life. Do you not think human life has value?

You need to define or quantify this so called "value" first. What's "valuable" about it?

 

[Ganondagan]

So? No one is arguing that. Neither is it relevant.

Again, what is the value? Simply declaring value is meaningless.

Do you believe in the death penalty for murder?

 

[Ganondagan]

You need to define or quantify this so called "value" first. What's "valuable" about it?

You're getting dangerously close to declaring that human life has not value. That opens a lot of territory you probably don't want to get into.

 

[Gordy327]

Do you believe in the death penalty for murder?

Believe? No. But it is an appropriate measured punishment.

You're getting dangerously close to declaring that human life has not value.

I've made no declaration of value. You have and you still haven't explained or quaniltified this value.

That opens a lot of territory you probably don't want to get into.

How so?

 

[Lursa]

You certain don't value the human life in the womb.

Look at you...unable to make an argument so covering by making up crap about me.

I can be totally honest and I've written it a million times here: I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

Now...you? If you want to write you value them equally...I'll be asking you to explain how that's possible in any practical, legal, or moral sense. It's only possible "in your heart."

 

[Lursa]

You're getting dangerously close to declaring that human life has not value. That opens a lot of territory you probably don't want to get into.

What value does human life have?

Please give your answer.

 

[Lursa]

Do you believe in the death penalty for murder?

Why are you avoiding his questions? You are answering questions with more questions.

 

[Ganondagan]

Believe? No. But it is an appropriate measured punishment.

I've made no declaration of value. You have and you still haven't explained or quaniltified this value.

How so?

Should there be appropropriate punishment for a woman who kills the human life within her?

 

[Lursa]

Should there be appropropriate punishment for a woman who kills the human life within her?

Why are you asking him questions and not answering his?

 

[Gordy327]

Should there be appropropriate punishment for a woman who kills the human life within her?

No. She's doing nothing wrong. And it's her body anyway.

 

[Gordy327]

Why are you asking him questions and not answering his?

Because he has no answer. Only feelings.

 

[Lursa]

Because he has no answer. Only feelings.

It's just avoiding the tough questions...yes they are tough...and a lot of anti-abortionists wont commit to the reality of their views. If they can even articulate them. For many, all they do is imagine "little baybees" inside women they dont even know. It's presumptuous and kind of creepy. As if women are nothing more than broodmares obligated to carry them.

 

[Ganondagan]

What value does human life have?

Please give your answer.

Human life is of infinite value, we are created in the image of God. Now answer my question, do you support the death penalty for murder?

 

[Gordy327]

It's just avoiding the tough questions...yes they are tough...and a lot of anti-abortionists wont commit to the reality of their views. If they can even articulate them. For many, all they do is imagine "little baybees" inside women they dont even know. It's presumptuous and kind of creepy.

Indeed. I have noticed those who claim "value" can never explain or quantify this value. They always evade that.

 

[Gordy327]

Human life is of infinite value, we are created in the image of God.

That's nice. Prove it! Who made that assessment of value?

 

[choiceone]

God has a very high view about children, i.e., life in the womb.

Note the key words

Children and Life

Child is defined as
1 : a young person.

Person is defined as
1: human, individual

Emphasis mine

Yes, and if you want to be an individual, you have to divide from the woman's body and live. If you want an implanted embryo to be a person, it has to be disimplanted. And if you disimplant it before viability, it does not live because it isn't an individual. It is part of the woman and it uses her life in order to live. And it doesn't have a life of its own.

--------------------------

Exodus 21:22-25

`22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine.

The Hebrew for this has always been interpreted by the Jewish rabbis as saying that this means a miscarriage, and that is the reason the husband, the woman's legal representative has only an option to prosecute, and the punishment is only a fine.

23 But if there is harm,d then you shall pay life for life,

24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

This Hebrew has always been interpreted by the Jewish rabbis as saying that the harm means harm to the woman. If she dies, there is no option and no fine because God requires the punishment.

That you and many ignorant people don't understand this is ignorance of the Hebrew of the Masoretic text accepted as the authority in the Judaic religion.

 

[Ganondagan]

Why are you asking him questions and not answering his?

I'm testing his logic.

 

[choiceone]

What is no surprise is that people fall away from Christ. Scripture tells us this would happen and will continue to be so.

To the extent that you judge others for falling away when they haven't is the extent to which you will be judged.

 

[Ganondagan]

No. She's doing nothing wrong. And it's her body anyway.

So human life has no value?

 

[Lursa]

Human life is of infinite value, we are created in the image of God.

Thank you. So you base value on religious belief. Why should women that dont agree with your religion have to conform to your belief?

Now answer my question, do you support the death penalty for murder?

No.

It costs a fortune. It has not been proven as a deterrent to such crimes. Locking the individual up for life serves the same purpose in protecting the public. Yes that also costs $$$ but it's still cheaper than the death row legal processes going on and on for years. Most on death row also have families that dont deserve to suffer that grief because of their "loved one's" actions. (IMO 2 wrongs dont make a right.)

But to be clear, I'm not basing my opinion on any belief in human life being sacred.

Please answer my question above about your belief.

 

[Gordy327]

I'm testing his logic.

Oh. Is that what you think you're doing?

So human life has no value?

I said nothing about value. I asked you about the value and you can't seem to answer it.

 

[Ganondagan]

Yes, and if you want to be an individual, you have to divide from the woman's body and live. If you want an implanted embryo to be a person, it has to be disimplanted. And if you disimplant it before viability, it does not live because it isn't an individual. It is part of the woman and it uses her life in order to live. And it doesn't have a life of its own.

The Hebrew for this has always been interpreted by the Jewish rabbis as saying that this means a miscarriage, and that is the reason the husband, the woman's legal representative has only an option to prosecute, and the punishment is only a fine.

This Hebrew has always been interpreted by the Jewish rabbis as saying that the harm means harm to the woman. If she dies, there is no option and no fine because God requires the punishment.

That you and many ignorant people don't understand this is ignorance of the Hebrew of the Masoretic text accepted as the authority in the Judaic religion.

It most certainly has a life, a human life. And a baby still depends on it's mother for life long after it's born.