Notes From The Didache On The Early Christian View Of Abortion

[CLAX1911]

Religious people can participate. But they can't make law or public policy based on religion.

Sorry to break it to you but the concept of law as a whole is based on religion.

 

[weaver2]

Sorry to break it to you but the concept of law as a whole is based on religion.

Yes, priests discovered they could get very rich by making laws and exacting punishment for breaking those laws. Ever noticed the wealth displayed in churches, synagogs, temples, cathedrals, mosques

 

[Gordy327]

Sorry to break it to you but the concept of law as a whole is based on religion.

Not our secular laws.

 

[CLAX1911]

Not our secular laws.

What laws would those be?

 

[Gordy327]

What laws would those be?

All of them.

 

[CLAX1911]

All of them.

So thou shall not steal was written by the US government 4500 years before it existed?

Your religion is waaay more wacky than any other I've encountered.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes, priests discovered they could get very rich by making laws and exacting punishment for breaking those laws. Ever noticed the wealth displayed in churches, synagogs, temples, cathedrals, mosquesView attachment 67565113

Laws you still live by.

 

[Gordy327]

So thou shall not steal was written by the US government 4500 years before it existed?

Laws against stealing is not unique or exclusive to religion.

Your religion is waaay more wacky than any other I've encountered.

What "religion" would that be?

 

[CLAX1911]

Laws against stealing is not unique or exclusive to religion.

What "religion" would that be?

Show that it's strictly secular

 

[Gordy327]

Show that it's strictly secular

Answer my question first before asking another of your own!

 

[CLAX1911]

Answer my question first before asking another of your own!

I didn't know. Show that it's strictly secular.

 

[Gordy327]

I didn't know. Show that it's strictly secular.

At least you admit you don't know and are just making things up.

 

[CLAX1911]

At least you admit you don't know and are just making things up.

So show that these laws are strictly secular?

 

[quip]

On 9/10 more died in womens wombs than the 9/11 attack in NYC. And our country is more concerned about terrorism than abortion.

Our country is concerned about crime in general, while less unwanted babies leads to less crime with it's broad ranging costs. Abortion good!

 

[choiceone]

Many in today’s churches whistle past the graveyard when it comes to abortion.

It is clear here that yes, God does abhor abortion.

————————

“The Didache is in two or three parts. The first part draws heavily from the gospels and follows the “two-ways” ethical tradition of Proverbs and the Psalms. It quotes and elaborates subtly upon the Sermon on the Mount, which elaborations (e.g., substituting “fasting” for blessing one’s enemies) seem to locate it more in the 2nd century than the first. The second part of the work is a fairly detailed account of the early Christian practice of baptism (by effusion) and the Lord’s Supper. The Didache knows nothing of transubstantiation or a memorial eucharistic sacrifice. The third part is a brief apocalyptic section. Naturally, there is much discussion among scholars about the source criticism and how to relate the three aspects of the document to each other.”

“Yesterday, in class, as we worked through chapter 2 I was struck by this portion of 2:2: “You shall not murder a child in destruction nor shall you kill one just born” (οὐ φονεύσεις τέκνον ἐν φθορᾷ οὐδὲ γεννηθέντα ἀποκτενεῖς). Michael Holmes, in his excellent edition of the Apostolic Fathers (3rd edition) translates these clauses, “you shall not abort a child or commit infanticide.” This seems perfect.”

Notes From The Didache On The Early Christian View Of Abortion - The Heidelblog

One of the more difficult and fascinating texts in the collection of texts known as the Apostolic Fathers is the Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the Twelve Apostles usually known as a the Didache (Διδαχὴ). It is difficult because there are genuine questions as to its original…

heidelblog.net

It's truly interesting that it says the quote you give, which is not Holmes' translation. It isn't at all clear that the original had anything to do with abortion, because the word "child" was widely used for toddlers and older kids, and the second part refers to those already born. So I don't see in the original a single reason to believe that there is here anything against abortion at all.

 

[choiceone]

We are all members of the species Homo Sapiens so we are humans. No choice involved.

Yes. And it's worth noting that human corpses are humans, too, just not persons.

 

[choiceone]

life. You can justify abortion anyway you want. But stopping a heartbeat is murder.

It's worth noting that, if you have a heart attack, your heartbeat does stop. That is apparently not death, as I survived two heart attacks and am still here.

 

[VySky]

It's worth noting that, if you have a heart attack, your heartbeat does stop. That is apparently not death, as I survived two heart attacks and am still here.

Non sequitur

 

[choiceone]

And they can vote their values and if you perceive it as some sort of religious viewpoint then that's your problem.

I don't think that's possible in a country with so many religious people. Unless you create a class that cannot vote because of the religious affiliation.

Seems about equal

It's called the majority. If you don't want to live in a majority Christian Nation perhaps it's time to find somewhere else. Or make an effort to forbid the religious people from voting.

The majority of people in the US and almost all of its states are pro-choice. Last I looked, they didn't want Roe v Wade overturned at a rate of about 62-70%, which is huge. The problem isn't with voters - it's with legislators who do not attend to what the voters actually want.

And FYI, it is the anti-abortion movement that has been largely responsible for so many people leaving Christianity, as they can't stand the bullies.

 

[choiceone]

Non sequitur

Apparently, I'm dense and that's why I need this explained.

 

[choiceone]

How does being pregnant take away autonomy

You have to be kidding.

 

[choiceone]

There are no links to verses that support banning abortion. There aren't even any verses that deal with abortion directly. If there are post them. The Didache is not the Bible.

Please see my post above, as the quote given from the Didache in literal translation doesn't ever mention abortion. The whole point is that one particular translator cited interpreted it to refer to abortion, as did some others. That's all it is. The literal version doesn't say it.

 

[Sweden]

It's worth noting that, if you have a heart attack, your heartbeat does stop. That is apparently not death, as I survived two heart attacks and am still here.

Glad you are alive and here on DP.

 

[choiceone]

I didn't know. Show that it's strictly secular.

God doesn't have to be religious when making and promulgating laws. And the main concept of "love your neighbor as yourself," found in all three Biblical religions and in the negative version in Buddhism and Confucianism, doesn't require that people follow a religion. It requires treating other persons as you would treat yourself. So if you would allow the state to force you to keep a biological parasite inside your body for months and not be allowed to have it removed by a doctor even if you didn't put it there, didn't want it there, and it had some likelihood of deforming and disabling your body for a significant duration, then I guess you can make an anti-abortion law. But anyone who does ought to be forced to have such a parasite.

 

[choiceone]

Glad you are alive and here on DP.

Me, too.