Not this again.

[Excon]

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

“A lot of people, kids, made fun of the way — basically everything about him,” his best friend Lexie Graves testified, according to the Columbia Daily Tribune. Suttner was overweight and spoke with a speech impediment: two prime targets for bullies at Glasgow High School in Glasgow, Mo.

[...]

“Every time we went to the school to do something about the bullying, it just got worse,” Smith said.

Perhaps the worst alleged offender, though, was his 21-year-old supervisor at the Dairy Queen where he worked. Harley Branham, a manager there, allegedly did everything she could to make the boy’s life miserable.

Allison Bennett, a former co-worker, testified that Branham constantly ridiculed him. She made him lie prostrate on his stomach while cleaning the fast food restaurant’s floor by hand. Once, she even threw a cheeseburger at Suttner because he made it incorrectly, Bennett said. (Branham claimed this was all meant, and taken by Suttner, in jest.)

[...]

After placing a few calls to friends and family, he raised a .22 to his head and ended his life.

In an unusual legal twist on an all-too-common sad story, Branham has been arrested after a prosecutor charged her with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

Following the inquest, the jurors concluded the Dairy Queen “negligently failed to properly train employees about harassment prevention and resolution” and that the school district was “negligent in failing to prevent bullying.” Finally, they found Branham was the “primary actor” in the boy’s death.

On Wednesday, Wilson filed a second-degree involuntary manslaughter charge against Branham, KTVI reported. She was arrested by a Howard County sheriff’s deputy, the Columbia Daily Tribune reported.

[...]

​

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. ​

This is just wrong.
His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully.

I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.


This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

“A lot of people, kids, made fun of the way — basically everything about him,” his best friend Lexie Graves testified, according to the Columbia Daily Tribune. Suttner was overweight and spoke with a speech impediment: two prime targets for bullies at Glasgow High School in Glasgow, Mo.

[...]

“Every time we went to the school to do something about the bullying, it just got worse,” Smith said.

Perhaps the worst alleged offender, though, was his 21-year-old supervisor at the Dairy Queen where he worked. Harley Branham, a manager there, allegedly did everything she could to make the boy’s life miserable.

Allison Bennett, a former co-worker, testified that Branham constantly ridiculed him. She made him lie prostrate on his stomach while cleaning the fast food restaurant’s floor by hand. Once, she even threw a cheeseburger at Suttner because he made it incorrectly, Bennett said. (Branham claimed this was all meant, and taken by Suttner, in jest.)

[...]

After placing a few calls to friends and family, he raised a .22 to his head and ended his life.

In an unusual legal twist on an all-too-common sad story, Branham has been arrested after a prosecutor charged her with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

Following the inquest, the jurors concluded the Dairy Queen “negligently failed to properly train employees about harassment prevention and resolution” and that the school district was “negligent in failing to prevent bullying.” Finally, they found Branham was the “primary actor” in the boy’s death.

On Wednesday, Wilson filed a second-degree involuntary manslaughter charge against Branham, KTVI reported. She was arrested by a Howard County sheriff’s deputy, the Columbia Daily Tribune reported.

[...]

​

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. ​

This is just wrong.
His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully.

I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.


This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop.

If she did not commit a crime, she will be acquitted. Need to wait for all the facts. We have laws for a reason. Do any of these arguments sound familiar? Let law enforcement and the justice system sort it out. AS you are so fond of pointing out, back seat driving the justice system on the internet is something only special snowflakes do.

Are you a special snowflake?

 

[TheGoverness]

Man, what an incredibly depressing story.

 

[MaggieD]

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

“A lot of people, kids, made fun of the way — basically everything about him,” his best friend Lexie Graves testified, according to the Columbia Daily Tribune. Suttner was overweight and spoke with a speech impediment: two prime targets for bullies at Glasgow High School in Glasgow, Mo.

[...]

“Every time we went to the school to do something about the bullying, it just got worse,” Smith said.

Perhaps the worst alleged offender, though, was his 21-year-old supervisor at the Dairy Queen where he worked. Harley Branham, a manager there, allegedly did everything she could to make the boy’s life miserable.

Allison Bennett, a former co-worker, testified that Branham constantly ridiculed him. She made him lie prostrate on his stomach while cleaning the fast food restaurant’s floor by hand. Once, she even threw a cheeseburger at Suttner because he made it incorrectly, Bennett said. (Branham claimed this was all meant, and taken by Suttner, in jest.)

[...]

After placing a few calls to friends and family, he raised a .22 to his head and ended his life.

In an unusual legal twist on an all-too-common sad story, Branham has been arrested after a prosecutor charged her with involuntary manslaughter.

[...]

Following the inquest, the jurors concluded the Dairy Queen “negligently failed to properly train employees about harassment prevention and resolution” and that the school district was “negligent in failing to prevent bullying.” Finally, they found Branham was the “primary actor” in the boy’s death.

On Wednesday, Wilson filed a second-degree involuntary manslaughter charge against Branham, KTVI reported. She was arrested by a Howard County sheriff’s deputy, the Columbia Daily Tribune reported.

[...]

​

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. ​

This is just wrong.
His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully.

I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.


This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop.

Why does this happen? How does this happen? Involuntary manslaughter. Well, it's VERY harsh. There's a whole village to blame for this. His supervisor, the school, his parents. How long would any parent let his son be bullied by his employer? And if the parent didn't know? He should have.

Yes, kids have faulty reasoning. They're kids. They have a very limited toolbox for dealing with emotions. There's enough blame to go around... So sad.

 

[Excon]

Why does this happen? How does this happen? Involuntary manslaughter. Well, it's VERY harsh. There's a whole village to blame for this. His supervisor, the school, his parents. How long would any parent let his son be bullied by his employer? And if the parent didn't know? He should have.

Yes, kids have faulty reasoning. They're kids. They have a very limited toolbox for dealing with emotions. There's enough blame to go around... So sad.

There is definitely blame to go around for bullying.

The majority who are bullied do not take their own life, those who do have faulty reasoning. That is the point I am trying to make.
No one should be held responsible for the faulty thinking of another.

---

If she did not commit a crime, she will be acquitted. Need to wait for all the facts. We have laws for a reason. Do any of these arguments sound familiar? Let law enforcement and the justice system sort it out. AS you are so fond of pointing out, back seat driving the justice system on the internet is something only special snowflakes do.

Are you a special snowflake?

Ah hello? Are you a special snowflake?
This is a debate sight. We have enough information to debate what I presented.

He took his own life and they charged her because she bullied him.

As I presented this, it was his faulty reasoning that lead to his taking his life, not someone being a bully.
Do you have anything to argue against that? If not, push on.

 

[Moot]

A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter.


A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. ​

This is just wrong.
His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully.

I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.


This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop.

Bullying is akin to gaslighting...so it is entirely possible that she bullied the boy to suicide.

This notion that everything happens in a vacuum needs to stop.

 

[Excon]

Bullying is akin to gaslighting...so it is entirely possible that she bullied the boy to suicide.

No.

His reasoning led to his suicide.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

There is definitely blame to go around for bullying.

The majority who are bullied do not take their own life, those who do have faulty reasoning. That is the point I am trying to make.
No one should be held responsible for the faulty thinking of another.

---

Ah hello? Are you a special snowflake?
This is a debate sight. We have enough information to debate what I presented.

He took his own life and they charged her because she bullied him.

As I presented this, it was his faulty reasoning that lead to his taking his life, not someone being a bully.
Do you have anything to argue against that? If not, push on.

Can't be sure of that, til a jury decides on the evidence. Best to wait and see how it plays out. Do you got something against the justice system? Mr. The police are always in the right. The Law is the Law. If there wasn't grounds, they wouldn't do it.

Seems you have a different outlook when the one in the hotseat is someone you can relate to.

 

[Captain Adverse]

In an unusual legal twist on an all-too-common sad story, Branham has been arrested after a prosecutor charged her with involuntary manslaughter.

Following the inquest, the jurors concluded the Dairy Queen “negligently failed to properly train employees about harassment prevention and resolution” and that the school district was “negligent in failing to prevent bullying.” Finally, they found Branham was the “primary actor” in the boy’s death.

On Wednesday, Wilson filed a second-degree involuntary manslaughter charge against Branham, KTVI reported. She was arrested by a Howard County sheriff’s deputy, the Columbia Daily Tribune reported.

[/INDENT]
A horribly bullied teen committed suicide. Now his former Dairy Queen boss has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. [/COLOR][/FONT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

This is just wrong. His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully. I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.

This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop.

565.027. Involuntary manslaughter, second degree, penalty. — 1. A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the second degree if he or she acts with criminal negligence to cause the death of any person. 2. The offense of involuntary manslaughter in the second degree is a class E felony.

Section: 565.0027 Involuntary manslaughter, second degree, penalty. RSMO 565.027

A person "acts with criminal negligence" or is criminally negligent when he or she fails to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that circumstances exist or a result will follow, and such failure constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation.

Section: 562.0016 Culpable mental state. RSMO 562.016

I think this would be a difficult case to successfully prosecute in criminal court, since it would require convincing a jury that extending the idea of criminal negligence from something like covering a hole with a piece of flimsy plywood and someone falling in and dying is equivalent to offending someone to the point where they choose to commit suicide. That awareness of this possibility should be a requirement for all citizens on pain of facing criminal prosecution.

It argues the presumption of the current alt-left ideology that giving personal offense is actually a tangible harm that should be recognized and avoided, at risk of criminal liability.

So anyone writing a suicide note alleging someone's social mistreatment led to their death (or attempted suicide); or witnesses alleging someone's actions may have done some will lead to criminal prosecution?

The only saving grace of a criminal trial if this occurs is that the burden of proof remains beyond a reasonable doubt.

The problem is that being found innocent of a criminal charge of Involuntary Manslaughter allows civil liability. That burden of proof is only preponderance of the evidence.

O.J. Simpson was found not guilty in criminal court but later found liable in a civil action. You see the results of that regardless of what side you were on in that case. This is what anyone would face with this kind of precedent...at least in Missouri.

I only hope that this case fails in criminal court. As for civil court? I also fear the precedent of a guilty determination for the threat it poses to individual liberty.

 

[cabse5]

On a side-note: can the, for example, perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacres in 1999 be excused and teachers and students of the school be accused of bullying the perps causing the deaths?

 

[Excon]

Can't be sure of that, til a jury decides on the evidence. Best to wait and see how it plays out. Do you got something against the justice system? Mr. The police are always in the right. The Law is the Law. If there wasn't grounds, they wouldn't do it.

Seems you have a different outlook when the one in the hotseat is someone you can relate to.

And again, we have enough information to argue or discuss what I presented.
All you are saying is that there is nothing here you want to discuss and instead want to absurdly make this personal and focus on me.
Stop with the bs and push on. You clearly having nothing to add to this and you clearly do not know of what you speak in regards to me.

 

[reinoe]

How long would any parent let his son be bullied by his employer?.

Recovering from an Obama economy? It's obvious the entire family needed the money.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

And again, we have enough information to argue or discuss what I presented.
All you are saying is that there is nothing here you want to discuss and instead want to absurdly make this personal and focus on me.
Stop with the bs and push on. You clearly having nothing to add to this and you clearly do not know of what you speak in regards to me.

I'm saying, we should let a jury decide. If the police didn't think she did something wrong, they wouldn't have arrested her. Something I learned from you. Always trust the law enforcement, every time. No matter what it looks like, what the witnesses say, what the video says, no matter what the majority of the population thinks. Trust Law Enforcement. You no longer believe that?

 

[Moot]

No.

His reasoning led to his suicide.

Well..if she was gaslighting and bullying him then he was probably incapable of reasoning.

"...Gaslighting is a technique of emotional and psychological manipulation. It is commonly seen in cases of domestic and workplace abuse, where the abuser deliberately attacks the victim psychologically over a period of time in order to make the victim doubt his or her own sense of reality and sanity....

The whole intention of gaslighting is to decrease someone’s self-esteem and self-confidence so they are unable to function in an independent manner. The person being gaslighted will eventually become so insecure that they will fail to trust their own judgment, their intuition and find themselves unable to make decisions...."

Gaslighting ? A Subtle Form of Manipulation​

That the investigation was able to narrow it down to one person would highly suggest that she drove him to it.

 

[Excon]

Well..if she was gaslighting and bullying him then he was probably incapable of reasoning.
[...]
That the investigation was able to narrow it down to one person would highly suggest that she drove him to it.

iLOL
No.

 

[Moot]

On a side-note: can the, for example, perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacres in 1999 be excused and teachers and students of the school be accused of bullying the perps causing the deaths?

Good question. But not sure how it compares though because the columbine perps were on a revenge trip and seemed to feed off each others rage rather than internalizing it enough to doubt their own self worth and reason for living by committing their own suicide.

 

[Excon]

I'm saying, we should let a jury decide.

And again.
This is a debate sight.
Also again. We have enough information to argue or discuss what I presented.

Something I learned from you. Always trust the law enforcement, every time. No matter what it looks like, what the witnesses say, what the video says, no matter what the majority of the population thinks. Trust Law Enforcement. You no longer believe that?

Besides you spewing nonsense and being dishonest, this is not about me. Stop the derailment and push on.

 

[Moot]

Section: 565.0027 Involuntary manslaughter, second degree, penalty. RSMO 565.027

Section: 562.0016 Culpable mental state. RSMO 562.016

I think this would be a difficult case to successfully prosecute in criminal court, since it would require convincing a jury that extending the idea of criminal negligence from something like covering a hole with a piece of flimsy plywood and someone falling in and dying is equivalent to offending someone to the point where they choose to commit suicide. That awareness of this possibility should be a requirement for all citizens on pain of facing criminal prosecution.

It argues the presumption of the current alt-left ideology that giving personal offense is actually a tangible harm that should be recognized and avoided, at risk of criminal liability.

So anyone writing a suicide note alleging someone's social mistreatment led to their death (or attempted suicide); or witnesses alleging someone's actions may have done some will lead to criminal prosecution?

The only saving grace of a criminal trial if this occurs is that the burden of proof remains beyond a reasonable doubt.

The problem is that being found innocent of a criminal charge of Involuntary Manslaughter allows civil liability. That burden of proof is only preponderance of the evidence.

O.J. Simpson was found not guilty in criminal court but later found liable in a civil action. You see the results of that regardless of what side you were on in that case. This is what anyone would face with this kind of precedent...at least in Missouri.

I only hope that this case fails in criminal court. As for civil court? I also fear the precedent of a guilty determination for the threat it poses to individual liberty.

They already convinced an inquest jury, that's why she was arrested. From the OP...

"...The Howard County coroner sought an official inquest into the teenager’s December death, a process similar to a grand jury investigation but public. Such investigations can be sought if a coroner believes a death could be related to a continuing safety and health hazard.....

She said jurors assembled to hear the case listened to more than six hours of testimony from nearly 20 witnesses before recommending the charge on Tuesday...."​

 

[Moot]

iLOL
No.

Um...yup. She must've been a real baddie for a jury to recommend charges of involuntary manslaughter.

 

[Excon]

Um...yup. She must've been a real baddie for a jury to recommend charges of involuntary manslaughter.

iLOL
No Moot.

Grand Jury - Easily swayed by emotion.

 

[Moot]

iLOL
No Moot.

Grand Jury - Easily swayed by emotion.

...and evidence (20 witnesses). I hope she finds a good lawyer cuz she's gonna need it.

 

[Excon]

...and evidence (20 witnesses). I hope she finds a good lawyer cuz she's gonna need it.

No Moot.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

And again.
This is a debate sight.
Also again. We have enough information to argue or discuss what I presented.


Besides you spewing nonsense and being dishonest, this is not about me. Stop the derailment and push on.

Based on the information you provided, it should be left to a jury.

AS for nonsense and dishonesty. Tell me you think that law enforcement is capable of making mistakes, and should be penalized for doing so, and I will apologize to you right here and now. Otherwise, we can both agree this woman should stand trial and face a jury.

 

[Captain Adverse]

They already convinced an inquest jury, that's why she was arrested. From the OP...

"...The Howard County coroner sought an official inquest into the teenager’s December death, a process similar to a grand jury investigation but public. Such investigations can be sought if a coroner believes a death could be related to a continuing safety and health hazard.....

She said jurors assembled to hear the case listened to more than six hours of testimony from nearly 20 witnesses before recommending the charge on Tuesday...."​

A coroner's inquest is not the same thing as a criminal judicial proceeding. :no:

The coroner's job is to determine cause of death for the issuance of a death certificate.

58.451. 1. When any person, in any county in which a coroner is required by section 58.010, dies and there is reasonable ground to believe that such person died as a result of: (1) Violence by homicide, suicide, or accident;...the coroner or deputy coroner shall take charge of the dead body and fully investigate the essential facts concerning the medical causes of death, including whether by the act of man, and the manner of death.

6. When the cause of death is established by the coroner, the coroner shall file a copy of the findings in the coroner's office within thirty days.

8. If on view of the dead body and after personal inquiry into the cause and manner of death, the coroner considers a further inquiry and examination necessary in the public interest, the coroner shall make out the coroner's warrant directed to the sheriff of the city or county requiring the sheriff forthwith to summon six good and lawful citizens of the county to appear before the coroner, at the time and place expressed in the warrant, and to inquire how and by whom the deceased died.

Section: 058.0451 Death to be reported and investigated by coroner, certain counties, when--place of death, two counties involved, how determined--efforts to accommodate organ donation. RSMO 58.451

Again, an inquest is not a judicial proceeding. There are no rules of judicial procedure; there is no determination of guilt or innocence.

The coroner leads a fact-finding investigation to determine the cause of death. The coroner's jury examines the body, views evidence relating to the death, questions witnesses, and arrives at a determination. If the determination is that the death occurred as the result of a crime, a death certificate is issued with that information as cause of death.

Then the issue is turned over to the proper police authority for investigation; and if the police investigation also supports a crime, to the Prosecutors office for consideration of legal action. That's all.

 

[Excon]

Based on the information you provided, it should be left to a jury.

iLOL
You are totally lost.
Again.

This is just wrong.
His faulty reasoning is the cause, not someone being a bully.

I hope the jury finds her not guilty as they should.

This thinking that someone else or an object has to be responsible for the deeds of another needs to stop. ​

Maybe you should look to Captain Adverse's post at #9, to get an idea of a great response?

Tell me you think that law enforcement is capable of making mistakes, and should be penalized for doing so, and I will apologize to you right here and now. Otherwise, we can both agree this woman should stand trial and face a jury.

As you were already told, this is not about me.
Your dishonesty is making a claim you can not support.
I do not need to tell you anything other than that, or anything about me.

So, are you done baiting and trying to make this personal, or do I have to report you?