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Non-Citizen Illegal Voting

Ganondagan said:
Yeah, it's my belief, that's why I posted it. What's the problem?
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The problem is that because this "study" says something you want to be true, you weren't skeptical of it. Hell, you didn't even read the study. Someone just told you this and you accepted their word.
 
Ganondagan said:
I see you didn't bother reading any part of my post. What a surprise.


OK, you've voiced you opinion. And?
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Based on the faults displayed in your source quotations...why would I?

Did the link work when you posted it? I doubt it. See, I trashed your source without even having to address their high degree of unreliability.
 
Deuce said:
The problem is that because this "study" says something you want to be true, you weren't skeptical of it. Hell, you didn't even read the study. Someone just told you this and you accepted their word.
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I read the study, there is nothing wrong with it.
 
Not this shit again.

There have been dozens of court cases about this that found it's not happening.
 
Ganondagan said:
Evidence?
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lol

1) I already posted the Snopes fact check. Again... Long story short, the sample size was so tiny that the conclusions cannot possibly be seen as valid. Cato Center, a hard right think tank, lays it out: "The CCES survey asked about 20,000 people how they voted and about 19,500 of them said that they were U.S. citizens. Since the CCES is about federal elections, it oversamples citizens who can vote and under sample non-citizens who can’t vote. In fact, the number of reported non-citizens in the CCES survey who said they voted in a federal election is just about exactly the number who should have misidentified themselves as non-citizens in such a large survey."

2) There's no actual evidence of non-citizens voting. Again, numerous states are highly motivated to find any form of fraud, meaning there's no way 2-5 million non-citizens could vote without getting detected, especially in Texas and Florida -- both run by Republicans, both with large non-citizen populations, both spending at least a decade looking for fraudulent non-citizen voters, and finding none. (See examples below.)

And since you asked, here's some links. Have fun reading 'em.

Cato Center article

Brennan Center study, finding only a handful of non-citizens voting in the 2016 election
www.brennancenter.org

Noncitizen Voting: The Missing Millions

Contrary to President Trump's claims, noncitizen voting in the 2016 election was exceedingly rare, according to this new analysis of information from local election administrators.
www.brennancenter.org www.brennancenter.org

2012 report skewering the claim that non-citizens vote

Who Can Vote? - A News21 2012 National Project

News21
votingrights.news21.com votingrights.news21.com

North Carolina audit report found a whopping 41 legal migrants, who had not yet become citizens, voting in the 2016 election

In 2022, Georgia detected a whopping 1,634 potential non-citizens who attempted to register between 1997 and 2022. They found no evidence of any non-citizens actually voting. Although it's a crime for non-citizens to register to vote for federal elections in GA, I see no indication that anyone was charged, meaning that most (if not all) of those individuals probably were citizens.

I'm sure I can find more evidence, but let's see if you actually bother to accept what I've presented, rather than glibly reject it because it clashes with your pre-determined conclusions.
 
mrjurrs said:
Based on the faults displayed in your source quotations...why would I?

Did the link work when you posted it? I doubt it. See, I trashed your source without even having to address their high degree of unreliability.
Click to expand...

What link are you talikng about? There are a lot of links in that post.
Deuce said:
No, you didn't.
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Why don't you answer the question, what link are you talking about?
 
Visbek said:
lol

1) I already posted the Snopes fact check. Again... Long story short, the sample size was so tiny that the conclusions cannot possibly be seen as valid. Cato Center, a hard right think tank, lays it out: "The CCES survey asked about 20,000 people how they voted and about 19,500 of them said that they were U.S. citizens. Since the CCES is about federal elections, it oversamples citizens who can vote and under sample non-citizens who can’t vote. In fact, the number of reported non-citizens in the CCES survey who said they voted in a federal election is just about exactly the number who should have misidentified themselves as non-citizens in such a large survey."

2) There's no actual evidence of non-citizens voting. Again, numerous states are highly motivated to find any form of fraud, meaning there's no way 2-5 million non-citizens could vote without getting detected, especially in Texas and Florida -- both run by Republicans, both with large non-citizen populations, both spending at least a decade looking for fraudulent non-citizen voters, and finding none. (See examples below.)

And since you asked, here's some links. Have fun reading 'em.

Cato Center article

Brennan Center study, finding only a handful of non-citizens voting in the 2016 election
www.brennancenter.org

Noncitizen Voting: The Missing Millions

Contrary to President Trump's claims, noncitizen voting in the 2016 election was exceedingly rare, according to this new analysis of information from local election administrators.
www.brennancenter.org www.brennancenter.org

2012 report skewering the claim that non-citizens vote

Who Can Vote? - A News21 2012 National Project

News21
votingrights.news21.com votingrights.news21.com

North Carolina audit report found a whopping 41 legal migrants, who had not yet become citizens, voting in the 2016 election

In 2022, Georgia detected a whopping 1,634 potential non-citizens who attempted to register between 1997 and 2022. They found no evidence of any non-citizens actually voting. Although it's a crime for non-citizens to register to vote for federal elections in GA, I see no indication that anyone was charged, meaning that most (if not all) of those individuals probably were citizens.

I'm sure I can find more evidence, but let's see if you actually bother to accept what I've presented, rather than glibly reject it because it clashes with your pre-determined conclusions.
Click to expand...

Snopes fact check? Try using a legitimate source.
 
I'm a little surprised at how apathetic some of the lefties are to the idea of non-citizens voting. If there were evidence they were voting for Trump, would it change your opinion?
 
hooligan said:

Conclusions​

Our exploration of non-citizen voting in the 2008 presidential election found that most non-citizens did not register or vote in 2008, but some did. The proportion of non-citizens who voted was less than fifteen percent, but significantly greater than zero. Similarly in 2010 we found that more than three percent of non-citizens reported voting.
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Maybe you missed this in my post:
"The results of every election contain some level of fraud through illegal votes from non-citizens. The only question is does that level of illegal votes determine the election."
 
Ganondagan said:
This is consistent with my belief. The results of every election contain some level of fraud through illegal votes from non-citizens. The only question is does that level of illegal votes determine the election.

Study: 10% to 27% of Non-Citizens Are Illegally Registered to Vote
www.justfacts.com

Study: 10% to 27% of Non-Citizens Are Illegally Registered to Vote – Just Facts

Based on the latest data and an enhanced version of a stress-tested methodology from a scholarly journal, about 10% to 27% of non-citizen adults in the U.S. are now illegally registered to vote.
www.justfacts.com

Overview​

Based on the latest available data and an enhanced version of a stress-tested methodology from a scholarly journal, a new study by Just Facts has found that about 10% to 27% of non-citizen adults in the U.S. are now illegally registered to vote.

The U.S. Census recorded more than 19 million adult non-citizens living in the U.S. during 2022. Given their voter registration rates, this means that about two million to five million of them are illegally registered to vote. These figures are potentially high enough to overturn the will of the American people in major elections, including congressional seats and the presidency.

Background

In 2014, the academic journal Electoral Studies published a groundbreaking study by three scholars who estimated how frequently non-citizens were illegally voting. Based on data for the 2008 presidential and congressional elections, the study found that:
  • “roughly one quarter of non-citizens” in the U.S. “were likely registered to vote.”
  • “6.4% of non-citizens actually voted.”
  • 81.8% of them “reported voting for Barack Obama.”
  • illegal votes cast by non-citizens “likely” changed “important election outcomes” in favor of Democrats, “including Electoral College votes” and a “pivotal” U.S. Senate race that enabled Democrats to pass Obamacare.
The study’s voter registration rate was estimated with data from two key sources:
  1. A national survey in which 14.8% of non-citizens admitted that they were registered to vote.
  2. A database of registered voters that reveals what portion of the surveyed non-citizens “were in fact registered” even though “they claimed not to be registered.”

Potential Impacts​

In presidential elections, roughly half of non-citizens who are registered turn out to vote. Given that about 10% to 27% of them are currently registered, this means about 5% to 13% of them will illegally vote in the 2024 presidential and congressional elections.

The U.S. Census recorded a population of 19.7 million voting-age non-citizens in the U.S. during 2022. This is an absolute minimum because the Census doesn’t count masses of non-citizens who falsely claim to be citizens or don’t fill out Census surveys.

Also, the figure of 19.7 million doesn’t include multitudes of non-citizens who’ve entered since 2022. This includes people who legally immigrated, crossed the border illegally, or were allowed into the country under the Biden administration’s parole policies.

Based on the data above, roughly 1.0 million to 2.7 million non-citizens will illegally vote in the 2024 presidential and congressional elections unless stronger election integrity measures are implemented.
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Let me guess, and every single one is going to vote for the Democrats. Am I warm?
 
Ganondagan said:
Maybe you missed this in my post:
"The results of every election contain some level of fraud through illegal votes from non-citizens. The only question is does that level of illegal votes determine the election."
Click to expand...


No, I didn't miss it. It's just a stupid question, is all.
 
D_NATURED said:
I'm a little surprised at how apathetic some of the lefties are to the idea of non-citizens voting. If there were evidence they were voting for Trump, would it change your opinion?
Click to expand...


I'm not a "lefty", but non-citizens voting is a bad thing. The question becomes: How do you make sure it doesn't happen without unduly burdening citizen voters?

Right now, there is NO DATA that suggests it's a large enough problem to sway any federal elections - despite what "Just Facts" would like you to believe. So, any changes would be a fix in search of a problem.
 
Ganondagan said:
Maybe you missed this in my post:
"The results of every election contain some level of fraud through illegal votes from non-citizens. The only question is does that level of illegal votes determine the election."
Click to expand...
We didn't miss it, we also didn't miss the part of one million to two point seven million illegal votes. You forgot to mention that part too while you're defending your statement.
 
Ganondagan said:
Snopes fact check? Try using a legitimate source.
Click to expand...
:LOL:

Any excuse not to face facts, I see. Next time, try reading more than 4 words before responding. Unless, of course, you're not actually interested in debating the issue in good faith.
 
Ganondagan said:
This is consistent with my belief. The results of every election contain some level of fraud through illegal votes from non-citizens. The only question is does that level of illegal votes determine the election.

Study: 10% to 27% of Non-Citizens Are Illegally Registered to Vote
www.justfacts.com

Study: 10% to 27% of Non-Citizens Are Illegally Registered to Vote – Just Facts

Based on the latest data and an enhanced version of a stress-tested methodology from a scholarly journal, about 10% to 27% of non-citizen adults in the U.S. are now illegally registered to vote.
www.justfacts.com

Overview​

Based on the latest available data and an enhanced version of a stress-tested methodology from a scholarly journal, a new study by Just Facts has found that about 10% to 27% of non-citizen adults in the U.S. are now illegally registered to vote.

The U.S. Census recorded more than 19 million adult non-citizens living in the U.S. during 2022. Given their voter registration rates, this means that about two million to five million of them are illegally registered to vote. These figures are potentially high enough to overturn the will of the American people in major elections, including congressional seats and the presidency.

Background

In 2014, the academic journal Electoral Studies published a groundbreaking study by three scholars who estimated how frequently non-citizens were illegally voting. Based on data for the 2008 presidential and congressional elections, the study found that:
  • “roughly one quarter of non-citizens” in the U.S. “were likely registered to vote.”
  • “6.4% of non-citizens actually voted.”
  • 81.8% of them “reported voting for Barack Obama.”
  • illegal votes cast by non-citizens “likely” changed “important election outcomes” in favor of Democrats, “including Electoral College votes” and a “pivotal” U.S. Senate race that enabled Democrats to pass Obamacare.
The study’s voter registration rate was estimated with data from two key sources:
  1. A national survey in which 14.8% of non-citizens admitted that they were registered to vote.
  2. A database of registered voters that reveals what portion of the surveyed non-citizens “were in fact registered” even though “they claimed not to be registered.”

Potential Impacts​

In presidential elections, roughly half of non-citizens who are registered turn out to vote. Given that about 10% to 27% of them are currently registered, this means about 5% to 13% of them will illegally vote in the 2024 presidential and congressional elections.

The U.S. Census recorded a population of 19.7 million voting-age non-citizens in the U.S. during 2022. This is an absolute minimum because the Census doesn’t count masses of non-citizens who falsely claim to be citizens or don’t fill out Census surveys.

Also, the figure of 19.7 million doesn’t include multitudes of non-citizens who’ve entered since 2022. This includes people who legally immigrated, crossed the border illegally, or were allowed into the country under the Biden administration’s parole policies.

Based on the data above, roughly 1.0 million to 2.7 million non-citizens will illegally vote in the 2024 presidential and congressional elections unless stronger election integrity measures are implemented.
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More reich-wing project 2025 scare tactics.
 
Linc said:
More reich-wing project 2025 scare tactics.
Click to expand...


Speaking of, JD shouted out the MI GOP chairman, who just happens to be one of the authors of P2025 today at his rally in MI. Said they see each other "once a week".

So much for Trump saying "don't know anything about it".
 
Visbek said:
:LOL:

Any excuse not to face facts, I see. Next time, try reading more than 4 words before responding. Unless, of course, you're not actually interested in debating the issue in good faith.
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I'm not interested in what leftists consider legitimate and non-legtimate sources, if that's that's what you mean
 
Ganondagan said:
I'm not interested in what leftists consider legitimate and non-legtimate sources, if that's that's what you mean
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:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Hello? You asked me for evidence, and I provided it. You are so intent on not exposing yourself to evidence contrary to your opinion, that you didn't even notice that I cited Cato, a right-wing think tank; the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia; and the bipartisan North Carolina State Board of Elections.

Thanks for proving that you're acting in bad faith.
 
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