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No holiday for GM workers

ddoyle00

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"DETROIT - General Motors Corp., pounded by declining sales and rising health care costs, said Monday it will cut more than a quarter of its North American manufacturing jobs and close 12 facilities by 2008. The United Auto Workers called the plan "devastating" and warned it will make negotiations more difficult, but some Wall Street analysts said GM's actions may not go far enough."

"To get production in line with demand, GM will cut 30,000 jobs and will close nine assembly, stamping and powertrain plants and three parts facilities. The job cuts represent 27 percent of GM's hourly jobs and about 17 percent of its overall North American work force of 173,000."-Yahoo News, 21/Nov/05


Maybe they shouldnt make an entry-level truck $28,000. Seriously though, I remember reading that an average of $1200 of a vehicle's price goes to cover the healthcare of a union worker. The Union reps can call this action anything they like, but they might want to consider the word "unemployed"
I think its time for the unions to dissolve or at least consider giving up some ground. When they won for their workers to have healthcare, all they really won was the right for the companies to pass the loss on to us. Now look, 25% of its work force expected to disappear and GM's stock has gone up .13 cents.
 

alienken

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ddoyle00 said:
"


Maybe they shouldnt make an entry-level truck $28,000. Seriously though, I remember reading that an average of $1200 of a vehicle's price goes to cover the healthcare of a union worker. The Union reps can call this action anything they like, but they might want to consider the word "unemployed"
I think its time for the unions to dissolve or at least consider giving up some ground. When they won for their workers to have healthcare, all they really won was the right for the companies to pass the loss on to us. Now look, 25% of its work force expected to disappear and GM's stock has gone up .13 cents.
i heard the price of health care per vehicle cost as much as the steel and material used to build each vehicle. The unions cause alot of trouble in our economy.
 

BWG

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So, we take away health care and now that entry level truck costs $26,800. Will that bring back enough customers to keep GM from cutting jobs?

If you take away their (earned) medical benefits you would have 30,000 MORE Americans without healthcare, who will then have to rely on the taxpayers to pay out more when they have to use the emergency room for their clinic.

I know, is it better losing benefits, than being unemployed? Probably, but why is it the workers who always have to make the sacrifice? They negotiated with management for pay and benefits. Why should workers have to cut their wages and benefits while prices of everything rise? Are we expanding the class of working poor? You think that maybe management may have had a hand in the mis-management of the company? Did they take the fall?

I see a lot of people in this forum complaining about welfare, well here are 30,000 (+ their families) more candidates, who were former productive working Americans.
 

Stu Ghatze

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ddoyle00 said:
"DETROIT - General Motors Corp., pounded by declining sales and rising health care costs, said Monday it will cut more than a quarter of its North American manufacturing jobs and close 12 facilities by 2008. The United Auto Workers called the plan "devastating" and warned it will make negotiations more difficult, but some Wall Street analysts said GM's actions may not go far enough."

"To get production in line with demand, GM will cut 30,000 jobs and will close nine assembly, stamping and powertrain plants and three parts facilities. The job cuts represent 27 percent of GM's hourly jobs and about 17 percent of its overall North American work force of 173,000."-Yahoo News, 21/Nov/05


Maybe they shouldnt make an entry-level truck $28,000. Seriously though, I remember reading that an average of $1200 of a vehicle's price goes to cover the healthcare of a union worker. The Union reps can call this action anything they like, but they might want to consider the word "unemployed"
I think its time for the unions to dissolve or at least consider giving up some ground. When they won for their workers to have healthcare, all they really won was the right for the companies to pass the loss on to us. Now look, 25% of its work force expected to disappear and GM's stock has gone up .13 cents.






Who cares, ...most union auto workers are WAY overpayed, & underworked anyway.

The employees ought to consider themselves "lucky" that GM was so willing to overpay, & over compensate them for so long, ..& put the risk of GM's own economic health below the wants of the socialistic auto workers union that thinks it should have the right to tell the EMPLOYERS what to do!

The laid off emloyees don't like it, ..too bad. They can always invest their capital, risk their wealth & time, & start THEIR own business venture, & be subject to paying high wages, & union demands! ;)
 

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It's not the unions fault......it’s Chinas fault and foreign countries try making some car's cheaper...we need tariff’s on imports to jump start our economy again...if GM and Ford move outside the country to make car's we will have a problem...b/c the factories during war make tanks and plane parts and gun parts....so we would need them for war purposes and for the economy...this is bad for the economy
 

Calm2Chaos

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BWG said:
So, we take away health care and now that entry level truck costs $26,800. Will that bring back enough customers to keep GM from cutting jobs?

If you take away their (earned) medical benefits you would have 30,000 MORE Americans without healthcare, who will then have to rely on the taxpayers to pay out more when they have to use the emergency room for their clinic.

I know, is it better losing benefits, than being unemployed? Probably, but why is it the workers who always have to make the sacrifice? They negotiated with management for pay and benefits. Why should workers have to cut their wages and benefits while prices of everything rise? Are we expanding the class of working poor? You think that maybe management may have had a hand in the mis-management of the company? Did they take the fall?

I see a lot of people in this forum complaining about welfare, well here are 30,000 (+ their families) more candidates, who were former productive working Americans.
And they can thank there union for that IMO
 

Calm2Chaos

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Loxd4 said:
It's not the unions fault......it’s Chinas fault and foreign countries try making some car's cheaper...we need tariff’s on imports to jump start our economy again...if GM and Ford move outside the country to make car's we will have a problem...b/c the factories during war make tanks and plane parts and gun parts....so we would need them for war purposes and for the economy...this is bad for the economy

With a base pay of about $56,000 this is what happens. It most definetly is the unions fault. Maybe not completely but a large chunk of it
 

shuamort

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U.S. light-vehicle sales for July were the highest of any month in history.

Automotive News reported record-breaking U.S. auto sales for July:

Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler group joined General Motors in selling vehicles below dealer cost. Sales of Ford's North American brands jumped 30.5 percent over last year....In the second month of the GM Employee Discount for Everyone, sales of GM's North American brands climbed 14.7 percent. In June, the kickoff month, GM posted a gain of 46.7 percent....

GM's cars were down 5.4 percent, and its trucks were up 27.6 percent; Ford Motor's cars were up 22.0 percent, and its trucks were up 33.6 percent; the Chrysler group's cars were up 5.8 percent, and its trucks were up 34.2 percent....

The other Big 3-- Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc., American Honda Motor Co. Inc. and Nissan North America Inc.-- also did well in July, with a combined sales upswing of 10.3 percent.

And in a separate story:

For many dealers, the Big 3's decision to extend employee-discount-for-all deals on 2005 models won't mean much.

The reason? After the discounts set summer sales ablaze, there aren't many 2005 vehicles left.

Chevrolet dealer Edgar McGraw normally has 120 vehicles from the outgoing model year on his Camden, Ala., lot in early August. This year he has fewer than 20, he says.

I guess Detroit can still sell plenty of cars as long as they don't want to make a profit.
And it's not just GM laying off folk. Here comes Ford.
Ford announced on Friday that it will be reducing its white-collar workforce by 4,000 in the first quarter of 2006. Those losing their jobs, in large part through involuntary layoffs, will include salaried and contract workers as well as those hired through employment agencies. The full cost-cutting plan will not be revealed until a new "Way Forward" restructuring program is rolled out in January, meaning those about to lose their jobs will not be informed right away.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Maybe $27.00 bucks an hour is a bit much for entry level. Would seem the UAW shot itself in the foot all over the place
 

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It just goes to show, your job is never secure. The best way to keep your job is to work hard and be an asset to the company, but even then, your job is still never secure. You pretty much have to be ready to adapt to the ever changing economy in order to survive in it. Offer people what they want and meet their needs.
 

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Not long ago GM and the UAW reached a deal to cut $1 billion from its retiree healthcare benefit programs.
Didn't GM sign a contract with the UAW in the first place and now they don't want to live up to their end of the deal.

The union has made concessions. What's wrong with trying to make a livable wage? You gripe when people are lazy, unemployed and on welfare. You gripe when people try to provide their family with a decent living.

Ford announced on Friday that it will be reducing its white-collar workforce by 4,000 in the first quarter of 2006.

I guess that's the unions fault too. :(
 

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In a lot of ways GM is suffering because our health care industry has all of washington in their pockets.
 

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So, how many posters here drive foreign cars? I have never owned one, nor will I ever. If it comes down to American brands being made overseas, I will just quit buying new ones. Actually, I pretty much have already done that. I can keep an old car (79) running a lot easier than a new car. The 2000 Impala and the 2002 Silverado will just have to last until I can find the old Dodge truck that I want, and I will restore that as I have the 79 Plymouth.

Union workers made unrealistic wage and benefit demands and it is costing them. Life goes on. One of my former co-workers ended up in the military when GM shut down a plant in his town in Ohio, and that was a long time ago. His GM coworkers all said no to concessions, so the plant closed and they lost their jobs. He left town to join the military, get some training, and moved on. Many of his friends just stayed there hoping that the plant would reopen.
That is what a lot of the younger ones will do with this occurrence. The older ones will have it a bit harder. And some will sit around and wait for the plants to reopen.
There will be more of this kind of thing. I am glad to be retired and away from it.
 

Calm2Chaos

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scottyz said:
In a lot of ways GM is suffering because our health care industry has all of washington in their pockets.
GM is suffering because the union... Thats there problem
 

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UtahBill said:
So, how many posters here drive foreign cars? I have never owned one, nor will I ever.
What do you mean by "foreign car"? I drive an Altima, got a new one on the way. Both built in Canton MS. The plant there employees several thousands people, it also supports several hundreds of business which in turn employ several thousands of people. I know because I sell to them and to Hyundai and to Honda and Mecedes and soon to Kia. All of which are or will soon be manufacturing cars here in the South. There is an economic BOOM going on in the auto industry in the US, it's just not up in the heavy union states. Yes there has been some hurt when Delphi closed plants down here. But do you seriously believe you can pay someone to sit at a workbench and insert a headlight into a socket $27/hour plus that again in benefits?

Most of the people working in the NON_UNION plants down here came from unionized plants, textiles, woodproducts, paper. They want nothing to do with unions again. They like where they work and the way they are treated WITHOUT a union.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
GM is suffering because the union... Thats there problem
In a nutshell that's it. Not only the wages they must pay but what they get in return for it.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
GM is suffering because the union... Thats there problem
It's not even close to that simple.
 

Calm2Chaos

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scottyz said:
It's not even close to that simple.
Ya .. it really is.

I have no doubt there are midigating circumstances also. But the root cause I definetly think comes down to the unions. And now there members are going to have a welfare christmas. Maybe 27 bux is to much to sweep a floor
 

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Stinger said:
What do you mean by "foreign car"? I drive an Altima, got a new one on the way. Both built in Canton MS. The plant there employees several thousands people, it also supports several hundreds of business which in turn employ several thousands of people. I know because I sell to them and to Hyundai and to Honda and Mecedes and soon to Kia. All of which are or will soon be manufacturing cars here in the South. There is an economic BOOM going on in the auto industry in the US, it's just not up in the heavy union states. Yes there has been some hurt when Delphi closed plants down here. But do you seriously believe you can pay someone to sit at a workbench and insert a headlight into a socket $27/hour plus that again in benefits?

Most of the people working in the NON_UNION plants down here came from unionized plants, textiles, woodproducts, paper. They want nothing to do with unions again. They like where they work and the way they are treated WITHOUT a union.
Yeah, I know that most "foreign" cars are made here now, but the profits still go to another country.
As for unions, my father was a union worker most of his life, but finally saw too much of the dark side of it. He even became a Republican in his later years. He was a skilled machinist and made less than the Detroit assembly line workers. Kind of funny, as his dad was a life long Republican, too bad grandpa didn't live long enough to see his son switch political parties.
I experienced 2 shipyards while in the navy, one in Bremerton, WA and one in Japan. If I was the one paying the bills, I would choose Japan any day of the week. The American workers had all kinds of rules that kept the work from getting done. The Japanese just went in and did it, and a carton of cigarettes would get minor changes made that American workers wouldn't even consider without an additional ton of money.
 

Calm2Chaos

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UtahBill said:
Yeah, I know that most "foreign" cars are made here now, but the profits still go to another country.
As for unions, my father was a union worker most of his life, but finally saw too much of the dark side of it. He even became a Republican in his later years. He was a skilled machinist and made less than the Detroit assembly line workers. Kind of funny, as his dad was a life long Republican, too bad grandpa didn't live long enough to see his son switch political parties.
I experienced 2 shipyards while in the navy, one in Bremerton, WA and one in Japan. If I was the one paying the bills, I would choose Japan any day of the week. The American workers had all kinds of rules that kept the work from getting done. The Japanese just went in and did it, and a carton of cigarettes would get minor changes made that American workers wouldn't even consider without an additional ton of money.
I think the unions need is very limited in todays economy and job cycle.

I live in Philly, the unions here keep businesses and business out all the time. Conventions, trade shows, concert etc etc.. It's to much of a hassle to deal with them. So the 5th largest city in the country gets left off a lot of playbills
 

cnredd

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Calm2Chaos said:
I think the unions need is very limited in todays economy and job cycle.

I live in Philly, the unions here keep businesses and business out all the time. Conventions, trade shows, concert etc etc.. It's to much of a hassle to deal with them. So the 5th largest city in the country gets left off a lot of playbills
The SECOND I read "I live in Philly, the unions here keep businesses and business out all the time.", the first thing I thought was "Convention Center".

The Electrical & Carpenter's unions have destroyed that place!...They even had TV shows(Jeopardy & Wheel of Fortune) say they're never coming back here...

A guy I know worked there...Electrician...For working July 4th, he got double-time...changed 2 light bulbs and read the paper...:shock:
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
I think the unions need is very limited in todays economy and job cycle.
Unions were definitely necessary back in the bad old days of robber barons and unsafe working conditions, but unless they start doing a better job looking out for their members, unions will disappear.
I worked once in a right to work state, and we had both union and non-union doing similar jobs, altho the titles were different. I finally convinced one union guy to apply for a job "on the dark side" by pointing out to him that he was getting the same pay as an older guy who had retired in place, and a younger one who knew almost nothing. He was sharp, and by clinging to a union job was hurting himself financially. Unions protect the status quo, and the average, or below average, worker. That can't be good for anybody.
 

UtahBill

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cnredd said:
The SECOND I read "I live in Philly, the unions here keep businesses and business out all the time.", the first thing I thought was "Convention Center".

The Electrical & Carpenter's unions have destroyed that place!...They even had TV shows(Jeopardy & Wheel of Fortune) say they're never coming back here...

A guy I know worked there...Electrician...For working July 4th, he got double-time...changed 2 light bulbs and read the paper...:shock:
According to the rules, working on a holiday does rate double time, but his boss should have found more work for him to do. Lazy management is as much to blame as the Union.
 

Calm2Chaos

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UtahBill said:
According to the rules, working on a holiday does rate double time, but his boss should have found more work for him to do. Lazy management is as much to blame as the Union.
Double time for how much is the key.... They are choking the life from an entire city, and have no problem with doing it. A NEW state of the art convention center in a large city lays empty. Because people just are not willing to deal with the unions. I can change a lightbulb on my own. Why do I need to pay a guy 60 bux an hour to sit there and do it for me. Unions are riduculous and today they seem to becoming pointless
 

Calm2Chaos

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cnredd said:
The SECOND I read "I live in Philly, the unions here keep businesses and business out all the time.", the first thing I thought was "Convention Center".

The Electrical & Carpenter's unions have destroyed that place!...They even had TV shows(Jeopardy & Wheel of Fortune) say they're never coming back here...

A guy I know worked there...Electrician...For working July 4th, he got double-time...changed 2 light bulbs and read the paper...:shock:
Hell the real world left, they had to eg them to come back and tape the show here.
 
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