No Europe doesnt need Americas military shield.

[Aunt Spiker]

Aunt Spiker, I have read that the thing about the US cutting back on their nukes is a deception. They may be cutting back on something but something else will be doing the same thing. I have a poor memory, but definitely read it is a deception.

Well - 3 things:

#1 - who says it's a deception? Surely it's easy for anyone to claim deception in this situation because:
#2 - the status of our nuclear dismantling process is partially classified because:
#3 - it's foolish and ignorant to let your nuclear-weaponed enemies know for certain you can't retaliate against them.

So - I believe they're actually culling the nuclear herd. . . and I have just as much reason or proof of that as does someone who claims it's deception. Because of the condition and nature of the issue in it's entirety there's no way to prove one thing or another.

Regardless - how many nukes does one need, anyway? Culling the herd doesn't mean we're getting rid of every single last one. So - it's one thing to be dwindling the numbers but that's far different than getting rid of all of them.

 

[alexa]

Well - 3 things:

#1 - who says it's a deception? Surely it's easy for anyone to claim deception in this situation because:
#2 - the status of our nuclear dismantling process is partially classified because:
#3 - it's foolish and ignorant to let your nuclear-weaponed enemies know for certain you can't retaliate against them.

So - I believe they're actually culling the nuclear herd. . . and I have just as much reason or proof of that as does someone who claims it's deception. Because of the condition and nature of the issue in it's entirety there's no way to prove one thing or another.

Regardless - how many nukes does one need, anyway? Culling the herd doesn't mean we're getting rid of every single last one. So - it's one thing to be dwindling the numbers but that's far different than getting rid of all of them.

I think it was an article I read in the Guardian, Like I said I have a terrible memory and don't feel like chasing it up to read. But I did read it and it was strong, so I am just saying I will be keeping my eyes out. If I come upon it again - 2 or three months from now, will take better note.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I think it was an article I read in the Guardian, Like I said I have a terrible memory and don't feel like chasing it up to read. But I did read it and it was strong, so I am just saying I will be keeping my eyes out. If I come upon it again - 2 or three months from now, will take better note.

Yeah, I've read conflicting stories for all sorts of issues - it depends on who writes it, why they wrote it, and who they talked to for information.

 

[bennyhill]

if the Russians belive that America is scaling down, then thats good enough for me.

 

[German guy]

The problems Europe will be facing in a few decades are not those that can really be helped by our American military.

What problems do you think that are?

 

[German guy]

I feel the american security shield is a drug that fosters european dependence on big brother.

Maybe that's true. But I see the problem more on side of us addicted Europeans, than on the side of the US. We have public opinions that are opposed to our military and military expenditures. We rather spend the money on bloated bureaucracies and welfare redistribution. Quite a few Americans are rather critical of that, for good reason, and question why they should spend all their money on defending us Europeans, who live a happy comfortable life and use all this money for having big parties. Add on top of that that whenever the US use their military, which also protects our interests, we wag the finger at the Americans telling them how evil they are.

Europe must be strong enough to go it alone without America.

I agree. But this will cost something.

This forced dependency upon Europe must be abolished.

I don't think America is forcing anything on us. On the contrary. We have more benefits than disadvantages from this arrangement. We are freeriders on America's defense.

I favor the french president De Gaule wish for an independ Europe, free from American-Russian influence. We have all the resources we need to become independent, but as long as we are living from American handouts, we are too lazy to go it alone. We must pull ourselfs up by our own bootstraps and provide for our own defense. This is necessary, otherwise we wont be taken seriously as an actor on the international scene. Yes we can, but will we?

Yes, that's the question. Now the German government is debating to reduce the military by another 40,000 soldiers and to abolish draft. Doesn't look like we will for the time being.

 

[paris]

What problems do you think that are?

Hello German guy. You must be relatively new here. You will learn in time that no matter what topic is being discussed, some posters will always vent their fear of Islam. You will also learn who they are...

Welcome!

 

[German guy]

The Balts are direct under the US shield if Im correctly informed?

Yes. But if it gets tough, will Americans really be ready to die for them? Maybe. And in your scenario, with the US gone, will we Europeans? I am not sure we have the balls to act tough when needed.

You might not like Russia but there far more trust worthy than Iran or North Korea. They abide by every international contract they sign. Since 1800 they havent invaded a european country. They have been attacked many times and have used eastern europe as a buffer zone, but they didnt invade hungry to keep it. Eastern europe was a product of the colld war not an act of aggression as I see it. Yes Russia sent troops into Georgia, but those are complex issues difficult for outsiders to understand. We should look into the furture and the Russians have no ambitions to make there country larger by force. They can achieve the same goals through friendship treaties like they just did in the Ukraine. I think that we have a golden opertunity to embrace Russia as a partner/ compeditor but not an enemy. The latter is far cheaper an in my view sane.

This may all be true. But international relations hardly is a matter of trust. The only hard currency are capabilities. Trust may be a vital ingredient, but hardly a decisive one in case of crisis.

Also, you should take some time to read essays and strategy papers by people from the Russian leading military circle. Looks like they place much less trust in us and the US than you place in them. For some of them, it looks like we (or especially the US) are encircling them, damaging and containing their vital interests whereever possible and possibly even a first strike against Russia is not an unthinkable scenario for them. Russian involvement in Georgia, Ukraine and central Asia is considered just a defensive reaction on Western aggression for them.

No matter how much merit is in this view, and no matter what we may think of that, it's a sad hard fact that many Russians see it this way.

For any old cold war soilders, your nukes on Russia is your trumph card, so what do you have to lose with seeing Russia with a positive but pragmatic view?

France and Britain hardly have second strike capacities against Russia. And their arsenal is very limited. It may give a certain protection by deterrence, but hardly the same degree the excessive US arsenal provides.

 

[German guy]

Hello German guy. You must be relatively new here. You will learn in time that no matter what topic is being discussed, some posters will always vent their fear of Islam. You will also learn who they are...

Welcome!

Bonjour monsieur! C'est une plaisir de faire votre connaissance!

Yeah, I've met a few people here already compared to whom Geert Wilders looks like a proponent of appeasement, who seem to have read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion but misread Jews for Muslims, and who probably won't be happy until we see a Final Solution of the Muslim question.

Merci pour l'avertissement!