• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

New Poll For Military

Which Option is Best?

  • Institute a FULL military draft to include ALL segments of society, from rich to poor.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Completely and totally abolish the military altogether where nobody serves

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Vets of volunteer military who have seen direct combat get more benefits and more political power.

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9
TimmyBoy said:
It seems rather obvious that we are in Iraq, not for democracy, but for oil.

Oh, that explains the low price of oil on the global market and our fifty cent a gallon gas. :roll:

BTW, we had absolutely no business going into Bosnia. If the French, the Germans, the Brits, and the Italians were all bothered by it, they didn't need us. There was no American national interests at stake there. None, nada, zip, zilch, zero.
 
TimmyBoy said:
If I was today's military, I would be trying to negotiate a better deal from the American people and the US government. If they don't give me the fair deal I want, then I would go on strike and tell the US government, they better figuire something out real quick which is acceptable and fair to the military if they don't want to leave this country open to attack too long. I would want increased political power and a guaranteed opportunity at the nation's best schools in any field of study I want. Or we can go back to a draft or abolish the military.

I think I understand now.

You think that blackmail is the right way to accomplish things. You think that just because someone serves in the military, they are automatically better than everyone else.

People like you are the best argument I can think of against a mandatory draft. At least with a volunteer army, most people like you won't join. They can just sit back and whine and think that they are superior to everyone else.
 
TimmyBoy said:
No, I just want a free, democratic society.

Then you had better move. You live in a republic, not a democracy.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Look man, you can go on your rants, but September 11 happenned because America had it coming to them.

We did? Saudi Arabia permits the United States to maintain troops on it's soil and a Saudi Loon takes offense, not with his family but with the United States? And instead of waging war on the US military, the cowardly loon attacks a couple of buildings in a craven sneak attack, and you claim we deserve this?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious why you were a pecker checker and not a soldier.
 
TimmyBoy said:
The all volunteer military has served YOU well.

It has served me quite well, also.

You seem to be nothing more than a disgruntled whiner who thinks that he should have everything handed to him on a silver platter.
 
MrFungus420 said:
I think I understand now.

You think that blackmail is the right way to accomplish things. You think that just because someone serves in the military, they are automatically better than everyone else.

People like you are the best argument I can think of against a mandatory draft. At least with a volunteer army, most people like you won't join. They can just sit back and whine and think that they are superior to everyone else.


You do realize, don't you, that no one that served in the Bosnia show was drafted? Our Timmy volunteered, then found out he was stuck, and now he's crying about it.

As far as I can tell, the only one responding to this poll that didn't serve in the military is Kelzie, and her input was basically to pound on someone with the Great Hammer of Moderation.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Good for you Benedict Arnold served in the military too. Thomas Jefferson didn't, which one do you consider to be the greater patriot? Military service is not a litmus test for patriotism as you yourself have clearly proven. You can serve in the military and still be a traitor which, due to your: "America got what it deserved on 9-11," statement, you clearly are. P.S. I know a couple of marines who would love to get their hands on you, you ****ing traitor.

Ohh, I am not a patriot. I am an opportunist though. The difference between me and Bendict Arnold is that I don't plan to get involved fighting another war or to be apart of the political process. I will stay out of the fighting and the politics. I am also open and honest, genuine, Bendict Arnold was not. I never pretended to be a patriot like Benedict Arnold did. That doesn't mean I don't have principles, because I do. I just think that patriotism is a sham.

Getting involved in the military or the political process will only invite trouble on yourself, or you will have to sell your soul to the devil. Making threats is not advisable on the internet. Anything you say or write on the forum can and will be used against you in the court of law. It is not so smart to post such threats. Especially to a former police officer.
 
I have my integrity and I am going to always tell it the way it really is. Sometimes that requires to say things that people are not ready to accept, but I will maintain the truth. You ask me if I am a patriot and I tell you no. I am not a patriot. The government has no loyalty to you or the American people, it is out for itself. Why would have any loyalty to American foreign policy or a society that has no loyalty to others? I do have a select few friends that I trust, but not very many. I do have principles, it's just that my principles and the principles of the system don't agree. Acting as accomplices to genocide, committing terrorist acts overseas without the American people knowing about them and then invading countries for oil, doesn't fit into my principles.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Ohh, I am not a patriot. I am an opportunist though. The difference between me and Bendict Arnold is that I don't plan to get involved fighting another war or to be apart of the political process. I will stay out of the fighting and the politics. I am also open and honest, genuine, Bendict Arnold was not. I never pretended to be a patriot like Benedict Arnold did. That doesn't mean I don't have principles, because I do. I just think that patriotism is a sham.

Getting involved in the military or the political process will only invite trouble on yourself, or you will have to sell your soul to the devil. Making threats is not advisable on the internet. Anything you say or write on the forum can and will be used against you in the court of law. It is not so smart to post such threats. Especially to a former police officer.


I didn't threaten you but I do know a few people who would love to kick your ass though. Oh, and you're a discrace to the military, the police force, and this country.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I didn't threaten you but I do know a few people who would love to kick your ass though. Oh, and you're a discrace to the military, the police force, and this country.

Heh heh heh. Ohh well, sue me. Tell your friends to be careful about what they say, they can find themselves in trouble for talking too much. Running your mouth too much doesn't just apply to me, it also applies to your friends. I would hate to have you sitting in a witness stand having to testify against your own friends who made the wrong statements (believe me, cops get worked over all the time and end up having to testify against their best friends). Or having to pull up the statements you made on the forum to show that a threat from your friends were made. I am not out to get anybody locked up or in trouble, but it's just some good advice from me to your friends. I will pretend I never heard what you said and forget about it. I don't have anything against your friends. It's just I don't trust the system.
 
Gee, you know and here I was thinking that all these patriotic Americans would support my idea of a draft or giving more political power to soldiers who risk their lives in a volunteer Army.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Gee, you know and here I was thinking that all these patriotic Americans would support my idea of a draft or giving more political power to soldiers who risk their lives in a volunteer Army.

Why would you expect people to support such a patently unfair proposal?

Why would you expect people to support the draft when a volunteer army is far more fair and effective?

Why would you expect people to agree with your ******* and moaning?
 
MrFungus420 said:
Why would you expect people to support such a patently unfair proposal?

Why would you expect people to support the draft when a volunteer army is far more fair and effective?

Why would you expect people to agree with your ******* and moaning?

My proposals are fair and that is precisely the reason you oppose it. It is also a better deal for the military if it were to remain all volunteer or to society if chose not to have an all volunteer military. But the opposition to my fair proposals demonstrate that their is no real patriotism and that the concept of patriotism is a sham.
 
It also demonstrates the injustice that is inherit in our society.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Gee, you know and here I was thinking that all these patriotic Americans would support my idea of a draft or giving more political power to soldiers who risk their lives in a volunteer Army.

Why support a stupid idea... It's a volunteer army. Nobody is forcing you to join and or participate at all. I don't understand why we should comence a nationwide mandatory draft....
 
Look what the draft did to soldiers in Vietnam. You had men there that didn't want to be there. Actually, they wanted to be with their hippie friends and listen to retards like Abbie Hoffman while listening to Cat Stevens and smoking pot.... God damn hippies!!!!!!!!!!!
 
TimmyBoy said:
My proposals are fair and that is precisely the reason you oppose it. It is also a better deal for the military if it were to remain all volunteer or to society if chose not to have an all volunteer military. But the opposition to my fair proposals demonstrate that their is no real patriotism and that the concept of patriotism is a sham.

In what way is it fair to give anyone any extra political power, it's profoundly against the concept of modern democracy.

Just what is the modern concept of patriotism? What is your definition of patriotism? And how is refusing to give any single group of people extra power / refusing to support a full military draft against it?
 
Plain old me said:
In what way is it fair to give anyone any extra political power, it's profoundly against the concept of modern democracy.

Just what is the modern concept of patriotism? What is your definition of patriotism? And how is refusing to give any single group of people extra power / refusing to support a full military draft against it?

Do you believe in patriotism?
 
Oh, and another thing, TimmyBoy. This nation was founded on with a volunteer militia. Ever see the movie "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson. Even George Washington was a volunteer. He didn't have to lead the militia. The Civil War was also fought with voluteer armies; on both sides.
 
Donkey1499 said:
Oh, and another thing, TimmyBoy. This nation was founded on with a volunteer militia. Ever see the movie "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson. Even George Washington was a volunteer. He didn't have to lead the militia. The Civil War was also fought with voluteer armies; on both sides.

Hmm, I could have sworn that their were draft riots during the Civil War in NYC. I could have also sworn that before the Civil War, Northeast New England states came close to suceeding from the union a few times. Wasn't the right to suceed also taught at West Point?
 
TimmyBoy said:
Hmm, I could have sworn that their were draft riots during the Civil War in NYC. I could have also sworn that before the Civil War, Northeast New England states came close to suceeding from the union a few times. Wasn't the right to suceed also taught at West Point?

Really? I didn't know that about the Civil War. I was just making assumptions. Excuse my FL edyoomuhkayshun... LOL
 
Donkey1499 said:
Really? I didn't know that about the Civil War. I was just making assumptions. Excuse my FL edyoomuhkayshun... LOL

Yeah, their were riots in NYC because of the draft. They would blame black people for the start of the draft during the Civil War and hang them. It was on such a massive scale, that it was a genocide of black people in NYC. Their was also several times before the Civil War when New England states almost suceeded from the Union. The right of states to suceed was taught at West Point as well.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Yeah, their were riots in NYC because of the draft. They would blame black people for the start of the draft during the Civil War and hang them. It was on such a massive scale, that it was a genocide of black people in NYC. Their was also several times before the Civil War when New England states almost suceeded from the Union. The right of states to suceed was taught at West Point as well.

There was a limited (and temporary) conscription during the Civil War at the order of President Lincoln. Here's the short version of the results which should give TimmyBoy some food for thought since he is so gung ho to reintroduce a universal draft:

"The nation is at this time in a state of Revolution, North, South, East, and West," wrote the Washington Times during the often violent protests that occurred after Abraham Lincoln issued the March 3, 1863, Enrollment Act of Conscription. Although demonstrations took place in many Northern cities, the riots that broke out in New York City were both the most violent and the most publicized.

With a large and powerful Democratic party operating in the city, a dramatic show of dissent had been long in the making. The state's popular governor, Democrat Horatio Seymour, openly despised Lincoln and his policies. In addition, the Enrollment Act shocked a population already tired of the two-year-old war.

By the time the names of the first draftees were drawn in New York City on July 11, reports about the carnage of Gettysburg had been published in city papers. Lincoln's call for 300,000 more young men to fight a seemingly endless war frightened even those who supported the Union cause. Moreover, the Enrollment Act contained several exemptions, including the payment of a "commutation fee" that allowed wealthier and more influential citizens to buy their way out of service.

Perhaps no group was more resentful of these inequities than the Irish immigrants populating the slums of northeastern cities. Poor and more than a little prejudiced against blacks-with whom they were both unfamiliar and forced to compete for the lowest-paying jobs-the Irish in New York objected to fighting on their behalf.

On Sunday, June 12, the names of the draftees drawn the day before by the Provost Marshall were published in newspapers. Within hours, groups of irate citizens, many of them Irish immigrants, banded together across the city. Eventually numbering some 50,000 people, the mob terrorized neighborhoods on the East Side of New York for three days looting scores of stores. Blacks were the targets of most attacks on citizens; several lynchings and beatings occurred. In addition, a black church and orphanage were burned to the ground.

All in all, the mob caused more than $1.5 million of damage. The number killed or wounded during the riot is unknown, but estimates range from two dozen to nearly 100. Eventually, Lincoln deployed combat troops from the Federal Army of the Potomac to restore order; they remained encamped around the city for several weeks. In the end, the draft raised only about 150,000 troops throughout the North, about three-quarters of them substitutes, amounting to just one-fifth of the total Union force.
Source: The Civil War Society's "Encyclopedia of the Civil War"
 
Back
Top Bottom