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New photo released from night of shooting

Once again, you are ignorant and don't know what you're talking about. If the Zimmerman is going to put forth an affirmative defense, then that creates a burden of proof upon HIM. That means that he has to PROVE he was acting in self defense. No, don't argue about it. The fact that you don't know that shows that nothing more you might say on the matter can have any more relevance than a two year old giving instructions on how to play Candyland.
Wrong!

It places a burden of production on him. Not one of "proof".
And the evidence satisfies that burden.
The burden of "proof" rests on the prosecutions shoulders, and only the prosecutions shoulders.



Wrong.
This has already been discussed numerous times.
There is a burden to support the claim with evidence, known as the burden of production, not a burden of proof.
This evidence can even be produced through states' witnesses without Zimmerman taking the stand.

Code:
[B]UNDERSTANDING AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES[/B][SIZE=1]

[...]

[/SIZE][B]D. Burdens[/B]
The term “affirmative defense” seems inextricably tied to arguments about burden shifting.
Three different burdens exist; burden of proof (always on the government), burden of
production (normally on the defense), and burden of persuasion (normally back on the
government). The burden of proof to prove the essential elements of the crime charged
BRD starts with and ALWAYS stays with the Government. The burden of production to
generate an affirmative defense is on the defense. This is constitutional because the defense
is not negating an essential element of the crime charged. The standard, meaning the
quantum of evidence needed, varies with the particular affirmative defense. Generally it is
either by a preponderance, or by clear and convincing. Once the defense has met this burden
of producing an affirmative defense, the Government has the additional burden of
persuading the jury not just as to each element of the crime BRD, but also to persuade the
jury to reject the affirmative defense BRD as well.

[INDENT]I. Burden of Proof
Presenting an affirmative defense offers no relief to the government in what they
must prove. Patterson v. New York, 432 U.S. 197 (1977). Rather, if the defense
generates an affirmative defense, the government must then disprove the defense
generally beyond a reasonable doubt. Mullaney, 421 U.S. at 704; U.S. v. Jackson,
569 F.2d 1003, 1008 n.12 (7th Cir. 1978)(emphasis added).[/INDENT][SIZE=1]


[...]

[B]Google Doc[/B]
[url]https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:06-_HilumfEJ:www.fd.org/pdf_lib/beneman_affirmative_defenses_materials.pdf+affirmative+defense&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjQQ9DDIG6I9rtWnkdrvG4XMpf-h2KGVxjIf2cgCnXgnZ6rKrFrnVZwDO3Pw-YkvR4VQt6w8d4k7Jd6u3XiNVni3HwMVJaz2xJgZswMP-HkNfqJhwe5jZwla03YrbDJEf3LwZ9D&sig=AHIEtbQjGQcnos5_jKrclWonXfetxH8Zuw[/url]

[B]Straight Pdf[/B]
[url=http://avenue-s.us/resources/beneman_affirmative_defenses_materials.pdf]UNDERSTANDING AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES[/url][/SIZE]


So please continue with your game of Candy Land. Or was that La La Land?
 
Last edited:
You and I got into it a while ago on a different topic resulting in a temp ban. Boy, was that some fun. I couldn't stop laughing when that was going down.

Ah, yes. My infraction was reversed.
 
And this right here demonstrates that the real issue here is that you want Martin to be guilty of something, so you simply choose that position.

How did Zim get a bloody nose?
 
And this right here demonstrates that the real issue here is that you want Martin to be guilty of something, so you simply choose that position.

It's not a question of "you want"....It's simply following the evidence

Z has evidence of injuries, from his own version, neighbors' accounts and especially, the medical file, what else can YOU argue to exclude Z's self-defense?
 
Once again, you are ignorant and don't know what you're talking about. If the Zimmerman is going to put forth an affirmative defense, then that creates a burden of proof upon HIM. That means that he has to PROVE he was acting in self defense. No, don't argue about it. The fact that you don't know that shows that nothing more you might say on the matter can have any more relevance than a two year old giving instructions on how to play Candyland.

You can't make up statutes and case law. They are what they are, dude

Stop making things up and pretend they don't exist.

Get serious and read a bit more
 
I know. I followed it. Was hilarious, though. Best time i'ver ever had here.

Woulda been better if you took my side, but still great. :D
 
The line itself looks like a normal blue line to me, pretty straight. How are lines supposed to look?

All i'll say is good luck with that.
 
The desperation.
You ain't kidding!

They are alleging that the police tampered with the evidence and that the FDLE and FBI hasn't figured it out.
What a ****en joke.
 
Z has evidence of injuries

Well gee, Martin has evidence of injuries.

from his own version

Why do you accept his version? His version is irrelevant, seeing as his version has changed multiple times.

neighbors' accounts

Nothing in eye witness accounts establishes anything particularly significant

and especially, the medical file

BULL. ****.

what else can YOU argue to exclude Z's self-defense?

Funny, how you seem to think that I have some kind of responsibility to exclude Zimmerman's claims of self defense. You're wrong.
 
You can't make up statutes and case law. They are what they are, dude

Stop making things up and pretend they don't exist.

Get serious and read a bit more

I'm not making up anything. You're ignorant. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't even realize you're making an ass out of yourself.
 
I'm not making up anything. You're ignorant. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't even realize you're making an ass out of yourself.
No it is you who does not know what they are talking about. Your claim was already proven wrong.
 
No it is you who does not know what they are talking about. Your claim was already proven wrong.

:lamo

You haven't proven anything, and you're an idiot.

Affirmative defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An affirmative defense alleges facts that, if proven by the defendant, would defeat or reduce a claim even if the allegations alleged in the claim are all proven.

Because an affirmative defense requires an assertion of facts beyond those claimed by the plaintiff, generally the party who offers an affirmative defense bears the burden of proof.[6]

No be silent you fool.
 
:lamo

You haven't proven anything, and you're an idiot.

Affirmative defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An affirmative defense alleges facts that, if proven by the defendant, would defeat or reduce a claim even if the allegations alleged in the claim are all proven.

Because an affirmative defense requires an assertion of facts beyond those claimed by the plaintiff, generally the party who offers an affirmative defense bears the burden of proof.[6]

No be silent you fool.
Bye bye. lol

Your problem is that you do not know what you are talking about and are relying on Wiki. :doh
You were proven wrong in post #376.


Once again, you are ignorant and don't know what you're talking about. If the Zimmerman is going to put forth an affirmative defense, then that creates a burden of proof upon HIM. That means that he has to PROVE he was acting in self defense. No, don't argue about it. The fact that you don't know that shows that nothing more you might say on the matter can have any more relevance than a two year old giving instructions on how to play Candyland.
Wrong!

It places a burden of production on him. Not one of "proof".
And the evidence satisfies that burden.
The burden of "proof" rests on the prosecutions shoulders, and only the prosecutions shoulders.

Wrong.
This has already been discussed numerous times.
There is a burden to support the claim with evidence, known as the burden of production, not a burden of proof.
This evidence can even be produced through states' witnesses without Zimmerman taking the stand.

Code:
[B]UNDERSTANDING AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES[/B][SIZE=1]

[...]

[/SIZE][B]D. Burdens[/B]
The term “affirmative defense” seems inextricably tied to arguments about burden shifting.
Three different burdens exist; burden of proof (always on the government), burden of
production (normally on the defense), and burden of persuasion (normally back on the
government). The burden of proof to prove the essential elements of the crime charged
BRD starts with and ALWAYS stays with the Government. The burden of production to
generate an affirmative defense is on the defense. This is constitutional because the defense
is not negating an essential element of the crime charged. The standard, meaning the
quantum of evidence needed, varies with the particular affirmative defense. Generally it is
either by a preponderance, or by clear and convincing. Once the defense has met this burden
of producing an affirmative defense, the Government has the additional burden of
persuading the jury not just as to each element of the crime BRD, but also to persuade the
jury to reject the affirmative defense BRD as well.

[INDENT]I. Burden of Proof
Presenting an affirmative defense offers no relief to the government in what they
must prove. Patterson v. New York, 432 U.S. 197 (1977). Rather, if the defense
generates an affirmative defense, the government must then disprove the defense
generally beyond a reasonable doubt. Mullaney, 421 U.S. at 704; U.S. v. Jackson,
569 F.2d 1003, 1008 n.12 (7th Cir. 1978)(emphasis added).[/INDENT][SIZE=1]


[...]

[B]Google Doc[/B]
[url]https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:06-_HilumfEJ:www.fd.org/pdf_lib/beneman_affirmative_defenses_materials.pdf+affirmative+defense&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjQQ9DDIG6I9rtWnkdrvG4XMpf-h2KGVxjIf2cgCnXgnZ6rKrFrnVZwDO3Pw-YkvR4VQt6w8d4k7Jd6u3XiNVni3HwMVJaz2xJgZswMP-HkNfqJhwe5jZwla03YrbDJEf3LwZ9D&sig=AHIEtbQjGQcnos5_jKrclWonXfetxH8Zuw[/url]

[B]Straight Pdf[/B]
[url=http://avenue-s.us/resources/beneman_affirmative_defenses_materials.pdf]UNDERSTANDING AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES[/url][/SIZE]


So please continue with your game of Candy Land. Or was that La La Land?
 
Your problem is that you do not know what you are talking about and are relying on Wiki. :doh

I know exactly what I'm talking about. I quoted wikipedia because it's an easily available online source.

You were proven wrong in post #376.

No, nothing you have said does anything to support the premise that the prosecution has the burden to preemptively disprove a self defense claim. As stated in your own quote: The burden of proof to prove the essential elements of the crime charged BRD starts with and ALWAYS stays with the Government.

Preemption of a self defense claim is not an essential element of a crime. Zimmerman admitted to police that he shot Martin. That satisfies the essential elements of the crime.

As further stated in your own quotation: The burden of production to generate an affirmative defense is on the defense.

If Zimmerman wishes argue self defense then he will have to take the stand. And THAT is why he will have problems. Zimmerman won't have credibility. The question for the jury will become whether or not they believe Zimmerman is being honest. If they conclude that he's being dishonest about anything whatsoever, then even a marginally competent prosecutor will be able to convince the jury to reject the affirmative defense, and to furthermore view Zimmerman's perceived dishonesty as even more positive proof of his guilt.
 
I know exactly what I'm talking about. I quoted wikipedia because it's an easily available online source.



No, nothing you have said does anything to support the premise that the prosecution has the burden to preemptively disprove a self defense claim. As stated in your own quote: The burden of proof to prove the essential elements of the crime charged BRD starts with and ALWAYS stays with the Government.

Preemption of a self defense claim is not an essential element of a crime. Zimmerman admitted to police that he shot Martin. That satisfies the essential elements of the crime.

As further stated in your own quotation: The burden of production to generate an affirmative defense is on the defense.

If Zimmerman wishes argue self defense then he will have to take the stand. And THAT is why he will have problems. Zimmerman won't have credibility. The question for the jury will become whether or not they believe Zimmerman is being honest. If they conclude that he's being dishonest about anything whatsoever, then even a marginally competent prosecutor will be able to convince the jury to reject the affirmative defense, and to furthermore view Zimmerman's perceived dishonesty as even more positive proof of his guilt.
And you are still wrong. Go figure!

And no, you do not know exactly what you are talking about.
What I provided proves you wrong, and shows that you do not understand the finer points.

He does not have to take the stand if the defense can meet his burden of production by what the prosecution presents and cross of it.
The burden of proof always rest with the prosecution. Nothing you have said changes that.

As the evidence is overwhelmingly in his favor.
There is only two possible outcomes if this goes to trial.
Not guilty, or hung jury in his favor.
 
And you are still wrong. Go figure!

Simply saying that does not make it true. Maybe you should focus on actually getting educated on this stuff before you bother talking anymore.

And no, you do not know exactly what you are talking about.
What I provided proves you wrong, and shows that you do not understand the finer points.

:lamo You're the one who is blatantly ignoring what your own source says. Don't go fastening ad hoc BS to things.

He does not have to take the stand if the defense can meet his burden of production by what the prosecution presents and cross of it.

Theoretically this is true. However, that won't be possible. The defense cannot establish Zimmerman's alleged fear for his life without Zimmerman himself testifying to that fact.

The burden of proof always rest with the prosecution. Nothing you have said changes that.

Stop the BS. I'm sure you think you're clever to switch your verbiage back and forth between "burden of proof" and "burden of production." If you actually believe that there is a meaningful difference here between the two phrases then you're very obviously completely ignorant and probably trying to pull your arguments out of your ass. "Burden of production" refers to the portion of "proof" that deals with actually providing evidence. The second component of proof is the burden of persuasion, which is not relevant to the matter of providing evidence as we are discussing here. So stop playing word games.

Your own source that you quoted explicitly states that a defendant has a burden to prove an affirmative defense. Either accept your own source, or shut it.
 
Simply saying that does not make it true. Maybe you should focus on actually getting educated on this stuff before you bother talking anymore.
Actually it is true because you are wrong. Not because I say it.


You're the one who is blatantly ignoring what your own source says. Don't go fastening ad hoc BS to things.
I have not ignored what my own sources says as I am the one that provided it. And as it proves you wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. And you keep showing it.


Theoretically this is true. However, that won't be possible. The defense cannot establish Zimmerman's alleged fear for his life without Zimmerman himself testifying to that fact.
As it is more than possible, yes they can.


Stop the BS. I'm sure you think you're clever to switch your verbiage back and forth between "burden of proof" and "burden of production." If you actually believe that there is a meaningful difference here between the two phrases then you're very obviously completely ignorant and probably trying to pull your arguments out of your ass. "Burden of production" refers to the portion of "proof" that deals with actually providing evidence. The second component of proof is the burden of persuasion, which is not relevant to the matter of providing evidence as we are discussing here. So stop playing word games.
And thus showing that you are wrong.
They are termed differently for a reason.


Your own source that you quoted explicitly states that a defendant has a burden to prove an affirmative defense. Either accept your own source, or shut it.
There you go, not understanding AGAIN!
 
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