Netanyahu yields on Palestinian sovereignty

[creation]

The British Mandate was not the same as the NATO occupation of Iraq.

I can agree with you however that the land was not worked by British people, but by Jews and Arabs, that houses and villages were Jewish and Arab, and that growers and traders of its abundance were not British but Jews and Arabs.

The occupiers and builders of towns, however, were indeed British.

The lands that were declared 'public', were indeed owned by the British government.

There is no sense, again, in claiming that the land was simply 'Arab', as the Jews in Mandate Palestine were land owners as well, and there were many other minorities that have controlled lands.

Thank you.

The British occupied the land with their military and governors. That's it. Much like the USA in Iraq. Lands declared public were held administratively as the mandate was an administrative function.

The land was Arab in the sense of they having a vast majority. I could of course mention the Jews, but then Id have to mention the Druze and the Christians too - who's land it was too.

 

[creation]

False, Jews did not reject the plan and therefore we can assume that natives do not automatically reject such plans.
Also, seeing that Arabs are not natives of that land, but rather inhabitants, I do not see your point.
It is a known fact that Arabs came from the Arab Peninsula while Jews came from Israel.

No native majority population has ever chosen to share the land with an immigrant population which most of the Jews in Palestine were.

Even Jews did not come from Israel originally but from elsewhere in the deserts.

 

[Apocalypse]

Thank you.

The British occupied the land with their military and governors. That's it. Much like the USA in Iraq. Lands declared public were held administratively as the mandate was an administrative function.

They were held by Britain.

The land was Arab in the sense of they having a vast majority. I could of course mention the Jews, but then Id have to mention the Druze and the Christians too - who's land it was too.

Arabs had a vast majority in the British Mandate of Palestine, correct, but that is because there were no Jews in the Transjordan land, that consisted for over 70% of the land of the British Mandate of Palestine.
If one is looking only at the land of Palestine without Transjordan, Jews and Arabs were pretty close in numbers.

 

[creation]

They were held by Britain.
Arabs had a vast majority in the British Mandate of Palestine, correct, but that is because there were no Jews in the Transjordan land, that consisted for over 70% of the land of the British Mandate of Palestine.
If one is looking only at the land of Palestine without Transjordan, Jews and Arabs were pretty close in numbers.

Thank you but no it wasnt close.

In 1914 Jews were 8% of the population and owned 2% of the land.

In 1947 the balance was 58% Muslim, 33% Jewish, 7% christians and about 1% others. Thats excluding nomadic bedoins.

In fact by 1947 Jews had a clear majority in one area of palestine, Jaffa, shared roughly equal numbers in Haifa. Still leaving the rest of the country under considerable Arab domination.

 

[Apocalypse]

No native majority population has ever chosen to share the land with an immigrant population which most of the Jews in Palestine were.

When the Arabs immigrated to the land, the majority of it were Jews.
The Jews had no problem with the Arabs alongside them.
It is the Arabs who had a problem with the Jews willing for a state of their own in their national homeland.

Even Jews did not come from Israel originally but from elsewhere in the deserts.

Wrong, Jews came from Judah kingdom, surrounding Jerusalem.

 

[Apocalypse]

Thank you but no it wasnt close.

In 1914 Jews were 8% of the population and owned 2% of the land.

In 1947 the balance was 58% Muslim, 33% Jewish, 7% christians and about 1% others. Thats excluding nomadic bedoins.

In fact by 1947 Jews had a clear majority in one area of palestine, Jaffa, shared roughly equal numbers in Haifa. Still leaving the rest of the country under considerable Arab domination.

I would like to see the source.
You are perhaps speaking about the whole of mandate Palestine, and not only the land of Palestine.(Which was very small in relation to the whole land of Mandate Palestine, and the bigger part of it, Transjordan, was fully inhabited by Arabs.)

 

[creation]

When the Arabs immigrated to the land, the majority of it were Jews.
The Jews had no problem with the Arabs alongside them.
It is the Arabs who had a problem with the Jews willing for a state of their own in their national homeland.

Source?

I doubt after the Romans had scattered them, the Jews had any choice in medieval times. Obviously also the land was much more empty back then.

Wrong, Jews came from Judah kingdom, surrounding Jerusalem.

Wrong. Jews speak Hebrew, and are of Hebrew descent, which originates from the near east and Abraham was born in Mesopotamia.

 

[creation]

I would like to see the source.
You are perhaps speaking about the whole of mandate Palestine, and not only the land of Palestine.(Which was very small in relation to the whole land of Mandate Palestine, and the bigger part of it, Transjordan, was fully inhabited by Arabs.)

Please see the map.

Palestine's Population Distribution Per District as of 1946

 

[mbig]

Thank you but no it wasnt close.

In 1914 Jews were 8% of the population and owned 2% of the land.

In 1947 the balance was 58% Muslim, 33% Jewish, 7% christians and about 1% others. Thats excluding nomadic bedoins.

In fact by 1947 Jews had a clear majority in one area of palestine, Jaffa, shared roughly equal numbers in Haifa. Still leaving the rest of the country under considerable Arab domination.

Jews got most of the remianing land after 'jordan' and it's palestinians got 77%.
Then Jews got roughly 13/10 on the last 23%.

Of course The map and stats you are only cite population, NOT ownership.
2/3 of what became Israel was State Land and owned by NO Arab; including ½ of Israel that was the though-useless Negev.
If one excludes the near empty Negev alone, Arabs got most of the land 10:6.5 including other State land, roughly 10:4.
Even better than the ratio percent of population you claim. (58:33)

And of what was left...

"...[....]
1. When Israel was set up in 1947, the area designated was a clear Majority Jewish area; 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs.
(mbig note: The latter 'Arabs' also including/enhanced by Christians, Druse, Bedouins, etc)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict

-

 

[creation]

Jews got most of the remianing land after 'jordan' and it's palestinians got 77%.
Then Jews got roughly 13/10 on the last 23%.

Of course The map and stats you are only cite population, NOT ownership.
2/3 of what became Israel was State Land and owned by NO Arab; including ½ of Israel that was the though-useless Negev.
If one excludes the near empty Negev alone, Arabs got most of the land 10:6.5 including other State land, roughly 10:4.
Even better than the ratio percent of population you claim. (58:33)

And of what was left...

"...[....]
1. When Israel was set up in 1947, the area designated was a clear Majority Jewish area; 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs.
(mbig note: The latter 'Arabs' also including/enhanced by Christians, Druse, Bedouins, etc)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict

-

As you can see from the provided stats, even that small number of Jews was much smaller previously, and by 1947 they were mostly recent immigrants who entry had been consistently opposed by the Arabs.

So considering the Arabs never even agreed to so many there in the first place, they should have got alot less. One cannot morally just ship in hundreds of thousands of new people every year then claim equal access to the land on that basis. Theres not a nation or a people on earth that would allow or agree to the same thing today or yesterday.

Unless of course, the Arab view was never considered or recognised and was instead ignored - which is what happened.

In any case, its a shame your source vilifies so many decent Israelis so.

 

[creation]

Jews got most of the remianing land after 'jordan' and it's palestinians got 77%.
Then Jews got roughly 13/10 on the last 23%.

Of course The map and stats you are only cite population, NOT ownership.
2/3 of what became Israel was State Land and owned by NO Arab; including ½ of Israel that was the though-useless Negev.
If one excludes the near empty Negev alone, Arabs got most of the land 10:6.5 including other State land, roughly 10:4.
Even better than the ratio percent of population you claim. (58:33)

And of what was left...

"...[....]
1. When Israel was set up in 1947, the area designated was a clear Majority Jewish area; 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs.
(mbig note: The latter 'Arabs' also including/enhanced by Christians, Druse, Bedouins, etc)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict

-

As for land ownership, I think the Jews owned something along the lines of 7% in 1947. I read this from Benny Morris one time, hardly a sympathetic voice to the Palestinians these days.

Here is a map of the situation;
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

In the end the whole thing is summed up by Ben Gurions own admission;

"In 1938 Ben Gurion made the stunning admission that the entire presence of the zionists in palestine was 'politically' an agression. The fighting, he said, is only one aspect of the conflict which in its essence is a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves."

Scars of war, wounds of peace. Schlomo Ben-Avi
__________________

 

[mbig]

As you can see from the provided stats, even that small number of Jews was much smaller previously, and by 1947 they were mostly recent immigrants who entry had been consistently opposed by the Arabs.

At the creation of Israel 1/3 of Jews were of local Birth.

Of course many arabs were also recent immigrants having follwed the Zionists in for the economic opportunity they presented.
The population growth around Jewish areas was nearly twice that of other areas.

"One always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a few weeks or a few months...Since they are themselves strangers in a strange land, they are the loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq.

(Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17

enjoy the rest that rebuts alot of your other stuff at: The Palestinian Identity

So considering the Arabs Never even Agreed to so Many there in the first place, they should have got alot less.

Oooops!

The Weizmann-Faisal Agreement
January 1919​

​

His Royal Highness the Emir FAISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of HEJAZ, AND Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, (mbig note, 'Palestine' the JEWISH one) and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following articles:

Article I

The Arab State and Palestine (mbig note, 'Palestine even then, The JEWISH 'state') in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories.
[........]
Article III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government’s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917 (Balfour Declaration-SEH).

Article IV

All necessary measures will be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a Large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasants and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.
[..............]

The Weizmann-Faisal Agreement

One cannot morally just ship in hundreds of thousands of new people every year then claim equal access to the land on that basis....

Obviousy that's wild exaaggeration, so wild as to be completely Untrue... as only app 540,000 Jews vs 390,000 palestinians lived in what became Israel in 1948.
And by 1900 40,000 Jews (vs 8000 Arabs) lived in Jerusalem alone.
So over 48 years "hundreds of thousands a year" is in fact about 10,000 a year population increase and some of that natural growth. And a great deal of Arabs/'Palestinians' also immigrants.

 

[mbig]

As for land ownership, I think the Jews owned something along the lines of 7% in 1947. I read this from Benny Morris one time, hardly a sympathetic voice to the Palestinians these days..

Benny Morris was FORCED by Facts and the work of Efraim Karsh to repent on much of his early Fraudulent writings that you want to cite when he was ANTI-Israel AS IF you are doing the board a favor and quoting an admission against interest of someone who was always pro-Israel.
FYI... Benny was, until 2 years ago, probably the most cited (by arabs and anti-Israelers) historian of the net.



Benny Morris's Reign of Error (1999)
http://www.meforum.org/466/benny-morris-and-the-reign-of-error

Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited (2005)
http://www.meforum.org/711/benny-morriss-reign-of-error-revisited

Here is a map of the situation;
ww.palestineremembered.co

You'll [continue to] get rebutted vey easily if you persist throughout this whole string with Single source propaganda site (and oxymoron) 'palestineremembered'.

In the end the whole thing is summed up by Ben Gurions own admission;

"In 1938 Ben Gurion made the stunning admission that the entire presence of the zionists in palestine was 'politically' an agression. The fighting, he said, is only one aspect of the conflict which in its essence is a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves."

Scars of war, wounds of peace. Schlomo Ben-Avi

I'd like a source/Link for this quote, as the internet, especially trash like palestineremembered is filled with Fake 'zionist quotes'.

In fact, Benny Morris should be out of work for his early outrageous Lies doing just that; Fabricating quotes
Here's another "ben Gurion quote" of Benny that can be found on Hundreds of sites.
Yes, this really "Sums it up" too!

Camera:

..Benny Morris, for example, Claims in his book 'The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem', that the Israeli leader David Ben Gurion wrote to his son,
“We must expel Arabs and take their places,”
which fits quite well with the assertion that Israel banished the Palestinians.

But Professor Efraim Karsh, in his book
Fabricating Israeli History: The New Historians, Refutes this, showing that the Ben Gurion letter actually states the Opposite,
“We do NOT wish and do NOT need to expel Arabs and take their places.”
(Karsh, p. 46-51)
And this is just one of the Many examples of Fraud and misrepresentation Karsh exposes in the work of Morris, Shlaim, et. al.

CAMERA: Back to the Future:

Whadya think about that Sum up? Coexistence.

Whereupon Benny should have been Hung for Treason and laughed out of academia.

Also see fraudulent zionist quotes - Google Search for an Overview of this Arab And Israeli 'New Historian' pastime.

And for the record, here's reformed Fraud Benny's take.. but not until 2008!

http://www.zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/02/israel-and-palestinians-according-to.html

Irish Times
lettersed@irish-times.ie
February 21, 2008
Israel and the Palestinians

Benny Morris:

Madam, - Israel-Haters are fond of citing - and more often, Mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments. Let me offer some corrections.

[............]

 

[creation]

At the creation of Israel 1/3 of Jews were of local Birth.

Yes, thank you. Leaving 2/3's just arrived from Europe.

Of course many arabs were also recent immigrants having follwed the Zionists in for the economic opportunity they presented.
The population growth around Jewish areas was nearly twice that of other areas.

Rather the opportunity the British presented. Did the Israelis make the desert bloom by the way?

Oooops!

Oooops indeed!

An agreement repudiated by leadership after Faizal, undermined by the British and French's own agreement and in the end even repudiated by himself as an unfullfilled agreement.

The fact is, Arab opposition to his actions forced him to back way from this agreement in any case - so to say that the arabs had agreed to anything as you seem to imply, is simply untenable. oooops indeed.

Obviousy that's wild exaaggeration, so wild as to be completely Untrue... as only app 540,000 Jews vs 390,000 palestinians lived in what became Israel in 1948.
And by 1900 40,000 Jews (vs 8000 Arabs) lived in Jerusalem alone.
So over 48 years "hundreds of thousands a year" is in fact about 10,000 a year population increase and some of that natural growth. And a great deal of Arabs/'Palestinians' also immigrants.

True. Hundreds of thousands every year would mean millions in less than a decade. Which was not the case. The jewish immigration was however substantial for the territory by any measure.

 

[creation]

Benny Morris was FORCED by Facts and the work of Efraim Karsh to repent on much of his early Fraudulent writings that you want to cite when he was ANTI-Israel AS IF you are doing the board a favor and quoting an admission against interest of someone who was always pro-Israel.
FYI... Benny was, until 2 years ago, probably the most cited (by arabs and anti-Israelers) historian of the net.



Benny Morris's Reign of Error (1999)
Benny Morris and the Reign of Error :: Middle East Quarterly

Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited (2005)
Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited: The Post-Zionist Critique :: Middle East Quarterly



You'll [continue to] get rebutted vey easily if you persist throughout this whole string with Single source propaganda site (and oxymoron) 'palestineremembered'.

Thank you. But I suspect the 7% ownership number isnt too far off the mark though of course Id be interested to see anything else.

And the source site while it does have some since proved incorrect quotes, it makes tremendous arguments, posts photo-copied documents and doesnt make too many outrageous statements, so Im happy with most of it.

I'd like a source/Link for this quote, as the internet, especially trash like palestineremembered is filled with Fake 'zionist quotes'.

The quote is given not by Benny Morris, who despite his controversy has never really been a great sympathiser with the Palestinians, but by Schlomo Ben-Avi ;

Scars of war, wounds of peace: the ... - Google Books

 

[mbig]

Yes, thank you. Leaving 2/3's just arrived from Europe.

Not necessarily "just arrived".
Many could have been there for 30 years or more.
That stat only Birth.

Any many Plaestinians just arrived from across the Arab World.. as I said. There increases, especially in Jewish Settled Area, Legendary.
Just as right up until the Intifada 10 thousand sought work daily.. and many still do work.

Rather the opportunity the British presented. Did the Israelis make the desert bloom by the way?

Why take my word? :^)

"...Winston Churchill was British Colonial Secretary when he visited the Middle East in the winter of 1920-1921. Anti-Semitic elements in the British government tried to assert that the Jews were not needed to develop Palestine. Churchill replied:

Left to themselves, the Arabs of Palestine would not in a thousand years have taken effective steps towards the irrigation and electrification of Palestine. They would have been quite content to dwell—a handful of philosophic people—in wasted sun-drenched plains, letting the waters of the Jordan flow unbridled and unharnessed into the Dead Sea."​

In 1924, a few months after becoming Commissioner of the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Elwood Mead (namesake of Lake Mead behind Hoover Dam) published a highly favorable review of Jewish settlements in Palestine based on his visits there in 1923. His article, "New Palestine," praised the Zionists accomplishments and plans.. Mead blamed Islam, Ottoman governance, and Arab culture for the demise of Roman irrigation systems that, according to Mead, once supported "lands flowing with milk and honey." Mead was a consultant to Chiam Weizman offering his expertise to maximize the return on investment of the extensive investments in irrigation, land reclamation, and water supplies in the Zionist areas based on Mead's extensive experience in the American West.
After the Arab riots in 1929, Mead wrote to the British High Commissioner that Jewish colonists had produced "a marvelous Transformation" in the Palestinian landscape. Mead noted that in his visits to Palestine he had seen nothing "to indicate that the Arab was injured."
Moreover, the Jewish example of "what Modern finance and equipment can do, coupled with the sympathetic interest of the government is bringing him out of the hopeless inertia that misgovernment and oppression of centuries past have created .... "Jewish settlers in Palestine were not only Reclaiming the land, they were elevating living standards for the Arab population and assisting the British government.

In his report to the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Transjordan for the year 1925, the British High Commissioner wrote:

Fuel-power stations for the generation of electrical light and energy have been established at Haifa and Tiberias by the [Jewish] Palestine Electric Corporation, Limited. This increase in commercial activity, in building enterprise and new industrial developments is due almost entirely to Jewish capital and the entry during the year of an immigrant class with money to invest.​

During this period a significant shift of population took place as Arabs and others from all over the Middle East moved to the areas of Zionist cultivation and development...

Zionist Impact on Palestine

Oooops indeed!
An agreement repudiated by leadership after Faizal,...

The fact is you said "Never".
Wrong.
Not that all the areas Arabs had to agree to Jewish immigration Anyway.
Palestine was Never as self-governing entity since it was last 'Israel'.. rather sovereignty had passed from a dozen different peoples, during which time immigration of Many groups happened later to be known as 'palestinians'.

And BTW, Hashemites never ruled (or even lived in) the 70% of the Mandate that became Jordan.
Any beef there?

Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to create a Christian Majority.
Silence, or not known?

Iraq was created willy-nilly throwing three ottoman provinces together and giving them to another Hashmeite Prince. Faisal (screwing the Kurds and shia).

Bottom line?
Israel, Unlike most of these British/Arab concoctions, had been occupied be Jews continuously for 3000 years and settled siginificantly thereby for more than 100......
was Voted on by the UN and created by the that World body, consistent with the previous World body's (League of Nations) Promise well before WW2.

Your repeated and selective attempt at Delegitimization based on strawman arguments and a few 'facts' from 'palestineremembered' or early discredited Morris (who you knew Not was the 'voice of arab history') have been rebutted.

 

[creation]

Not necessarily "just arrived".
Many could have been there for 30 years or more.
That stat only Birth.

Thank you.

Some could indeed have been there for 30 years or so. Many more were not. As such your comments unfortunately cannot bve not much of a rebuttal as you would like it to appear.

A better one would be, "no 2/3's of them were in fact born there.." but I suppose since thats not the case you have little left.

In the end the importance of Jewish immigration to the Jewish population of Palestine in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century is undisputed. Its a pity you seek to battle against the obvious even israelis would admit to.

Any many Plaestinians just arrived from across the Arab World.. as I said. There increases, especially in Jewish Settled Area, Legendary.
Just as right up until the Intifada 10 thousand sought work daily.. and many still do work.

There is nothing stopping you from telling us exactly how many Arabs arrived from elsewhere and when. However, it is easily granted that Arabs arrived from the rural areas to take part in the war work and other capital ventures in the boom years.

Why take my word? :^)

Oh dear. Youve quoted Churchill, the very same man who defended gassing recalcitrant tribes, viscerally criticised, the free Poles, Ghandhi of all people, hoped that a defeated England would find its own Hitler and even labelled Jews as conspirators in world Bolshevism. A more random minded arch racist in higher circles of statesmanship youd be hard pressed to find.

Are you really prepared to stand by this man? I hope not for your sakes.

In any case, while it is granted that the Jews thanks to world wide capital investments and their own determination did make a success of their own communities and contributed to the thriving of the cities in which they lived, Palestine was already blooming by the efforts of Palestinians - thats right, Arabs - Islam practicing, dress wearing arabic speaking Arabs. They grew Palestine's abundance and exported it to europe.

The fact is you said "Never".
Wrong.

No, correct in fact. Faizal's agreement wasnt even agreed to by other arabs, and even he repudiated it years after as Ive said.

A valid rebuttal would have been "the arabs had a pleibicite and in that they agreed, etc etc." Or "Faizal made an agreement that everyone accepted afterwards etc etc".

Not that all the areas Arabs had to agree to Jewish immigration Anyway.

Really? Just one Arab is all it takes is it then? :roll:

Palestine was Never as self-governing entity since it was last 'Israel'.. rather sovereignty had passed from a dozen different peoples, during which time immigration of Many groups happened later to be known as 'palestinians'.

Ah yes, the old Palestinians dont exist trick. Pretend they are not even there. A more convenient way to insert yourself en masse into a land you couldnt find.

And BTW, Hashemites never ruled (or even lived in) the 70% of the Mandate that became Jordan.
Any beef there?

So why are you contending that because of the Weizmann- Faizal agreement that the arabs had in fact agreed to the jewush state when you here admit that people like the Hashemites never even ruled or lived in the area?

What trick are you trying to pull here?

Lebanon was Gerrymandered out of the French Mandate to create a Christian Majority.
Silence, or not known?

Please explain this in bold. Also please explain your point - is it that French gerrymandering is legitimate?

Iraq was created willy-nilly throwing three ottoman provinces together and giving them to another Hashmeite Prince. Faisal (screwing the Kurds and shia).

Bottom line?

This the same guy you claim agreed with weizmann on the accepted behalf of the Palestinian Arabs?:roll:

Israel, Unlike most of these British/Arab concoctions, had been occupied be Jews continuously for 3000 years and settled siginificantly thereby for more than 100......
was Voted on by the UN and created by the that World body, consistent with the previous World body's (League of Nations) Promise well before WW2.

Its been occupied by everyone and in fact has never been empty. As such the exclusive jewish claim is invalid.

Your repeated and selective attempt at Delegitimization based on strawman arguments and a few 'facts' from 'palestineremembered' or early discredited Morris (who you knew Not was the 'voice of arab history') have been rebutted.

Stunning.

Do you even know what strawman argument is? It is attacking an argument that the other person has not made. So do you even have any examples of such?

The fact is, because of the simple fact of mass immigration from europe under the zionist banner the pro-israel crowd can only make their case by pretending the palestinians either dont count, dont exist, already agreed to whatever the zionists wanted or were too lazy to make their own land productive.

re benny Morris. It is one fact re jewish land ownership that you have yet to even counter.

The rest was from an actual photocopied document called the survey of palestine.

Meanwhile you accuse me of using poor sources despite the photocopied evidence linked while promoting your source 'meforum' which is directed by with Daniel Pipes (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Daniel_Pipes) of all people - a noted hard-line zionist who favors profiling muslims in the United States of America!

This level of cheek really does take some beating.

 

[mbig]

Completely Argumentative and offering No new facts.
Is this the game here?
Very politie but Bait your opponent with persistent, unending semantics despite the fact you get answered with Substantial facts.

You put up 'Palestineremembered', I rebut with facts they conveniently leave out, like [the huge fact that 2/3 was] 'State Land'.. and
Churchill, Mead, and the British High Commissioner and then you put down those sources while using such Bogus/Biased source material!
"Stunn!ng" indeed!
Are we in Ramallah or the USA?

Oh, and we/the the board has been through this, including those trying to use your sources (like poster 'Jenin', who because of his Origin one would expect palremembered from) just before you arrived.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land.html

Doing this every 2 or 3 months for every new Israel-delegitimizer is boring tho.
And NOT on Topic in This string.
-

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

That's enough of the historical bickering. The OP is a contemporary development. Either address this current development or drop out of the discussion.

 

[creation]

Completely Argumentative and offering No new facts.
Is this the game here?
Very politie but Bait your opponent with persistent, unending semantics despite the fact you get answered with Substantial facts

Argumentative? No new facts? Persistent unending semantics?

All that has happened is that Ive mentioned a few things, youve tried to pretend they arent true or mitigate them and ive re-iterated the facts.

You put up 'Palestineremembered', I rebut with facts they conveniently leave out, like [the huge fact that 2/3 was] 'State Land'

It is left out because it is irrelevant. The state land is like all of Palestine, a resource for its people - all its people, rather than a exclusive immigrant minority.

and
Churchill, Mead, and the British High Commissioner and then you put down those sources while using such Bogus/Biased source material!

Yes. I not only put down racist sources such as Churchill but counter as to their validity of their statements given the enormous evidence for who was really working Palestine's resources.

Meanwhile I even granted you that the Jewish communities really did well. How much more fair can I be?

You seem to want to tell everyone that the jews made palestine bloom. Along with 'a land for a people, for a people without a land' its a racist notion made to legitimise the initial project and later conquest.

"Stunn!ng" indeed!
Are we in Ramallah or the USA?

Are you saying a Palestinian could not understand rational discourse?

Oh, and we/the the board has been through this, including those trying to use your sources (like poster 'Jenin', who because of his Origin one would expect palremembered from) just before you arrived.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land.html

Doing this every 2 or 3 months for every new Israel-delegitimizer is boring tho.
And NOT on Topic in This string.
-

We/the board?

Please. It really stretches things when you expect us to take your Daniel Pipes source seriously while slating my source, which does exactly what anyone would expect it to do - produce photocopied evidence.

But anyway, do what you wish if you think its all boring. However, if anyone tries on this pro-Israel propaganda while conversing with me I have no choice but to refute it.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

creation is banned from this thread. My injunction above is clear and explicit and applies to everyone. Either return to the OP or drop out of this discussion.