Netanyahu says E. Jerusalem demands 'prevent peace'

[alexa]

Israel has offered in the past to give the Palestinians all of the Muslim quarters of East Jerusalem, and to impose an international control over the holy sites, as part of a final peace agreement.

The offering was refused.

are you referring to Camp David? I have frequently heard you yourself saying that Israel wants Jerusalem, all of it as the Capital of Israel in defence of construction work there. Is it not true that in the unacceptable offer Barack made was actually breaking a taboo about discussing Jerusalem which Israel, apart from this glip, has always wanted the whole of for her Capital

 

[alexa]

Will they never learn :/

Laila, I do not think everything is as you believe. Have a look at this article

Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture

 

[justabubba]

there is no national purpose for the government of israel to actually seek peace

anything it negotiates would result in its having less than it now possesses

the status quo is the best scenario for the state of israel

it is only when it is motivated to return to the negotiation table that israel will return
i doubt the withholding of American largesse will be adequate to push the israelis in that direction
unfortunately, it will be the resumption of missle attacks, suicide bombs, a better armed insurgency, and/or the overt assistance of the other arab states, which adversely impacts the safety of the israeli people, before the israeli government sees reason to engage in peace talks

until then, for propaganda purposes, israel should continue talking about wanting peace while simultaneously doing everything possible to undermine peace talks

 

[Apocalypse]

That is true.
If the Palestinian leadership was slightly intelligent, they'd use Obama and push for a negotiation

They don't even need to use Obama, Israel desires to enter negotiations for peace.

The longer they hold, the less there will be.

Exactly.

 

[Apocalypse]

are you referring to Camp David? I have frequently heard you yourself saying that Israel wants Jerusalem, all of it as the Capital of Israel in defence of construction work there. Is it not true that in the unacceptable offer Barack made was actually breaking a taboo about discussing Jerusalem which Israel, apart from this glip, has always wanted the whole of for her Capital

Israel still desires Jerusalem to be undivided.
It did however desire to give parts of east Jerusalem to the Palestinians(the Muslim quarters), and indeed to offer an international governing of the holy sites in it.

That was Olmert's offer, by the way, from no more than 2 years ago, and it was refused by Mahmoud Abbas.
Barak has offered something similar and that was refused as well, by Yasser Arafat.

 

[Apocalypse]

there is no national purpose for the government of israel to actually seek peace

anything it negotiates would result in its having less than it now possesses

the status quo is the best scenario for the state of israel

If there was any form of truth to this Israel would be boycotting the peace talks just as the Palestinians do.

Israel is a representative democracy.
Its government represents the people.
The Israeli people desire peace. No one likes to send his children to war.

We mark today the 62nd independence day of the Israeli state.
The amount of songs that were written for peace and against the war during those 62 years, the amount of movies that were filmed to show how horrible and how painful war truly is - is simply countless.

it is only when it is motivated to return to the negotiation table that israel will return

Israel wishes to return to the negotiation table and yet it cannot.
The Palestinians refuse to negotiate for peace.
They boycott the talks, they oppose peace.

i doubt the withholding of American largesse will be adequate to push the israelis in that direction
unfortunately, it will be the resumption of missle attacks, suicide bombs, a better armed insurgency, and/or the overt assistance of the other arab states, which adversely impacts the safety of the israeli people, before the israeli government sees reason to engage in peace talks

That terrorism can promote political causes is the thinking of the weak, of the pathetic and of the small.
Such people's place, if they even deserve the title "people", is certainly not amongst humanity.

 

[alexa]

Israel still desires Jerusalem to be undivided.
It did however desire to give parts of east Jerusalem to the Palestinians(the Muslim quarters), and indeed to offer an international governing of the holy sites in it.

That was Olmert's offer, by the way, from no more than 2 years ago, and it was refused by Mahmoud Abbas.
Barak has offered something similar and that was refused as well, by Yasser Arafat.

So right now Israel wants all of Jerusalem. It will be a one state solution.

You will need to provide a link to the exact details of this Peace Plan.

 

[PeteEU]

Fixed.


.

No, this is about Netanyahu and his policies. He is using exactly the same tactic that he and pro-Israel "persons" are accusing the Palestinians of using.

It is nothing but an excuse by Israel not to join the peace process, just as the self return crap is an excuse by some Palestinians to not join the peace process.

It is more of the same, 2 brats going at it.

 

[Apocalypse]

No, this is about Netanyahu and his policies. He is using exactly the same tactic that he and pro-Israel "persons" are accusing the Palestinians of using.

It is nothing but an excuse by Israel not to join the peace process, just as the self return crap is an excuse by some Palestinians to not join the peace process.

It is more of the same, 2 brats going at it.

Your words hold no water.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians openly boycott the peace talks and deny the two parties the ability to negotiate towards peace.

 

[Apocalypse]

So right now Israel wants all of Jerusalem. It will be a one state solution.

You will need to provide a link to the exact details of this Peace Plan.

A one-state solution would never occur.
It is unrealistic, undesirable, and pretty much non-supported by the international community.

Haaretz exclusive: Olmert's plan for peace with the Palestinians - Haaretz - Israel News

 

[alexa]

A one-state solution would never occur.
It is unrealistic, undesirable, and pretty much non-supported by the international community.

No the International Community is fighting while the possibility of a 2 state solution still exists. It is beggining to be thought that might not be for much longer. Then the only possibility will be a one state solution with equal rights for all.

Haaretz exclusive: Olmert's plan for peace with the Palestinians - Haaretz - Israel News

I found that link but it does not say why the talks failed so does not clue me in at all. Could it have something to do with this?

Olmert says 'holy' Jerusalem to stay Israeli forever - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

not much good if Israel has sovereignty over it.

Now I must leave talking here and get on with things!

 

[Apocalypse]

No the International Community is fighting while the possibility of a 2 state solution still exists. It is beggining to be thought that might not be for much longer. Then the only possibility will be a one state solution with equal rights for all.

Your claim that it is "beginning to change" is baseless.
The international community is fully aware that the only moral option is the two-states solution, and I seriously doubt that would ever change, and certainly not to an unrealistic solution such as the one-state solution.

I found that link but it does not say why the talks failed so does not clue me in at all. Could it have something to do with this?

Olmert says 'holy' Jerusalem to stay Israeli forever - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

not much good if Israel has sovereignty over it.

Now I must leave talking here and get on with things!

No.
Palestinians reject proposal by Israeli PM | Reuters

 

[PeteEU]

Your words hold no water.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians openly boycott the peace talks and deny the two parties the ability to negotiate towards peace.

And why do the Palestinians boycott the peace talks? Because Israel refuses to discuss East Jerusalem, stop settlements and the right of return!

If there is to be a peace in the region then EVERYTHING must be on the negotiation table and both sides must make very hard calls for the future of their people.

But as long as just one side refuses to discuss one thing, then we are going no where.

 

[alexa]

Your claim that it is "beginning to change" is baseless.
The international community is fully aware that the only moral option is the two-states solution, and I seriously doubt that would ever change, and certainly not to an unrealistic solution such as the one-state solution.

But there must remain the ability for there to be 2 States. When that is no longer possible and as you yourself said, the Palestinians get less and less land then the only possibility is for a one state solution.

No.
Palestinians reject proposal by Israeli PM | Reuters

He did not believe it was a serious offer.

I think there are plenty of reasons for that in the article you produced.

However now is now. For a two State solution, the Palestinians need East Jerusalem as their capital.

You are saying Israel wants all of Jerusalem for hers. No possibility of peace. In ten years, one state solution because this situation cannot carry on for very much longer.

 

[Apocalypse]

And why do the Palestinians boycott the peace talks? Because Israel refuses to discuss East Jerusalem, stop settlements and the right of return!

Wrong.
Israel puts everything on the negotiations table.

 

[Apocalypse]

But there must remain the ability for there to be 2 States. When that is no longer possible and as you yourself said, the Palestinians get less and less land then the only possibility is for a one state solution.

No, there would always be the possibility for two-states solution.
Israel would never reoccupy Gaza, and would certainly never annex it, and it would never establish new settlements within the West Bank.
The two states solution will always be the only choice.

He did not believe it was a serious offer.

I think there are plenty of reasons for that in the article you produced.

However now is now. For a two State solution, the Palestinians need East Jerusalem as their capital.

You are saying Israel wants all of Jerusalem for hers. No possibility of peace. In ten years, one state solution because this situation cannot carry on for very much longer.

They can reach a compromise through negotiations.
That's how they do it usually to solve conflicts.
Negotiations.
What an horrible, horrible word - eh?

 

[PeteEU]

Wrong.
Israel puts everything on the negotiations table.

No they dont. Prove it.

They refuse to talk about right of return and East Jerusalem. No amount of spin from you or your cohorts can change that fact. Every single proposal Israel has ever come up with stays clear of these 2 subjects.

The ironic thing is that if the 2 sides could agree on these 2 subjects then there could be peace in a very short time, but as long as one side refuses to discuss the subjects and other other side refuses to discuss anything if these subjects are not part of the discussion, then you will not get anywhere.

 

[Apocalypse]

No they dont. Prove it.

You'd have to point out to where did the Israeli government state that it would place a taboo over an issue during negotiations.

They refuse to talk about right of return and East Jerusalem

The proposal gave Palestinians 94% of the West Bank, control of Arab areas of East Jerusalem and a symbolic return of some refugees, he said.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Olmert: I went furthest on peace

Liar liar pants on fire. :2razz:

Seriously, nothing personal, but it seems more than ever that your knowledge over the Israeli country and the issues surrounding it is pretty much tending to zero.

All you post here is pretty much nothing more than agenda-motivated reality-unrelated bullcrap.
Facts destroy you.

 

[alexa]

, and it would never establish new settlements within the West Bank.

and when exactly did Israel stop making new settlements in the West Bank

The two states solution will always be the only choice.

Only while there is the possibility for two States.

They can reach a compromise through negotiations.
That's how they do it usually to solve conflicts.
Negotiations.
What an horrible, horrible word - eh?

Oh Gosh, 62 years of negotiations have produced such peace. I failed to notice.

 

[justabubba]

post 40:

Wrong.
Israel puts everything on the negotiations table.

post #41 also by apo:

The two states solution will always be the only choice.

sure. everything is on the table ... as long as it is an option acceptable to the israeli overnment. otherwise, don't even think about it, i.e., the one-state solution

thanks for the laugh

 

[Apocalypse]

and when exactly did Israel stop making new settlements in the West Bank

I can't recall the exact timing.
Around a decade ago I'd say.

Oh Gosh, 62 years of negotiations have produced such peace. I failed to notice.

There were no 62 years of negotiations.
The Palestinian authority was only established in 1994, in the Oslo accords.
Your knowledge of Israeli history tends to zero, as well.

 

[Apocalypse]

post 40:

post #41 also by apo:

sure. everything is on the table ... as long as it is an option acceptable to the israeli overnment. otherwise, don't even think about it, i.e., the one-state solution

thanks for the laugh

The one-state solution is a completely different solution.
How can it be on the table of negotiations towards two-states solution?

If the goal of your crusade of propaganda was to make yourself look like an idiot - you've succeeded.
You may now return to your people on Mars and tell them of your achievements.
May the force be with you.

 

[alexa]

I can't recall the exact timing.
Around a decade ago I'd say.

Really.

It is noteworthy that, since 1990, Israeli construction in the West Bank and Gaza has not received the status of “formal settlement” from the State of Israel (aside from the construction in East Jerusalem, there were only 2‐3 exceptions). Today, there are 121 settlements according to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics and over 200 settlements according to Palestinian sources (aggregating the numbers of both settlements and outposts).

a few more than you thought I think and further impeding the likelihood of a Palestinian State

In addition to government‐sanctioned settlements, the In addition to government‐sanctioned settlements, the settlers have built housing units without formal government permits. Labeled as “illegal outposts” by the Israeli government and considered as illegal as any other settlement from an international law perspective, these small and sparsely populated dwellings include today, according to Palestinian sources, some 239 outposts (including in East Jerusalem). Israeli sources report there are more than 100 such outposts. Regardless of their exact number, only a few thousand settlers live in them. Additionally, these outposts have rendered inaccessible large areas of Palestinian land. Their spatial distribution is such that, like scissors, they cut through Palestinian land, preventing the contiguity of the future Palestinian state.

both links http://pij.org/policypapers/settlements_pijpaper.pdf

Unless some change happens in the freezing and dismantling of the settlements I think it will be a one state solution.

 

[Apocalypse]

Really.

a few more than you thought I think and further impeding the likelihood of a Palestinian State

2010 - 10 = 2000.

Unless some change happens in the freezing and dismantling of the settlements I think it will be a one state solution.

It would always be a two-states solution.

 

[alexa]

2010 - 10 = 2000.
It would always be a two-states solution.

I can count. I am just pointing out that it is not that there has not been new settlements it is just that they have not been called that.

However even given this Israel has given permission for new settlements

Israel's authorities unveiled on Thursday, May 10, plans to build three more Jewish settlements to encircle the occupied holy city of Al-Quds, drawing immediate reprimands from Israeli peace advocates and the Palestinians, reported Haaretz daily.

Read more: New Jewish Settlements Encircle Al-Quds - IslamOnline.net - News