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Need Guidance

ElCid

ElCid

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Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?


"I, BUBBA K. SKINNARD, HAVE SPOKEN."
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ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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My friend I've done there and been that. From experience I'd tell you that you have to walk that road all by yourself. My wife is still Catholic, though I no longer am. We both agree that truly God priests are few and far between. It'll be rare if you find unbiased help from the Church, I can tell you that. Oddly enough I really liked Latin Mass. I couldn't understand it but, well maybe that is why I enjoyed it. At any rate I never bought into much of what I was told growing up and couldn't believe the stories about Jesus. That was superstition and magic as far as I was concerned.

It isn't easy walking away from it. I just quit going.

A very religious man John Milton once wrote that truth should never fear skepticism and investigation. He was much more eloquent than I, but in essence he said truth prevails. The Church of course teaches you never to deeply question the faith. Why should you not? If you are discover something that resonates, you may know truth. If you are wrong your faith will be renewed and strengthened. The way the truth and the light is relative, Cid. Many paths, one destination. Bon voyage.
 
I suggest you look into some of the esoteric strains within the Church. There is so much depth to our religion, it is a shame that is tends to get overshadowed by the blind ritualism you are talking about.

One of my favorite priests is Father Robert Kennedy, who is also an ordained Zen roshi:
Morning Star Zendo

It really opens up the faith when you realize that it is compatible with Zen Buddhism. Beyond that, there is a lot to explore in the mystic tradition of the Church.
 
ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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??
So you believe a man rose from the dead after 3 days, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, a star stopped overhead of his birthplace leading people to it, he fed the masses with a few loaves of bread, walked on water, healed blindness and death with a touch.... but you feel like your church " smacks of superstition and belief in magic"?

And that's not even going into the proposed miracles of the OT (talking snakes and donkeys, people living in fish, cities being magically destroyed, storms and seas calming on demand, the sun stopping so that battles can continue)
 
scourge99 said:
??
So you believe a man rose from the dead after 3 days, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, a star stopped overhead of his birthplace leading people to it, he fed the masses with a few loaves of bread, walked on water, healed blindness and death with a touch.... but you feel like your church " smacks of superstition and belief in magic"?

And that's not even going into the proposed miracles of the OT (talking snakes and donkeys, people living in fish, cities being magically destroyed, storms and seas calming on demand, the sun stopping so that battles can continue)
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LOL! I'm thinking Life of Brian as I read your post. Good points.
 
ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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Have you tried praying about it?
 
Try some other denominations and even other catholic churches. You may find the one that has the right balance of ritual and actual faith that you need/desire.
 
ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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May I suggest you attend a few different Protestant churches, and see what you think about the manner of worship? You might find the experience to be illuminating... and if not, no harm done.

I would particularly suggest Baptist, Presbyterian, Wesleyan or Pentecostal/COG/COChr might suit you better, while still being the same religion.
 
Cephus said:
What good will talking to yourself do?
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Moderator's Warning:
Needlessly rude, Cephus. Interjecting mockery of deeply held beliefs into a thread like this is out of context and borders on trolling. If you are just here to make fun of believers, go make your own thread about it.
 
Goshin said:
May I suggest you attend a few different Protestant churches, and see what you think about the manner of worship? You might find the experience to be illuminating... and if not, no harm done.

I would particularly suggest Baptist, Presbyterian, Wesleyan or Pentecostal/COG/COChr might suit you better, while still being the same religion.
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Agreed. Catholicism is ritual heavy, anytime of the year from an outside perspective. Try a Lutheran church, its similar so the method won't shock you, but removes at least a bit of the ritualism.

Alternatively man-up :) and read the bible yourself, then find the church that most closely approximates the mandates of the NT.
 
ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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some Catholic churches have moved into contemporary services. You may search for those.
 
I'll back what Goshin said and even suggest that you might try a Bible-based, non-denominational church. Many ex-Catholics have found a comfortable home there and many of these churches will offer both a very conservative style service for their more conservative worshippers and a contemporary service.

You might also think about finding a modern-English translation of the Bible and read it for yourself. I would not hesitate to recommend the NIV, NASB, The Message or even the Holman Apologetics Study Bible which I just got and have been enjoying. All have thier advantages.
 
scourge99 said:
Or you could sacrifice a goat. The Greeks and Romans used to try that. :)
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All the blood sacrifice does is make the gods more inclined to listen to your prayers. You still have to pray to them.

Seeing as the OP worships a god that said he'd had all the blood sacrifices he wanted two thousand years ago and doesn't want more, I don't see the point in sacrificing a goat unless he wanted to start praying to a different god.
 
ElCid said:
Hey, I'm Catholic, but I don't like long Masses, and I get nervous about the hyper-ritualism during the Easter season. In fact, it's then I don't attend Mass much. The endless, obsessive ritualism turns me off. It smacks of superstition and belief in magic. On the flip-side, I love Jesus, and even the Catholic Church. Still, I have this problem. Any suggestions?
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You might want to try some denominations that are similar to Catholicism if you don't mind the ritual but just want less of it. For that, you might want to try an Anglican church. As I understand it Anglicanism is quite similar to Catholicism, and Anglican churches see themselves as a middle ground between Catholicism and Protestantism.

If you are looking for a whole new Christian denomination to dedicate yourself to, I suggest you first do research. Only you knows what you're really looking for, so you should look at what options are available to you. Wikipedia is always a good start.

List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then again, your options may be limited, since a place of worship for a particular religion may depend on where you live. The choices for churches in a rural area or suburb may be much more limited than the choices of churches for an urban area. Even then, churches are extremely individualized in how they operate and their tone. One city may have several Catholic churches in its vicinity, but they could have opposite tones to how they worship. So what it will come down to is you going to a church, checking out the ministers and the congregation, and seeing if you like it or not. If you do, keep going. If you don't, try some other churches.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Seeing as the OP worships a god that said he'd had all the blood sacrifices he wanted two thousand years ago and doesn't want more, I don't see the point in sacrificing a goat unless he wanted to start praying to a different god.
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He could also use it as an excuse to build that bbq pit in his back yard too.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
All the blood sacrifice does is make the gods more inclined to listen to your prayers. You still have to pray to them.
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I was tempted to mention your name but I wasn't certain about your beliefs so I played it safe.

Viktyr Korimir said:
Seeing as the OP worships a god that said he'd had all the blood sacrifices he wanted two thousand years ago and doesn't want more, I don't see the point in sacrificing a goat unless he wanted to start praying to a different god.
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Maybe the Christian god will get nostalgic. :shrug:
 
scourge99 said:
I was tempted to mention your name but I wasn't certain about your beliefs so I played it safe.
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We sacrifice food and booze. Jewelry when we want to show we're serious. There were occasional animal sacrifices in the old days, but it was never a common practice.
 
scourge99 said:
Because if catholic rituals make you uneasy then a bunch of people whipped up into hysteria babbling nonsense won't. :roll:
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You edited my reply... Pentecostal was only one of several suggestions and not top of the list... nor are all Penecostals like that. Do you have a purpose in this thread other than trying to annoy people with your contempt? If not, why don't you go play elsewhere.
 
Thanks, everybody. Surprisingly, I found the most beautiful expository writing on salvation by faith I've ever come across, while reading the works of the radical existentialist Liberal Protestant theologian, Rudolf Bultmann. While I don't agree with his existentialist interpretation of Christianity, I love his description of the Life of Faith. It's deep, very compelling, and resonates strongly. I always assumed that Protestant salvationist faith simply meant just believing. I now know there's an almost monastic quality to it, as expressed via detachment from the power of this world, the power of the flesh. Bultmann was a genius, but not for the reasons for which he's mostly remembered. He's the Devil's Advocate Who Failed, but won, in certain respects, in his failure. I'm leaning more toward a salvation by faith model than ever before. Catholicism is still stuck on salvation through good works, e.g., long, torturous Mass-marathons and ritualism. The Church's message is clear and very wrong, in this regard: "He who goes to Mass CONSTANTLY is saved." Christianity simply can't be that easy and/or primitive.
 
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samsmart said:
Anglicanism is quite similar to Catholicism, and Anglican churches see themselves as a middle ground between Catholicism and Protestantism.
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Just a quick FYI, the Anglican Church IS a Catholic church, just not a Roman one. They recite the Nicene creed, "I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church..." But you are right that their rituals and practices are somewhere between RC and Protestant rites.
 
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