My mom didn't tell me anything, its common sense, and, contrary to what many of you seem to think, nationalism isn't blind allegiance, it only means having pride in ones country. How can that be bad?nogoodname said:did your mom tell you "having to much of anything is bad"? Same with religion, conserative, liberal, or anything.
jfuh said:From the very fact that KKK, Neo-nazis are all joining the screams. The minute men claim that illegals are "invading" this country - that's very much xenophobia right there. Why don't they speak up against the illegals of eastern european origins? Only those from Mexico, that's very much racism. proof?
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=557
example of xeonophobia? and also
example of racism.
I'm pro-illegal? yawn
Again, that's not what I'm asking now is it? Why do you support keeping weapons such as Ak-47's on the streets making it easy for criminals to acquire?
Did you go speak to any law enforcement officer about the matter?
More circular reasoning?
Scalia is not conservative? Interesting. Care to prove that?
Because Facism is as anti-communist as you can get. Hitler was extremely anti-communist. Now if you feel otherwise, how about backing up your claim with some reputable source that Hitler was communist/socialist.
YOu still haven't shown how nationalism is not brainwashing.
Now on that note, have I said they weren't synonymous? I said that they are not equal.
Finally, plz show me how given the instance that patriotism and nationalism being synonymous dictates that there is a difference between american and brazillian nationalism? It's a self contradictory statement.
.
I said that? Please show where I said that.
I can love my country and not be a nationalist. I can love my guy friends and not be gay. I know that's incredibly difficult for you to comprehend.
Wow, you keep pressing on this issue it seems, how can I make this clear to you. I support am for the right to bear arms.
I very much like what I see, I very much love myself thank you. If you say I'm a traitor, perhaps you'd like to elaborate on that and state just how of what action I've done that makes me a traitor?
Seeing as you call Bush a sell out, is he a traitor to this country too?
Again it is note worthy that you do not deny being a traitor in your support of nationalism which is used to establish authoritarian rule the anti to the principles of this country.
I don't argue that at all, I said they are not equal.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/355979-post47.html
Your argument is nationalism, not patriotism, the two are completely different. Thus the neccessity for two different vocabulary and no, they are not synonomous with each other either.
The southern democrats/dixiecrats were very much racists pricks.
Many of them have now shifted over to the GOP ironically.
Sure your not,(sarcasm)I would be a hypocritical cheecky racists bastard in that sense, only problem is, I'm not a democrat.
Don't you realize by now that the argument of liberals/conservatives; gop/dems is only showing the side that is loosing the debate? Lame
Not a single source to prove your points. Look kiddo, you want to debate bring in some substance. All you have here is "because I say so" arguments.jamesrage said:The southern poverty law center article is nothing more than pure BS.They lied calling the minutemen racist,anti-immigration,xenophobes and vigilantees.So more than likely those quotes they have are not even real.Do you need me to pull up the definition of vigilante?
As for your claim why the minutemen are not as concerned about illegals from europe,is it because they are not over 10 million + illegals from europe in this country?
As for your claim the minute men are only concerned about illegals from mexico?That is a bullshit claim
http://www.nysun.com/article/19667
Civilian border patrols, like those that have generated fierce debate in the Southwest, are planned to start along New York's border with Canada on October 1.
The leader of the Minuteman Civilian Defense Corps, Chris Simcox, will be keynote speaker at a four-hour meeting planned for Saturday in Babylon, on Long Island. The meeting is intended to organize and train volunteers to patrol the Canadian border in New England and New York. Mr. Simcox's group started patrols in Arizona in April and plans to launch a nationwide effort in October, according to a spokeswoman for the Minutemen, Connie Hair
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2005/10/04/volunteers_beginning_watch_near_canada_line/
The civilian group, which previously focused its efforts on patrolling the Mexican border, is turning its attention to the US-Canada line. The group is seeking volunteers in eight northern states in an attempt to prevent people from entering the United States illegally and began watching border crossings in some of those states, including Vermont, over the weekend.
?
Yes you are a proillegal,do not hide it.Why else would you try to smear patrioits who want a border enforced and people to quit shiting on out laws?Why else would cite an article clearly lies about the minutemen?Only a proillegal would do that.
So you are anti second amendment.So how in the **** can you sit there and claim to be for american rights when you advocate restricting the hell out of other rights?
I know there are anti-second amendment individuals in law enforcement.If some of these cops had it their way,there would be no guns,everyone would submit DNA to a national DNA database and there would proably be no Fourth Amendment.
I proved to you the two were synonymous.
Can you prove he is not a conservative.What are his past rullings?
These guys didn't call themselves socialist or communist for no reason what so ever and they used these things to get the people to willingly push their country into a facist state.
You haven't proved that it is or even shown where it was required that there be brainwashing for nationalism.Are you trying to state that only a brainwashed individual is loyal and devoted to his country?
Do you see brainwashing in any part of the definition of nationalism?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nationalism
1 : loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
2 : a nationalist movement or government
Bull **** you said they were not synonymous.Do not sit there and ****en lie when I can pull up the exact post of yours where you said they were not synonymous.
Nationalism requires a devotion to one's nation,culture and interest.Which in a sense is Americanism because a part of our culture is the US constitution,therefore the only way American nationalism can be the same as Brazilian nationalism is if they had the same exact found,constitution,style of government and laws that we do.
Americanism is defined as "1: loyalty to the USA and its institutions(dictionar.com) .So therefore american patriotism/patrioitism is different than brazilian patrioitism/nationalism since american nationalism requires an alligiance to the united states and it's institutions.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nationalism
1 : loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
The fact you smear patiots who want a our border secure with bogus claims of racism proves you do not want our borders secured,more than likely support globalism which is anti-american.
You are a liberal,your idea of the right to bear arms probly applies to the appendages attached to your upper torso and not actual uninfringed ownership of guns like the second amendment says.
You are a proillegal,so that means you eithe support slave wages and or open borders which is anti-american and unpatriotic.
Alot of the politicians are traitors to this country on the issue of our borders,ports and jobs.
You really should not lie especially in the same thread you are posted the lie in.
See post#42
They even said what a good democrat is too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kkk
D. W. Griffith's The Birth of a Nation glorified the original Klan, which was by then a fading memory. His film was based on the book and play The Clansman and the book The Leopard's Spots, both by Thomas Dixon who said his purpose was "to revolutionize northern sentiment by a presentation of history that would transform every man in my audience into a good Democrat!"
Early RINOs?It seems democrats have always infested other parties with fake republicans.
Sure your not,(sarcasm)
Your arguing that because of what happened in the past that certian things are bad.So I brought up the past hoping that you would agree,but apparently I was wrong and that your issues with the past are a one way street that only apply to just your points of view.
akyron said:Sooo are you thinking a nationwide revolt of two year olds would turn out great? There is a reason for the parental bond.
It is more likely the children would suffer "heightened emotional disorders, fear, tension, and behavioral disorders.
....Sounds like a DNC gathering right there....I take it back. Maybe the two year old analogy works after all... nevermind.
jfuh said:Not a single source to prove your points. Look kiddo, you want to debate bring in some substance. All you have here is "because I say so" arguments.
Yawn, better luck next time with your bullshit.
jamesrage said:I have proved my point and you are a ****en liar.You lied about the minute men, you lied about nationalism and patriotism not being synonymous and you lied about American Nationalism not being different than Brazilian nationalism.If you are play like a dumb **** then do not bother wasting my time.Why the hell should anyone beleave you,are you a compulsive liar?
Indy said:Um, nationalism and patriotism are NOT synonymous. Check your facts.
Nationalism means putting your country as it is above all others in the world.
Patriotism is wanting whats best for your country.
While they sound similar, their goals are often drastically different.
StrawHat said:Denotation vs. Connotation. Go figure.
:bravo: Exactly right.talloulou said:Nationalism much like religioun can work for or against you. Fanaticism or extremism of anything can turn it sour.
Here I agree !talloulou said:Nationalism much like religion can work for or against you. Fanaticism or extremism of anything can turn it sour.
Nationalism deals only with the state. A Nationalist's loyalty is first and foremost to the state.earthworm said:Here I agree !
So 50% here think nationalism is not good ? I think they confuse this with extremism, and blind patriotism.
A true American will be more concerned with an Alaskan, as opposed to a Mexican, even if the Mexican is "next door"...
An American nationalist will want what is best for his country, even to his sacrifice.....learning English for one.......
That's fun, I certainly don't remember the last time I said, "I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America..."jfuh said:Nationalism deals only with the state. A Nationalist's loyalty is first and foremost to the state.
This country is founded on the principle of freedom and loyalty is only bound to the constitution, not the state.
Show me any nationalist country that did not use such powers for thier own benefit. I can give many examples of those that did. Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Kim Jun Ill, should I go on?
Nationalism is identical to patriotism? interesting - I don't hear anyone calling Hitler a patriot, or reference Musolini as a patriot.RightOfCenter said:That's fun, I certainly don't remember the last time I said, "I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America..."
Also, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, and Kim Jun Ill are not countries, they were leaders. I also don't think many Soviet citizens were very proud of their country. How can people having pride in their country be a bad thing? Just because some call it nationalism instead of patriotism (which are the same thing) doesn't mean they are extremists.
jfuh said:Nationalism is identical to patriotism?
interesting - I don't hear anyone calling Hitler a patriot, or reference Musolini as a patriot.
Naitonalism is also loyalty
What you've failed to show is any nationalist that was not abuse powers.
Also what you have failed to show is how nationalism is not against the principles of freedom that this country was founded on.
Really? If they are the same thing why not call Hitler or Stalin a patriot?jamesrage said:Anyone who can read a ****en dictionary knows that,apparently you must have never heard of a dictionary.
Yes they were/are and they were/are also hard core nationalists.jamesrage said:They were dictators/facist.
Yes I have, what you have failed to do is to distinguish between brain washing and nationalism which was asked of you since the begining of this thread.jamesrage said:You have failed to show how American nationalism is against the principles of freedom that this country was founded on or an abuse on powers..
jfuh said:Nationalism is identical to patriotism? interesting - I don't hear anyone calling Hitler a patriot, or reference Musolini as a patriot.
Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, and Kim Jun Ill are not nations no, but they were representative of the state, or in some cases were the "state". Thus being a nationalist would be 100% loyalty to them.
What you've failed to show is any nationalist that was not abuse powers.
Also what you have failed to show is how nationalism is not against the principles of freedom that this country was founded on.
jfuh said:Really? If they are the same thing why not call Hitler or Stalin a patriot?
Yes they were/are and they were/are also hard core nationalists.
Yes I have, what you have failed to do is to distinguish between brain washing and nationalism which was asked of you since the begining of this thread.
Take out the suffix of the word Nationalism and your left with nation. It's quite sad that you result to the same tactics that another in this thread have tried and proved useless.RightOfCenter said:Why do you think nationalism is 100% to the state? Where is it defined that way? The definition shows absolutely nothing proving that point. Yes, fascists in the past have been nationalist, but that doesn't mean everyone who ever took pride in their country was a fascist that couldn't think for themselves.
nationalism
n 1: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism] 2: the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other [ant: multiculturalism, internationalism] 3: the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination 4: the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals [ant: internationalism]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nationalism
Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it, well, how about every signer of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence?
Nationalism is an ideology holds that nations are the fundamental unit for human social life, and as such take precedence over any concepts of universalism as well as any foreign concept of nationalism. Nationalism makes certain cultural and political claims based upon this belief; in particular, the claim that the nation is "the only legitimate basis for the state", and that "each nation is entitled to its own state." Nationalism also refers to the specific ideologies of various nationalist movements, which make cultural and political claims on behalf of specific nations.- source
Really?jamesrage said:You have failed to show that nationalism/patrioitism requires brain washing.
My response in post #16jamesrage said:North Koreans are just brainwashed.It is not really nationalism.
jfuh said:Brainwashed with nationalist propaganda.
Those are incidences of nationalism being used to brain wash not nationalism requiring brainwashing.jfuh said:Really?
Let's see here then You're post #15
My response in post #16
So, again, I ask what's the distinction here between nationalism and brainwashing?
jfuh said:Take out the suffix of the word Nationalism and your left with nation. It's quite sad that you result to the same tactics that another in this thread have tried and proved useless.
Nationalism is loyalty to the state as is the case with N. Korea today. Anything else is simply spin.
As with all definitions we need to look at the actual contexts as well as true applications, here's a much more thorough source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NationalismNationalisms are never uniform or monolithic..
So nationalism brainwashes. Thank you for proving my point.jamesrage said:Those are incidences of nationalism being used to brain wash not nationalism requiring brainwashing.
So nice try,go spin your anti-american bullshit somewhere else.
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