N.J. family: Facebook photo of boy holding gun brought social workers to home

[radcen]

N.J. family: Facebook photo of boy holding gun brought social workers to home

N.J. family: Facebook photo of boy holding gun brought social workers to home | NJ.com

 

[American]

Looks like the family handled it correctly.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It appears that the anti-gun crowd now sees guns in the hands of youth as child abuse and that the NJ gov't morons agree:

With the lawyer listening in on the phone, Moore said he asked the investigators and police officers whether they had a warrant to search his home. When they said no, he asked them to leave. One of the child welfare officials would not identify herself when Moore asked for her name, he said.

The agents and the police officers left, and nothing has happened since, he said.

"I don't like what happened," he said. "You're not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that's not freedom; it's like tyranny."

State child welfare spokeswoman Kristine Brown said that when it receives a report of suspected abuse of neglect, it assigns a caseworker to follow up. She said law enforcement officers are asked to accompany caseworkers only if the caseworkers feel their safety could be compromised.

This editorial sums it up nicely:

The gun debate is a culture debate | Fox News

 

[MaggieD]

Looks like the family handled it correctly.

Why is a ten-year-old boy allowed to possess, and presumably use, a .22? I suppose it must be legal, but, when I think about it? It's a very dangerous tool for a child to have. Yeah, I know, all the people much more comfortable with guns than I will say, "WTF?? He should be able to!"

Would you also let your child have a WASP knife?

I'm not sure this is over yet...

 

[Fisher]

Why is a ten-year-old boy allowed to possess, and presumably use, a .22? I suppose it must be legal, but, when I think about it? It's a very dangerous tool for a child to have. Yeah, I know, all the people much more comfortable with guns than I will say, "WTF?? He should be able to!"

Would you also let your child have a WASP knife?

I'm not sure this is over yet...

I started using a 410 about that age :shrug:

 

[Helix]

I had a .22 at ten or eleven, but I was extremely closely supervised with it.

in other news, one of my FB friends posted a pic of his five year old trying to hold what looked like an assault rifle. I question the wisdom of that.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Why is a ten-year-old boy allowed to possess, and presumably use, a .22? I suppose it must be legal, but, when I think about it? It's a very dangerous tool for a child to have. Yeah, I know, all the people much more comfortable with guns than I will say, "WTF?? He should be able to!"

Would you also let your child have a WASP knife?

I'm not sure this is over yet...

I shot my first gun at age 8. I was taught to have a healthy respect for guns. I've yet to shoot anyone with a gun or shoot myself with a gun...even in my pre-teen years. Not saying it can't happen. But I would wager that the chances are less if the child is taught properly.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why is a ten-year-old boy allowed to possess, and presumably use, a .22? I suppose it must be legal, but, when I think about it? It's a very dangerous tool for a child to have. Yeah, I know, all the people much more comfortable with guns than I will say, "WTF?? He should be able to!"

Would you also let your child have a WASP knife?

I'm not sure this is over yet...

You are missing the point. The picture, posted on Facebook, showed a proud child holding a prized possession. I am sure that he is allowed to use it only with parental supervision, as there is no evidence to the contrary. Many more children are killed and injured on bicycles than by using guns, and often allowed to use their bicycles totally unsupervised. At least he had the good sense and training not to place his finger on the trigger, something that Feinstein has yet to learn even after recieving her CCW training.

 

[Lutherf]

Yeah Maggie...10 is plenty old enough for a .22. I will assume that it was usually kept with the rest of the family rifles because, obviously, it's not a toy but when out with Dad and/or Mom....why the heck not?

 

[Lutherf]

You are missing the point. The picture, posted on Facebook, showed a proud child holding a prized possession. I am sure that he is allowed to use it only with parental supervision, as there is no evidence to the contrary. Many more children are killed and injured on bicycles than by using guns, and often allowed to use their bicycles totally unsupervised. At least he had the good sense and training not to place his finger on the trigger, something that Feinstein has yet to learn even after recieving her CCW training.

He looks like a very proud and happy young man who, obviously, has retained more basic firearms handling instruction than the psycho Feinstein.

 

[VanceMack]

I began shooting at a much younger age than this kid (approx 4-5 years old). I inherited an 1898 model Winchester 22lr from my fathers father...never met him and its the only thing I ever saw of his. It is in my gun safe at the house today though I gave it to my son years ago. I taught all 4 of my kids to shoot using that same weapon when they were about the same age. Even though it was 'mine' it wasnt tucked under my bed at night. It was in a gun safe then and it is in a gun safe now. I have purchased Ruger 10/22s for each of my grandkids, including the twins born in December.

Why people freak out about kids and guns is just beyond me. Guns were never magical, mystical, scary...they were just guns. We went shooting a lot. When my kids wanted to go shooting, if we could we did. If we couldnt, they didnt obsess about them. They are just guns for Gods sake. Teach weapon safety, teach proper use, teach respect...kids have been raised around firearms since there initially WERE firearms.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yeah Maggie...10 is plenty old enough for a .22. I will assume that it was usually kept with the rest of the family rifles because, obviously, it's not a toy but when out with Dad and/or Mom....why the heck not?

The child just turned 11 and his father is a firearms instructor:

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state’s hunter safety course.

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” Nappen told Fox News. “If half of Hollywood could follow that rule we’d be thankful.”

Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

 

[iliveonramen]

It appears that the anti-gun crowd now sees guns in the hands of youth as child abuse and that the NJ gov't morons agree:



This editorial sums it up nicely:

The gun debate is a culture debate | Fox News

I'm sure it has less to do with a judgement call by child services and more of a CYA.

There's also another possibility...they get a call of potential abuse involving children and weapons. They don't send anyone out. Kid kills himself, other kid, whatever. Now child services is put through the ringer because someone tipped them off of possible neglect and they didn't do anything.

 

[tech30528]

Bought my son's first 22 for him when he was 9. Of course I keep it with the rest of them, he is not legal to "own" it until he is 18. Prior to the purchase he was trained thru the Appleseed program, a two day safety/ history/ marksmanship program. It's just not that unusual for those of us who are not skittish sheeple. Last time we were target shooting at home when it was his turn I handed him the rifle, he asked me "Is it safe?" I was so proud. Of course, it was safe. Mag out, safety on, bolt locked back, chamber flag installed. We do that when changing shooters every time just to be sure that it is done the same way every time.

It's almost Easter and time for our annual "Easter Egg Hunt". This is soooo much fun. We boil a couple dozen eggs and place them out in the woods. On the ground, on fallen trees, propped on branches and then the kids shoot them with 22s. Grown men giggle like little girls doing this. The targets are cheap and the animals clean it all up. We tried raw eggs, they just don't splatter the way you might think. Much better boiled. You can make it more challenging and cheaper if you buy the medium eggs.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'm sure it has less to do with a judgement call by child services and more of a CYA.

There's also another possibility...they get a call of potential abuse involving children and weapons. They don't send anyone out. Kid kills himself, other kid, whatever. Now child services is put through the ringer because someone tipped them off of possible neglect and they didn't do anything.

What, if any, action did CPS take? How are they "covered" by simply showing up, making noise and not even interviewing anyone? I suspect that a simple telephone call would have been a better "investigating" technique. If they lack enough to even get a warrant then the home visit is simply harassment; they should be sued. Attempting to get a warrant based on "information" in the complaint, and placing that complaint along with warrant rejecton notice in the "case file" is plenty of CYA. Your 4th amendment rights do not vanish simply based upon an anonymous tip based on a facebook picture.

 

[iliveonramen]

What, if any, action did CPS take? How are they "covered" by simply showing up, making noise and not even interviewing anyone? I suspect that a simple telephone call would have been a better "investigating" technique. If they lack enough to even get a warrant then the home visit is simply harassment; they should be sued. Attempting to get a warrant based on "information" in the complaint, and placing that complaint along with warrant rejecton notice in the "case file" is plenty of CYA. .

I'm not a social worker but I'm sure there is some good information they get from showing up and talking to the guy. How manicured his house is, his appearance, how he responds to questions. I'm sure those things can indicate if someone is likely to have guns strewn around his house or if he's some neglegent druggy or something. I'm guessing that they were happy enough to move on and drop the issue.

It seems like this guy though was more than happy to call the press and play into his view of him being a matyr being squeezed by the government for owning a gun.

Your 4th amendment rights do not vanish simply based upon an anonymous tip based on a facebook picture.

I'm not sure how it vanished....

 

[Dittohead not!]

You are missing the point. The picture, posted on Facebook, showed a proud child holding a prized possession. I am sure that he is allowed to use it only with parental supervision, as there is no evidence to the contrary. Many more children are killed and injured on bicycles than by using guns, and often allowed to use their bicycles totally unsupervised. At least he had the good sense and training not to place his finger on the trigger, something that Feinstein has yet to learn even after recieving her CCW training.

View attachment 67144681

View attachment 67144682

That top picture is a lot scarier than the bottom one.

Every kid should have a gun and be taught how to use it safely.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'm not a social worker but I'm sure there is some good information they get from showing up and talking to the guy. How manicured his house is, his appearance, how he responds to questions. I'm sure those things can indicate if someone is likely to have guns strewn around his house or if he's some neglegent druggy or something. I'm guessing that they were happy enough to move on and drop the issue.

It seems like this guy though was more than happy to call the press and play into his view of him being a matyr being squeezed by the government for owning a gun.


I'm not sure how it vanished....

When the police and DCF started making "demands" without any warrant, that violates the 4th amendment:

The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

 

[CanadaJohn]

I can actually one-up this one - here in Ontario, a little girl drew a picture in class that showed her father holding a gun to protect her and the family against a burglar - the teacher called the Children's Aid Society and the police were called. The father was arrested at his worksite, the mother was taken into custody at the home, and the girl and her siblings were taken by Children's Aid "for safety". The father and mother were both interrogated, the father kept in custody overnight - the house was searched - no weapon was found - the father didn't have one.

After the fact, no one in authority apologized to the family - not the school, not the school board, not the children's aid, not the police - all claimed they acted appropriately under the circumstances.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That top picture is a lot scarier than the bottom one.

Every kid should have a gun and be taught how to use it safely.

I would not go that far. Not every kid has such an interest or comes from a family that shares that interest and can afford to indulge that interest. Some kids are going to get that opportunity and some are not, just as with horses, musical instruments, boats, power tools, motorcycles and radio controlled aircraft.

 

[iliveonramen]

When the police and DCF started making "demands" without any warrant, that violates the 4th amendment:



Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

That's not a "raid". It seems as if he told them to leave and get a warrant if they wanted to check his house. Seems like normal police business.... Typically a "raid" includes busting in doors, detaining people, and going through their **** if they want you to or not. I'm shocked that Fox news Commentary is trying to fuel fear of government officials busting down your door though!

 

[Lutherf]

I can actually one-up this one - here in Ontario, a little girl drew a picture in class that showed her father holding a gun to protect her and the family against a burglar - the teacher called the Children's Aid Society and the police were called. The father was arrested at his worksite, the mother was taken into custody at the home, and the girl and her siblings were taken by Children's Aid "for safety". The father and mother were both interrogated, the father kept in custody overnight - the house was searched - no weapon was found - the father didn't have one.

After the fact, no one in authority apologized to the family - not the school, not the school board, not the children's aid, not the police - all claimed they acted appropriately under the circumstances.

Wow!! There are just so many things wrong with that....

 

[radcen]

What, if any, action did CPS take? How are they "covered" by simply showing up, making noise and not even interviewing anyone? I suspect that a simple telephone call would have been a better "investigating" technique. If they lack enough to even get a warrant then the home visit is simply harassment; they should be sued. Attempting to get a warrant based on "information" in the complaint, and placing that complaint along with warrant rejecton notice in the "case file" is plenty of CYA. Your 4th amendment rights do not vanish simply based upon an anonymous tip based on a facebook picture.

A telephone call wouldn't be enough. Might as well just ignore anything and everything that gets called in. Wanting to "inspect" the weapons was too much. CPS following up is legally required, so we got that... a legally-mandated cursory interview at the home on the doorstep would have been sufficient in this case.

 

[radcen]

I'm not a social worker but I'm sure there is some good information they get from showing up and talking to the guy. How manicured his house is, his appearance, how he responds to questions. I'm sure those things can indicate if someone is likely to have guns strewn around his house or if he's some neglegent druggy or something. I'm guessing that they were happy enough to move on and drop the issue.

It seems like this guy though was more than happy to call the press and play into his view of him being a matyr being squeezed by the government for owning a gun.

I'm not sure how it vanished....

According to a talk show I was listening to, the police outright accused the father of hiding something and being shady because he refused them access.

 

[Dirt Racer]

I'm sure it has less to do with a judgement call by child services and more of a CYA.

There's also another possibility...they get a call of potential abuse involving children and weapons. They don't send anyone out. Kid kills himself, other kid, whatever. Now child services is put through the ringer because someone tipped them off of possible neglect and they didn't do anything.

I agree with you on everything you mentioned with the exception they wanted to inventory his guns. Why would they need to do that? Why wouldn't they ask to see the particular rifle in question? When they showed up and they were all safely locked in a safe that should have told them they were out of bounds. I have no issue with checking in to make sure everyone is safe, but this went over the line. Luckily they had the sense to call the lawyer and handle it properly.