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My View on the "Debt" Ceiling

The GOP is not proposing to repeal it now are they? Delay.



Then why have a ceiling at all?



Talk to the Democrats about terrorist and hostage metaphors...

Who knows why we have the debt ceiling? It really doesn't matter why since it is not an option to fail to raise it.
You will see soon enough. It's going to be a hoot.

As an aside. I thought that "uncertainty" was bad for the economy and is slowing the growth of jobs. Why then would the Republicans choose a path that guarantees uncertainty on a regular basis? Do the want to hurt our economy? Why should we let them get away with it?
doesn't every American deserve the best economy and the best chance at happiness we can provide?
 
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Who knows why we have the debt ceiling?

Are you kidding me?? You don't know why a debt ceiling exists? You mean, you couldn't logically reason it out. Maybe to restrain spending and limit the amount of debt this nation accrues??? Maybe???

It really doesn't matter why since it is not an option to fail to raise it.

Of course it is an option. Obama and the Democrats are lying when they threaten default. There's far more monthly revenue than debt service payments. So don't buy into the President's lies.
 
Not only is it not "perfect" - it completely misses the point.

Ok, so...
You borrow money from others to buy a house.
You borrow money from others to buy a car.
You borrow money from others to buy groceries.
You borrow money from others to buy clothes.

You pay others for the privilege of borrowing money to buy a house.
You pay others for the privilege of borrowing money to buy a car.
You pay others for the privilege of borrowing money to buy groceries.
You pay others for the privilege of borrowing money to buy clothes.

Only you don't own the house - your creditors do.
Only you don't own your car - your creditors do.
Only you didn't buy your groceries - your creditors did.
Only you didn't buy your clothes - your creditors did.

Your creditors are funding your entire lifestyle, not you.

Now you find yourself in "rough times" and can't pay your creditors.
Now you need to borrow money from your creditors... to pay your creditors.

...and you feel you have some sort of "right" to their money?
...because you now find yourself in "rough times???"

Just think how much easier it would be if your family could print money like the US Govt. does. That changes everything. The US govt. debt is nothng like a family debt.
No real economist ever expects or even wants us to pay off Govt. debt. We will never pay back a cent so quit getting upset about it. You or your offspring will never have to pay it back. We never even paid the debt from WWII either. It's stupid and anyone that says otherwise is a fool.
 
Are you kidding me?? You don't know why a debt ceiling exists? You mean, you couldn't logically reason it out. Maybe to restrain spending and limit the amount of debt this nation accrues??? Maybe???



Of course it is an option. Obama and the Democrats are lying when they threaten default. There's far more monthly revenue than debt service payments. So don't buy into the President's lies.

Like I said, spending levels are determined in budgets, the debt ceiling is raised to pay for those budgets. It's like finishing a big meal at a restaurant and THEN saying "Sorry but I can't afford it, I'm watching my pennies." That person is a prick don't you think?. Are you like that? Do you want your nation to do that?

You will see soon enough what happens with the debt ceiling and it isn't going to be what you want. Whatever that is. It's like Pearl Harbor and the T's have awakened a sleeping giant.
 
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Like I said, spending levels are determined in budgets, the debt ceiling is raised to pay for those budgets. It's like finishing a big meal at a restaurant and THEN saying "Sorry but I can't afford it, I'm watching my pennies." That person is a prick don't you think?. Are you like that? Do you want your nation to do that?

You will see soon enough what happens with the debt ceiling and it isn't going to be what you want. Whatever that is. It's like Pearl Harbor and the T's have awakened a sleeping giant.

Wow...just wow.

Maybe, you know, just maybe, you should not have ordered the meal in the first place. How about that? Makes far more sense that ordering something that you know you cannot pay for.
 
Wow...just wow.

Maybe, you know, just maybe, you should not have ordered the meal in the first place. How about that? Makes far more sense that ordering something that you know you cannot pay for.

Just maybe you could listen when I say THE MEAL HAS ALREADY BEEN EATEN. That is not the time to bail on the bill and we won't and there is nothing Boner can do about it. There is no chance that we will not raise the debt ceiling. It would be the end of Republicans for 100 years and they know it. Bet on it.
 
Just maybe you could listen when I say THE MEAL HAS ALREADY BEEN EATEN. That is not the time to bail on the bill and we won't and there is nothing Boner can do about it. There is no chance that we will not raise the debt ceiling. It would be the end of Republicans for 100 years and they know it. Bet on it.

Yeah, I know...don't order the meal, i.e., don't appropriate dollars that you don't have to spend. It's not like we haven't been deficit spending for decades...lets try not raising spending every single year. Mmkay???????
 
Wow...just wow.

Maybe, you know, just maybe, you should not have ordered the meal in the first place. How about that? Makes far more sense that ordering something that you know you cannot pay for.

But we can pay for it. We just have to borrow to do it. The U.S. has virtually unlimited borrowing power.
 
Just think how much easier it would be if your family could print money like the US Govt. does. That changes everything. The US govt. debt is nothng like a family debt.
No real economist ever expects or even wants us to pay off Govt. debt. We will never pay back a cent so quit getting upset about it. You or your offspring will never have to pay it back. We never even paid the debt from WWII either. It's stupid and anyone that says otherwise is a fool.

But we can pay for it. We just have to borrow to do it. The U.S. has virtually unlimited borrowing power.

Wow, I knew it was bad - but in all honesty, I NEVER suspected it was this bad. The left actually thinks money is free, that we can print as much as we want, that we can borrow as much as we want... and of course spend as much as we want - without nary a consequence.

Folks - this is the very definition of immorality, greed and avarice.
 
Wow, I knew it was bad - but in all honesty, I NEVER suspected it was this bad. The left actually thinks money is free, that we can print as much as we want, that we can borrow as much as we want... and of course spend as much as we want - without nary a consequence.

Folks - this is the very definition of immorality, greed and avarice.

I, for one, never said anything even remotely close to that.

We CAN borrow as much as we want; the vast majority of our debt is owed to OURSELVES. I never said we could do it with "nary a consequence." Eventually, there will be a consequence. But it's not right around the corner. Debt is paid by GROWTH, not wanton cuts, and in a recession or slow recovery, borrowing spurs growth.
 
Then don't order the meal in the first place! Why is this such a ****ing difficult concept!

because progressives aren't ordering meals for themselves in the real world examples. they are buying votes by ordering meals for everyone else.
 
I, for one, never said anything even remotely close to that.

We CAN borrow as much as we want; the vast majority of our debt is owed to OURSELVES. I never said we could do it with "nary a consequence." Eventually, there will be a consequence. But it's not right around the corner. Debt is paid by GROWTH, not wanton cuts, and in a recession or slow recovery, borrowing spurs growth.

there are already consequences, but you have no idea how close we are to a devastating one, you are just pretending to have som e actual insight.

all the so called experts are phonies as well. they didn't know in the early 70's that the system was coming apart, and they didn't know in the late 2000's in time to do anything about it either. the system is made up of cheerleaders pretending to be economists.
 
there are already consequences, but you have no idea how close we are to a devastating one, you are just pretending to have som e actual insight.

all the so called experts are phonies as well. they didn't know in the early 70's that the system was coming apart, and they didn't know in the late 2000's in time to do anything about it either. the system is made up of cheerleaders pretending to be economists.

The only way we're close to a "devastating consequence" is if we default, and even THEN it wouldn't be nearly as bad as, say, Greece's default. The U.S. dollar is the most trusted currency in the world. More than half the U.S. currency in circulation is circulated outside of the United States. Even after our credit rating got downgraded to AA+ (thank you, GOP), our debt was still deemed by investors to be more trustworthy than the debt of many countries that maintained AAA credit ratings. And yields on treasury bonds are so low that we're essentially getting paid to borrow money.

The right has claimed doom and gloom since the day Obama was inaugurated, when they started giving a rat's ass about the debt again, but it's not a crisis, no matter how much you guys try to steer the bus off the cliff.
 
We will never pay down one cent of the debt and we don't ever need to. Believe it or not the finances of the most powerful nation in the world has NOTHING to do with "family" finances. The analogy is infantile and wrong.

You're incorrect. At some point those who are backing our debt cease to do so. At some point the money we print loses its value. Once that happens printing more useless paper is not the answer, as the commitments we've made to our people, to the welfare programs then default. The social security checks stop, the public sector furloughs to save money, federal programs are unfunded because the money we use to fund it has little value. I urge you to read up on the last 3 years of the Greek default.

The idea that the U.S. can run up say 500 Trillion in debt with no ceiling in sight and the rest of the world will be fine with that is naive at best.
 
The only way we're close to a "devastating consequence" is if we default, and even THEN it wouldn't be nearly as bad as, say, Greece's default. The U.S. dollar is the most trusted currency in the world. More than half the U.S. currency in circulation is circulated outside of the United States. Even after our credit rating got downgraded to AA+ (thank you, GOP), our debt was still deemed by investors to be more trustworthy than the debt of many countries that maintained AAA credit ratings. And yields on treasury bonds are so low that we're essentially getting paid to borrow money.

The right has claimed doom and gloom since the day Obama was inaugurated, when they started giving a rat's ass about the debt again, but it's not a crisis, no matter how much you guys try to steer the bus off the cliff.

sheep claimed we weren't close to any devastating consequences plenty of times in our history, and they kept that opinion right up until we hit devastating consequences.

this stuff is real simple. We are a nation of hundreds of millions, that we can't live in our means today indicates the progressive system of governance that has dominated the political landscape since the early 1930s is an abject failure. If we can't live with what we have now, when can we?

We can of course, but the progressives can't win elections in such a manner. so future generations have to support this generation.
 
anyone who tries to tie the debt ceiling to unrelated stuff thereby causing a default, should be tried for treason.
 
Then why have a ceiling at all?

We shouldn't have one at all. Not in its current form. If there is going to be a debt limit it needs to be set and must come to bear BEFORE Congress appropriates funds, not after. Why should the government have the power to decide to not pay funds it has already legally agreed to pay? That's asinine and dangerous.

The debt ceiling in its current form is purely a political tool. It serves as a leveraging tool so that a minority party of Congress can use the threat of not raising the debt limit (and potentially causing the US to default in its debts, resulting in global economic catastrophe) to get some sort of concession from the majority on a utterly irrelevant issue.
 
because progressives aren't ordering meals for themselves in the real world examples. they are buying votes by ordering meals for everyone else.

Irrelevant. If that's true, defaulting on our debt and destroying the global economy won't fix that or anything else.
 
I, for one, never said anything even remotely close to that.
You're right and I apologize. I got a little carried away - no, I got a lot carried away, mostly by the other quote and it was wrong to attribute to your post the same sentiment I did to it.

We CAN borrow as much as we want; the vast majority of our debt is owed to OURSELVES. I never said we could do it with "nary a consequence." Eventually, there will be a consequence. But it's not right around the corner. Debt is paid by GROWTH, not wanton cuts, and in a recession or slow recovery, borrowing spurs growth.
I do however disagree with this - or at least the conclusions drawn from several very general accuracies. If the premise is that we are borrowing from ourselves - and in one sense, that *may* be accurate - but if that is the premise, that "we can borrow as much as we want" because we are just borrowing from ourselves, that statement can't possibly be true - UNLESS we have unlimited capital ourselves. And of course, we don't.

Yes, the majority of the debt is - technically - debt we owe "ourselves." However it is not "we" who are spending "our" money. It is not "we" who are borrowing from ourselves to spend on ourselves. It is the government; it is our politicians who are doing that. They solicit and collect money from us, under a proviso that said monies will be paid back to us, with interest.

In fact, it's impossible for someone to borrow money from themselves except they redefine the meaning of the word "borrow." We might, say, have a pile of savings into which we dip for monies to spend however. But that isn't "borrowing" unless those monies be earmarked for some other purpose - and even then such "borrowing" is only a technicality.

Yes, growth helps pay for debt, but as debt increases growth [necessarily] decreases. So NO, borrowing DOES NOT spur growth - SAVE (and this is important) SAVE in the specific circumstance where such borrowing goes to increase the machine, the processes that enable growth - e.g. a company borrowing to buy a new piece of manufacturing equipment, or expand their operation such that what they produce can increase, etc. But even then, growth is predicated on there being clientele who have the resources to purchase whatever such processes produce. Wanton spending predicated on wanton borrowing does nothing to spur growth if all we are doing - and that IS all we are doing - is redistributing the monies borrowed.

And yes, the consequences for such an irresponsible fiscal policy are not immediate. But that only explains why our government gets away with their irresponsible borrowing and spending - because the consequences aren't immediate.
 
We shouldn't have one at all. Not in its current form. If there is going to be a debt limit it needs to be set and must come to bear BEFORE Congress appropriates funds, not after. Why should the government have the power to decide to not pay funds it has already legally agreed to pay? That's asinine and dangerous.
So how do you propose we turn that process around?
 
No credit, no modern capitalism. You need to hit the economics books harder. Your memes are in conflict.
You mean, no credit, no modern liberalism/progressivism. It would seem your memes are the ones in conflict.
 
Wow, I knew it was bad - but in all honesty, I NEVER suspected it was this bad. The left actually thinks money is free, that we can print as much as we want, that we can borrow as much as we want... and of course spend as much as we want - without nary a consequence.

Folks - this is the very definition of immorality, greed and avarice.

And your comment is the hight of stupidity. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous to America. The total lack of understanding of economics you represent poses a REAL threat to our security, economy and our way of life. And you are a tiny minority that can't understand that majority rules here. We will not let your foolishness ruin everyones lives,. You can bet on that.
 
You're incorrect. At some point those who are backing our debt cease to do so. At some point the money we print loses its value. Once that happens printing more useless paper is not the answer, as the commitments we've made to our people, to the welfare programs then default. The social security checks stop, the public sector furloughs to save money, federal programs are unfunded because the money we use to fund it has little value. I urge you to read up on the last 3 years of the Greek default.

The idea that the U.S. can run up say 500 Trillion in debt with no ceiling in sight and the rest of the world will be fine with that is naive at best.

LOL You are calling me naive while comparing the US with Greece? I never said we can run up 500 trillion but Japan has TWICE our debt to GDP ratio without ill effect.
We are far from having to worry about debt and our deficit is half what it was when Obama took office. Isn't that what you asked for?
 
And your comment is the hight of stupidity. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous to America. The total lack of understanding of economics you represent poses a REAL threat to our security, economy and our way of life. And you are a tiny minority that can't understand that majority rules here. We will not let your foolishness ruin everyones lives,. You can bet on that.
:lamo Well at least I know how to spell.

But seriously, I'd love to see your stats on us being a "tiny minority" - let alone how a simple majority gives anyone a mandate to do whatever they please, and that in total disregard of the rest of the nation. That, my friend, is called "tyranny of the masses" and is precisely why a simple majority DOES NOT have any such mandates in a representative republic such as ours.

And finally, what makes you think I have the remotest concern about "your way of life?" I don't. I'm absolutely opposed to the entitlement mentality in all its ugliest forms. It's "your way" of life that is threatening our very existence, that poses THE real threat to our security, economy and the AMERICAN way of life.
 
Irrelevant. If that's true, defaulting on our debt and destroying the global economy won't fix that or anything else.

defaulting on credit is generally the way people in bad financial standing ultimately stop living on credit. so it does fix their erroneous behavior.

want to try again?
 
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