My View on the "Debt" Ceiling

[sangha]

No, it was caused by overextending credit to millions of people who eventually defaulted on their loans because they couldn't pay their debts. Did that result in a shortage of credit? ABSOLUTELY. No sane person with half a brain would lend more money to people who couldn't afford to pay for the monies they already lent them.

Wrong

The # of defaults was relatively minimal, and could have been covered. However, because it spooked corporate america, they stopped extending credit to the insurers. The refusal to offer credit was what caused the crisis.

In addition, as HOJ pointed out, the debts relevant to the crisis were not govt debts; They were private debt.

So much for your baloney about how govt debt caused the last financial crisis

Well freeking DUH! But what do you think would happen then, once we gave our politicians a virtual BLANK CHECK???

Raising the debt ceiling is not a virtual blank check. Raising the ceiling does not authorize the govt to spend a penny, nor does it increase the debt

Actually, I most definitely do. It is quite clear you haven't a clue what either word means, let alone how any of this works beyond what you've been fed. And frankly, it scares the living beejeesus out of me that there are actually people in this nation who have swallowed that pill, let alone that they believe it!

Ok, I'm going to try this ONE MORE TIME then that's it.

Must we pay our debts? ABSOLUTELY. NEVER have I implied otherwise. You're completely misconstruing what I'm saying.
Are we going to raise the debt ceiling this time? ABSOLUTELY. Otherwise the above.

No, by equating the debt ceiling with increases in debt, and arguing against increasing the debt, you are clearly arguing in support of the US govt not paying it's bills.


And the right wing republicans have *never* reined in spending. They just don't want to pay for the spending they authorized.

That is both irresponsible and hypocritical.

 

[JMak00]

But we can pay for it. We just have to borrow to do it. The U.S. has virtually unlimited borrowing power.

Yeah, right up until we are borrowing 100% of our GDP which is right around the corner.

 

[JMak00]

We shouldn't have one at all. Not in its current form. If there is going to be a debt limit it needs to be set and must come to bear BEFORE Congress appropriates funds, not after. Why should the government have the power to decide to not pay funds it has already legally agreed to pay? That's asinine and dangerous.

Well, two things are happening here - there's the authorization to fund government operations; and then there's the legal tool, called an appropriation, to actually disburse dollars to be spent. WRT to the debt ceiling, what you're talking about is what Congress has authorized to be spent and the need to raise the debt ceiling so we can borrow more money to actually disburse via appropriations. An authorization is not a legal obligation, it is simply a legislative mechanism to set funding levels. The appropriation is what matters.

Your opinion on the use of the debt ceiling is wholly ignorant and without any reasonable basis. The ACA is hardly an irrelevant issue as demonstrated by the massive implementation screw up and that it adds massively to the federal budget deficit.

The debt ceiling in its current form is purely a political tool. It serves as a leveraging tool so that a minority party of Congress can use the threat of not raising the debt limit (and potentially causing the US to default in its debts, resulting in global economic catastrophe) to get some sort of concession from the majority on a utterly irrelevant issue.[/QUOTE]

 

[iguanaman]

When you buy something on credit it is generally because you can’t afford to buy it outright.

I never claimed we can’t afford deficits, as that doesn’t even make sense. We can afford them, until we reach the point we can’t.

If you are buying using deficit spending, you aren’t paying for it. Someone else is, and you are promising to pay them later. So the only thing I see ridiculous is your feigned indignation of my accurate analogy

We are paying in the future because we must SPEND for the future. It is how we grow. The deficit is half of what it was in 2009 and going lower. It is under control.
The danger is that we will fail to spend enough on infrastructure, education and job training to compete in a increasingly competitive world. Being left behind is all we should really be worrying about.

 

[JMak00]

We are paying in the future because we must SPEND for the future. It is how we grow. The deficit is half of what it was in 2009 and going lower. It is under control.
The danger is that we will fail to spend enough on infrastructure, education and job training to compete in a increasingly competitive world. Being left behind is all we should really be worrying about.

Oh goodness, cuz despite massive amounts of federal spending our education system is broken, job training has failed, etc. This investment crap, where the central government directs the economy does not work.

Now, while cool the deficit is cut in half, so what? We're still piling up govt debt. That is out of control and with the already deficit-ridden SS and Medicare...there is no control, yet.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Oh goodness, cuz despite massive amounts of federal spending our education system is broken, job training has failed, etc. This investment crap, where the central government directs the economy does not work.

Now, while cool the deficit is cut in half, so what? We're still piling up govt debt. That is out of control and with the already deficit-ridden SS and Medicare...there is no control, yet.

You don't understand - with these people there is no such thing as "debt" - at least in the negative sense.

Debt for them is a good thing;
Debt is how we grow;
Debt is how we fund our growth;
Debt is how we pay for all our spending.
And it's impossible to accumulate too much debt, let alone to our detriment.
We have unlimited borrowing power; we will never reach a point in time where people will refuse to lend us more.
Debt therefore is good, sound fiscal policy; and ever increasing debt is responsible fiscal policy.

My point is that they truly believe this, that attempting to "reason" with such basic economic illiteracy is pointless.

 

[Kushinator]

Actually, it is true: Federal Spending Exceeds Federal Revenue by More than $1 Trillion

Read the data provided before running to heritage.org to feed your confirmation bias. On a July 2012 - July 2013 basis, the federal deficit was roughly $720 billion. This year over year figure continues to trend downward each and every month.

And just to illustrate our exponential spending - there's this that illustrates it perfectly:

Not really. It only shows you a massive decline in purchasing power. This would be a problem if per capita disposable income did not exceed total inflation by 500% in that time.

 

[iguanaman]

Oh goodness, cuz despite massive amounts of federal spending our education system is broken, job training has failed, etc. This investment crap, where the central government directs the economy does not work.

Now, while cool the deficit is cut in half, so what? We're still piling up govt debt. That is out of control and with the already deficit-ridden SS and Medicare...there is no control, yet.

Boy it sounds like you need to start looking around for a new country. This one is too much of a mess for you.

 

[Sietske22]

we will not default on our debt.

Boehner won't allow it. He doesn't hate America that much, even if the Tea Party does.

 

[ARealConservative]

Oh goodness, cuz despite massive amounts of federal spending our education system is broken, job training has failed, etc. This investment crap, where the central government directs the economy does not work.

Now, while cool the deficit is cut in half, so what? We're still piling up govt debt. That is out of control and with the already deficit-ridden SS and Medicare...there is no control, yet.

it's like a sickness with them.

 

[EdwinWillers]

we will not default on our debt.

Boehner won't allow it. He doesn't hate America that much, even if the Tea Party does.

:wow:

 

[Threegoofs]

:wow:

See? Even Willers knows both Boehner AND the Tea Party hate the nation almost as much as they hate Obama. Of course, thats the currentt Nation... before they 'get their country back'.

 

[EdwinWillers]

See? Even Willers knows both Boehner AND the Tea Party hate the nation almost as much as they hate Obama. Of course, thats the currentt Nation... before they 'get their country back'.

Lying and misrepresenting my posts only makes your position that much weaker.

 

[mbeck]

You need to watch "End of the Road, How Money Became Worthless". It's on Netflix and it's free. Educate yourself please.

 

[EdwinWillers]

"Fiat currency" - will be the end of us all.

 

[mbeck]

Yes it will. Thank you Edwin.

"Fiat currency" - will be the end of us all.

 

[head of joaquin]

we will not default on our debt.

Boehner won't allow it. He doesn't hate America that much, even if the Tea Party does.

I disagree. The default is a certainty. The tea party is that crazy and Boehner is that craven.

 

[head of joaquin]

"Fiat currency" - will be the end of us all.

Oh dear God, the fiat currency/gold meme. It's like these obsessions orbit round and round the conservative mind.

 

[head of joaquin]

See? Even Willers knows both Boehner AND the Tea Party hate the nation almost as much as they hate Obama. Of course, thats the currentt Nation... before they 'get their country back'.

I think Willers, like all conservatives in the thrall of the tea party mesmerism, wants the country to default. He's that deep into Obamaphobia. Just like the rest of them

 

[Kushinator]

I think Willers, like all conservatives in the thrall of the tea party mesmerism, wants the country to default. He's that deep into Obamaphobia. Just like the rest of them

It would be like, their, like, greatest achievement.

 

[francois60]

I disagree. The default is a certainty. The tea party is that crazy and Boehner is that craven.

Replace crazy with "cagey". Boehner is going to suspend the Hastert rule and let Democrats and moderate Republicans vote to raise the debt limit. That allows Tea Partiers to oppose the debt limit increase while not actually making us default.