Why would a parent choose to have a child be transgendered? They would want their child born with the gendered body that aligns with their psychological gender identity, unless you want to see your child suffer and have to undergo years of treatment to even be halfway comfortable in their own body?
No, as usual, you are not correct.So you're saying...
What *rational* parent would want a deaf child - the suffering.
What *rational* parent would want a gay child - the suffering.
What *rational* parent would want a child who is in any way part of a minority - the suffering.
Correct?
No, as usual, you are not correct.
It's not about being part of a minority because we are all part of a minority group in some way. . It is the long term medical care that still doesn't give them the ability to be complete. I am 100% supportive of transgendered people but they would have rather been born in the right body then have to undergo treatment and take hormones for the rest of their life.
If you asked transgendered people they don't want to be trans They would much prefer to have the full, functional and complete body that aligns with the psychological gender identity.
But you were associating them strongly with...or questioning the relationship with...outward presentation of a gender.
Those are your words and ideas because I don't support those ideas and I would never even consider it.Honestly, I think you mean well.
But you're saying that trans folk are less than, and not wanted by rational parents.
As I said before, if gender is but an internal emotional state, then we may as well concede there are over 7 billion genders.
Um nope. We were specifically discussing gender-based presentations like dress, makeup (on none), how one presents themself...based on the gender they feel. Not for other reasons.
If one is a 'social creature,' wouldnt one want to make more of the effort to fit in rather than present as one identifies?
(Yes, I agree that humans are social creatures...and this is what makes this so sad and so difficult for many LBGT...the conflict between trying to fit in and trying to be who they are.)
Gender is a both a physical and psychological, but gender expression is unique to each of us.
So in essence you see the whole trans thing as a social construct in response to the social construct of gender normative stereotypes.
How they express their gender is a social construct but how they see themselves is both physical and psychological gender. They are disgusted by their own bodies because they do not align with who they are and will not fully allow them to express who they are to both themselves and others.
As I said before, if gender is but an internal emotional state, then we may as well concede there are over 7 billion genders.
I think the problem here is you cannot define the question in a meaningful way. What does it mean to feel like a man? What does it mean to feel like a woman? What defines what is masculine and what is feminine so I can ascribe a label to what I am feeling?
Not really. How many people question their sexual orientation? Isnt that more than 'just a feeling?' It is for me.
And while some people may fill in a range with respect to orientation (it may not be black & white), it's still clearly an instinctive singular drive for most.
I think sexual orientation is a lot easier. There was a very distinct physiological reaction I have had with men that I don't have with women. It isn't just a feeling.
I don't doubt that trans people genuinely feel like a particular gender, but what is not clear is if that feeling in itself constitutes gender. At this point liberals now have to invent new gender names that have no basis in the physical world because people feel that way in their own minds.
And you are assuming that the gender identity conflict is "less distinct" than your feelings? After reading and hearing about the lengths they go thru to try and be who they are? Sorry, to me that is no argument at all.
It's no different than many homophobes make about gays.
Those are your words and ideas because I don't support those ideas and I would never even consider it.
No parents wants their child to suffer, to not be happy and be bullied.
Those are your words, though I don't think you grasp what you've said.
And oops - you did it again:
You've once again said that no *rational* parent wants gay children, differently abled children, minority children.
I'm not sure if you are deliberately twisting my words to support your opinions or if you are simple unable to understand what I am saying because of an intellectual problem.
Life is hard for people when they have a disability and it is hard for the parents to see a child suffer and have to work harder than others and no child wants to see a child hurt. I am not saying that a parent doesn't want a child that is different, as you are trying to insinuate. I never one said or even hinted at what you are tying to put in my mouth. If this is what you are tying to do then dont bother replying because I'm tired of your childish game.
sick
Being transgendered is very painful and a parent doesn't want a child to have to be an outsider and be bullied and a target for bigots as most transgendered kids are. Trans kids are much different from their friends as teens and that is also difficult for the child and makes their life harder than it should be especially when being a teen is already tough. As a parent it hurts when your child is in pain and doesn't feel good or is treated as an outsider and you want to make it right but there are something that parent love or assistance cant fix and that makes it hard on you when you can't do anything to help them be happy.
I disagree. They are distinctly different.
I'll say it again: I think you mean well. :thumbs:
But your views remind me (most) of those who insist that deaf children are imperfect, and can be *improved* by the *gift* of hearing.
What *rational* parent would want an *imperfect* deaf child?
I think we're talking past each other at this point - our words falling upon deaf ears as it were - so no need to continue.
Maybe some day you'll get what I'm saying.
eace
Okay, so I have gotten a lot of flak from liberals and conservatives on my view on trans people. I have some friends on Facebook who are trans and we have had some nasty arguments before. To boil it down I think the whole trans thing is stupid but for the complete opposite reason that the traditionalists take issue with it.
Here is the deal...pretty much all gender normative stereotypes are culture specific. What does that mean? Well pretty much if you can think of a gender specific behavior that is masculine or feminine then you can find historical examples where the opposite gender has practiced it.
Men wore makeup in ancient Egypt. Men wore skirts in Scotland. Men shaved they legs in Ancient Rome. Men wore corsettes in Europe. And it goes on and on. Every example you can think of gender normative behavior is socially constructed.
So trans people who are fixated on "being" the opposite gender tend to be people who are fixated stereotypes of gender, not real differences in gender. Wearing a dress or using lipstick are cultural specific signifiers of gender, not anything that is innate or historically universal.
That isn't to say there are not significant neurological differences between men and women. There are, but there are probably more significant differences between how liberals and conservatives think than there are between how men and women think. Because of how we stereotype gender we tend to over accentuate the differences, but if I gave someone a stack of anonymous completed surveys that measured factors of personality, intelligence, aptitude, and values, there is very little chance they would be able to sort them into a pile for men and pile for women based on the results of each survey.
So in essence I see the whole trans thing as a social construct in response to the social construct of gender normative stereotypes.
Do you think that doctors don't bother to get the informed consent of transgender patients before treating them?
Can I, a woman who so happens to be trans, live her life freely in America, land of the free, without being bothered, judged, or criticized?
I work hard, i dont ask for handouts, I help people in a hospital. What more do you want from me? Why can't I just be respected? I dont get it?
While you make some good overall points, the female brain is markedly different in many ways from the male.
So if someone identifies as a specific gender, arent they going to (want to) present that gender to the rest of the world? In dress, behavior, choices, etc?
And if that helps validate that identity, then why is it wrong to do what it takes to more fully validate that identity?
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