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Mussolini and Hitler were right wing dictators

Captain Adverse said:
Not really. It is a response based on a lifetime study of various forms of social organization.
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I doubt it.

Captain Adverse said:
Communism and Fascism are simply two sides of the same coin. They always end up with someone in charge, while the rest follow.
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No they're not, as evident by the fact that the two premier representatives of their ideologies, the USSR and Fascist Italy, did not resemble one another outside surface level similarities.
 
NatMorton said:
It's interesting that a political party that couldn't muster even a respectful minority of votes in favor of censuring Rep. Tlaib (D-Gaza) for her using a genocidal slogan aimed at Israel's Jews seems to think its further from Nazism than those in the other party who voted unanimously for the censure.
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lol

Hey, what political parties did the Nazis for a coalition after the election? Just curious.
 
NatMorton said:
It's interesting that a political party that couldn't muster even a respectful minority of votes in favor of censuring Rep. Tlaib (D-Gaza) for her using a genocidal slogan aimed at Israel's Jews seems to think its further from Nazism than those in the other party who voted unanimously for the censure.
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As far as I can tell, you're the only one who is trying make the argument here that either one of America's contemporary political parties are closer or farther away from historical Nazism. Which is just another example of how your modern political biases tarnish your interpretation of history.
 
Rogue Valley said:

Nazism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

No matter what nonsense NatMorton spews, Nazism and Fascism are far-right ideologies.
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That is simply a label. The more intelligent line of thinking is to ask whether Nazism represented an extreme of big government policies or small government policies?

I understand why you'd be uncomfortable with an honest answer to that question.
 
NatMorton said:
Every dictator is left wing.
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There is no evidence to support that conclusion, but the statement is filled with motivation for opportunism.
 
JoeyVimsanteThePoet said:
Hitler and Mussolini Were Right Wing.
Lots of right wingers try to claim Hitler and Mussolini Were left wing. When in reality they said they were right wing.
I am centre-left.
I am against the far-right.
I support democracy, peace, and the best of capitalism and socialism.

I would like to point out Hitler and Mussolini admitted themselves they were right wing.
This is a taken from a speech by Adolf Hitler, April 12, 1921
'There are only two possibilities in Germany; do not imagine that the people will forever go with the middle party, the party of compromises; one day it will turn to those who have most consistently foretold the coming ruin and have sought to dissociate themselves from it. And that party is either the Left: and then God help us! for it will lead us to complete destruction - to Bolshevism, or else it is a party of the Right which at the last, when the people is in utter despair, when it has lost all its spirit and has no longer any faith in anything, is determined for its part ruthlessly to seize the reins of power - that is the beginning of resistance of which I spoke a few minutes ago. Here, too, there can be no compromise - there are only two possibilities: either victory of the Aryan or annihilation of the Aryan and the victory of the Jew.'
So that shows that Hitler saw himself and his ideology as right wing.
Mussolini wrote in The Doctrine of Fascism, ‘doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century’..
So that shows Mussolini saw himself as right wing.
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In both of your quotes, the claim is centrist, particularly Hitler. That makes sense because Hitler needed to differentiate the fascists from the communists. The platforms were close politically/

Both fascist parties grew from socialist roots. They are trying to sell their moderation as leftists and not claiming to be on the right.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I doubt it.



No they're not, as evident by the fact that the two premier representatives of their ideologies, the USSR and Fascist Italy, did not resemble one another outside surface level similarities.
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LOL! they don't have to "resemble each other" perfectly.

It is the outcome that is always the same.
 
Literally everyone who tries to pretend that they were left wing are right wingers who would have supported them if they were in Italy or Germany at the time
 
Captain Adverse said:
LOL! they don't have to "resemble each other" perfectly.

It is the outcome that is always the same.
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Except the outcome wasn't the same. Fascist Italy and the Soviet Union could hardly have turned out more different from each other if they had tried.
 
NatMorton said:
"I'm sorry, Hier Himmler. No means no, and you're just going to have to accept that. Now I ask you to please leave my office and not return ... and take your armed escort with you."

:rolleyes:
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I do not think this scene possible
 
NatMorton said:
That is simply a label. The more intelligent line of thinking is to ask whether Nazism represented an extreme of big government policies or small government policies?

I understand why you'd be uncomfortable with an honest answer to that question.
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The issue you keep ignoring is that right wing does not, nor has it ever, only been defined by small governmental policies.
 
NatMorton said:
It's interesting that a political party that couldn't muster even a respectful minority of votes in favor of censuring Rep. Tlaib (D-Gaza) for her using a genocidal slogan aimed at Israel's Jews seems to think its further from Nazism than those in the other party who voted unanimously for the censure.
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Spain’s fascist period wasn’t terribly concerned with Jewish people. The same was true during Pinochet’s rule. Much of today’s MAGA doesn’t care if someone is Jewish either (even though they harbor neo-nazis and people like Elon Musk)

Antisemitism isn’t necessarily a feature of that ideology every time it pops up.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
?

Fascist Italy and the USSR did not end up the same.
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If you mean by "who wo a war?" then of course "they did not end up the same."

However, they both ended up being controlled by one Party organizations which tolerated no competitors. They both ended up (before Italy lost a war) with strong men in control supported by some form of Administrative State.

In every case, whether Nazi, Fascist, Communist, etc., the common citizens had little choice and no control. They were at the mercy of the State machine. In every case the government was a form of socialism.
 
There is no legitimate argument that fascism is a left wing ideology. This is because it's a right wing ideology.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If you mean by "who wo a war?" then of course "they did not end up the same."

However, they both ended up being controlled by one Party organizations which tolerated no competitors. They both ended up (before Italy lost a war) with strong men in control supported by some form of Administrative State.

In every case, whether Nazi, Fascist, Communist, etc., the common citizens had little choice and no control. They were at the mercy of the State machine. In every case the government was a form of socialism.
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Ok so in your world, any society with a strong hierarchy is somehow fascist then.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If you mean by "who wo a war?" then of course "they did not end up the same."

However, they both ended up being controlled by one Party organizations which tolerated no competitors. They both ended up (before Italy lost a war) with strong men in control supported by some form of Administrative State.

In every case, whether Nazi, Fascist, Communist, etc., the common citizens had little choice and no control. They were at the mercy of the State machine. In every case the government was a form of socialism.
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These are extremely superficial similarities. Being controlled by a strong man supported by some form of administrative state is such a broad generalization that it could apply to basically any dictatorship, left or right wing.
 
Irredentist said:
These are extremely superficial similarities. Being controlled by a strong man supported by some form of administrative state is such a broad generalization that it could apply to basically any dictatorship, left or right wing.
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By his standards, ancient Mesopotamian societies were fascist since they tended to have a centralized government.

His standards are obviously and laughably disprovable.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If you mean by "who wo a war?" then of course "they did not end up the same."
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No, I meant in terms of society and structure.
Captain Adverse said:
. In every case the government was a form of socialism.
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No, it wasn't. Fascist Italy was not a socialist state; it did not have a command economy, in fact its economy was largely unchanged from the Kingdom of Italy.

The Fascists only intervened in the economy as a response to crises (the Battle for Lira, the Battle for Grain) and the overall structure of the economy remained intact.
 
NatMorton said:
No, they were much closer to the left than the right:
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No they were not. They were social and economic illiberal ethno-nationalists. Hitler and Mussolini considered socialists and communists their enemies, and had them rounded up, jailed, and in some cases, murdered.

NatMorton said:
expansive government, centralized political authority, national industrial policy, anti-competition, anti-markets, and largely intolerant of differing political views.
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You write as though these aren't far-right traits. You fundamentally fail to understand that it's the aims of the government that determine whether or not these kinds of policies are right or left. In Hitler's case, he expanded government as a means of social control - had nothing to do with Marxist economics.

Please, pick up a history book and do some reading before you try to post so authoritatively about this stuff.
 
Sounds to me like they have a little bit of both of right and left ( as Nat brilliantly points ).

and the Jew hating that is going now is coming mostly from the left.Especially on this forum!
Hitler would have loved those folks!
 
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