• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mussolini and fascism are both left wing

Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini:

Mussolini was an Atheist:
He believed that science had proven there was no god, and that the historical Jesus was ignorant and mad. He considered religion a disease of the psyche, and accused Christianity of promoting resignation and cowardice.


Mussolini was a student of Marx:
Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his own writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works.[26] During this period Mussolini considered himself an "authoritarian communist"[27] and a Marxist and he described Karl Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."

He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper, Avanti! Mussolini was expelled from the party only because of him supporting military intervention into the war (the party wanted neutrality), not because he rejected socialism.


Let's now look at what he accomplished during his reign.

He imposed unionization:

Under this labour policy, Fascist Italy enacted laws to make union membership compulsory for all workers.


Massive amount of government spending on infrastructure, schools, etc.:

Mussolini’s spending on the public sector, schools and infrastructure was considered extravagant. Mussolini "instituted a programme of public works hitherto unrivaled in modern Europe. Bridges, canals and roads were built, hospitals and schools, railway stations and orphanages; swamps were drained and land reclaimed, forests were planted and universities were endowed". As for the scope and spending on social welfare programs, Italian fascism "compared favorably with the more advanced European nations and in some respect was more progressive".


Mussolini imposed a large and expansive welfare state:

By 1925, the Fascist government had "embarked upon an elaborate program" that included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing and old age and disability insurance.


He made a direct comparison between his government policies, and FDR's government policies:

When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian fascism in 1939, the reply was: "It is like your New Deal!".


Mussolini referred to himself as the "Lenin of Italy":

During the 1919 elections, the Fascists had attempted to court the socialist-left while publicly dubbing himself the “Lenin of Italy”,[13] attempting to “out-socialist the socialists”


He was a collectivist, and hated individualism:

Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity.


Last but not least, fascist Italy had a very high degree of public ownership of the means of production:

By 1939, Fascist Italy attained the highest rate of state ownership of any economy in the world other than the Soviet Union.

As anyone can see, Mussolini was clearly left wing. Socialism is a spectrum, with dozens of different variations. Lenin had his own version (Leninism), Stalin had his own version (Stalinism), Mao had his own version (Maoism) and Mussolini had his own version, which he named fascism.
 
False. The farther right you go in American politics the smaller the government, the greater the emphasis on liberty, capitalism and individualism. Those ideals do not exist in fascism.
The further you go into libertarianism, then yes, your assertion starts to become more valid. There are people, such as speaker Johnson, who are very right wing but don’t believe in those principles, for example.
 
No it isn't, but

A) I don't see fascism as the equivalent of conservatism

B) yes, fascism is on the right wing spectrum, just like communism is on the left wing. But that doesn't make conservatives fascist anymore than it makes every left winger a communist.
Then you simply have not been paying attention to the liberal argument for the last decade which says the opposite.
 
Then you simply have not been paying attention to the liberal argument for the last decade which says the opposite.

I don't care what stupid people on twitter say and neither should you.
 
The further you go into libertarianism, then yes, your assertion starts to become more valid. There are people, such as speaker Johnson, who are very right wing but don’t believe in those principals, for example.
If you want to argue that Johnson supports fascist ideals, lay them out there. The simple fact of the matter is--and it is another fact that has not been debunked-- that fascism cannot exist unless socialists like you first lay the groundwork for it.
 
If you want to argue that Johnson supports fascist ideals, lay them out there. The simple fact of the matter is--and it is another fact that has not been debunked-- that fascism cannot exist unless socialists like you first lay the groundwork for it.
I am making the statement that a guy who wishes to push his Christian denomination on other Christians and nonchristians cannot believe in those principles, yet he is very right wing.

Alternatively, the King of Saudi Arabia is extremely right wing but doesn’t believe in libertarian ideals. Of course, he is a monarchist and not a fascist.
 
The simple fact of the matter is--and it is another fact that has not been debunked-- that fascism cannot exist unless socialists like you first lay the groundwork for it.

This is just, fundamentally, a bad argument because by that logic if you go back far enough you can blame Gutenberg for fascism.
 
I don't care what stupid people on twitter say and neither should you.
I wasnt talking about twitter. I was talking about what stupid people here at DP say. Dont believe me? Do a word search for the fascist here and you will see that it has polluted every thread for the past 7 years. Why? Because 'stupid people' here at DP have been working overtime to show that Americans on the right are fascists. Since it is impossible for you not to have noticed this, I can only wonder why you would lie about it.
 
I wasnt talking about twitter. I was talking about what stupid people here at DP say. Dont believe me?

It's not that I don't believe you.

Do a word search for the fascist here and you will see that it has polluted every thread for the past 7 years. Why? Because 'stupid people' here at DP have been working overtime to show that Americans on the right are fascists.

Okay. Am I supposed to feel sympathy for the right wing after the 2000s, where the right wing passed the Patriot Act, boosted military spending among a major interventionist foreign policy, drafted laws intended to inhibit access to abortion, prohibit same-sex marriage, all the while insisting that America needed to return to traditionalist values, and you're upset that the "fascist" label was thrown around?

Since it is impossible for you not to have noticed this, I can only wonder why you would lie about it.

What did I lie about?
 
I am making the statement that a guy who wishes to push his Christian denomination on other Christians and nonchristians cannot believe in those principles, yet he is very right wing.
I dont know what you are talking about. And neither do you.
Alternatively, the King of Saudi Arabia is extremely right wing but doesn’t believe in libertarian ideals. Of course, he is a monarchist and not a fascist.
And Pelosi and Schumer are left wing, just as Mao, and Xi, and Un, and Castro and Pol Pot and Stalin were/are left wing.
 
It's not that I don't believe you.



Okay. Am I supposed to feel sympathy for the right wing after the 2000s, where the right wing passed the Patriot Act, boosted military spending among a major interventionist foreign policy, drafted laws intended to inhibit access to abortion, prohibit same-sex marriage, all the while insisting that America needed to return to traditionalist values, and you're upset that the "fascist" label was thrown around?



What did I lie about?
None of that is fascist. But thank you for demonstrating that just like any other lib here, you simply smear anyone and anything you disagree with as fascist. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
None of that is fascist.

[Citation needed]

But thank you for demonstrating that just like any other lib here, you simply smear anyone and anything you disagree with as fascist. Thanks for clearing that up.

It's telling that even though I didn't imply that label was accurate (and actually argued against it), you are so fundamentally dependent on playing the victim you have to make it so.
 
I dont know what you are talking about. And neither do you.
You don’t know what I am talking about because your point of view is too limited to account for actual real world occurrences of right wing ideology that don’t fit in your little conceptual box.
And Pelosi and Schumer are left wing, just as Mao, and Xi, and Un, and Castro and Pol Pot and Stalin were/are left wing.
Yes, the left wing has a spectrum from moderate to communist. Just like the right wing has a spectrum from moderate to fascist.

Also both sides have their libertarian wings as well.

… this is extremely commonly known stuff…
 
Last edited:
Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini:

Mussolini was an Atheist:



Mussolini was a student of Marx:


He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper, Avanti! Mussolini was expelled from the party only because of him supporting military intervention into the war (the party wanted neutrality), not because he rejected socialism.


Let's now look at what he accomplished during his reign.

He imposed unionization:




Massive amount of government spending on infrastructure, schools, etc.:




Mussolini imposed a large and expansive welfare state:




He made a direct comparison between his government policies, and FDR's government policies:




Mussolini referred to himself as the "Lenin of Italy":




He was a collectivist, and hated individualism:




Last but not least, fascist Italy had a very high degree of public ownership of the means of production:



As anyone can see, Mussolini was clearly left wing. Socialism is a spectrum, with dozens of different variations. Lenin had his own version (Leninism), Stalin had his own version (Stalinism), Mao had his own version (Maoism) and Mussolini had his own version, which he named fascism.

No, neither are left wing. Fascism has always been right-wing. Stop spewing bullshit.
 
[Citation needed]



It's telling that even though I didn't imply that label was accurate (and actually argued against it), you are so fundamentally dependent on playing the victim you have to make it so.
Well thats just stupid. Im am not victimized by leftist idiocy. I am simply pointing it out. In fact, you yourself called those that link the modern day American right to fascism, idiots. You then went on a couple posts later to link the policies of the modern day American right with fascism. So get your argument straight.
 
Well thats just stupid. Im am not victimized by leftist idiocy. I am simply pointing it out. In fact, you yourself called those that link the modern day American right to fascism, idiots. You then went on a couple posts later to link the policies of the modern day American right with fascism. So get your argument straight.

What I actually did was point out why the comparisons were made, even if the lack of a real philosophical kinship leads me to believe they are the same.
 
The evidence is what he believed and what he did after he was in power.

If any of the claims in the op are wrong, feel free to quote them and correct me. If you are right, I will concede you are right.

Mussolini was a FASCIST dictator who was allied with Adolf Hitler. He WAS NOT a leftist in any way, shape, or form.

 
Well thats just stupid. Im am not victimized by leftist idiocy. I am simply pointing it out. In fact, you yourself called those that link the modern day American right to fascism, idiots. You then went on a couple posts later to link the policies of the modern day American right with fascism. So get your argument straight.

The modern American right is fascism. There is no denying this.
 
I already posted a link from the History Channel that disproves the OP.

Just stop.
That link did not dispel any point that the OP made. It was a generic post on Fascism. It does not account for all of the examples the OP gave. The cold hard truth is contained in the OP!!! Do better!
 
Do you deny that the things Mussolini pushed for and accomplished are in the Democratic Party Platform?
Fascism is a right wing ideology. No amount of typing will change that.
 
You don’t know what I am talking about because your point of view is too limited to account for actual real world occurrences of right wing ideology that don’t fit in your little conceptual box.
No, your post made no sense.
Yes, the left wing has a spectrum from moderate to communist. Just like the right wing has a spectrum from moderate to fascist.

Also both sides have their libertarian wings as well.

… this is extremely commonly known stuff…
So left wing = communist so American left wingers are communists. Okay, have it your way.
 
Well, they gotta whine about SOMETHING.
What I love is when they throw out words like Marxist and communist, socialist etc. and they don’t even know what the words actually mean, but the words are “scary”
 
Back
Top Bottom