Muslims shield Christians when Al-Shabaab attacks bus in Kenya[W:91, W:131]

[mbig]

Actually, Neither of you knows Much about the Koran or Islam, though chagos has some basic PC concepts.

In the case of Dianna, in my 6 years here, never seen her in any of the Islam discussions.. while I've been in scores with many citations of the Koran, Hadiths, and other Commentary; Both early (ie Tafsirs), and contemporary (too numerous to name).
I have also debated Muslim on Islamic message boards, as well as here, ie:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...am-q-and-and-discussion-8.html#post1059137727
Lemme know when anyone else can do that.

The Koran contains both peaceful and violent verses.
Muslims can indeed choose a non-violent life but....
Of course, the Koran tells us, the later verses aka "sword verses" (after Big Mo won) "Abrogate" the earlier peaceful ones.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=abrogation koran&es_th=1
FYI, the Koran is Not in chronological or coherent order, but arrangd by large-to-small chapter size, perhaps by someone who could not even read.

And Islam is not just based on the Koran, but the Hadiths and [emulating] the Life of Mohammed.
Mohammed was a conqueror, as were his immediate succesors, "the Four Caliphs", and many after them.
They spread Islam BY the sword for Hundreds of years.
I think They understood Islam quite well!
The above is the very short version of course. Hope it helped you both get over your Ignorance and PC Apologism.

"What has ISIS done that Mohammed did not do?"
- Ahmed Harqan​

Well, the effort is certainly appreciated but wasted in as much that when I feel the need for further education on the subject, I'll go see somebody who is really well versed on matters.
As to apologism of PC, I don't know what you mean. If you mean politically correct apologism of Islam, I see no reason to go apologizing for any religion. A stance heavily re-inforced by myself being devoid of any whatsoever. That would include the PC adjective, seeing how that whole concept bores me to kingdom come.
As to your having debated Muslims on message boards, good for you. But it also indicates that you didn't get much help there. By all means let us know when you've debated with Muslim theologians in person. Lastly it might benefit your debating skills heavily if you were to realize that throwing around the PC accusation like some club designed to smother anything that appears to imperil your world view, is a truly weak move.

There are credibly more effective ways of disqualifying one's own stance right from the outset, yet this tiring cop-out is not among the least of those...

1. ALL your ideas on Islam are laughable PC. Absolute 'Dawa' pablum in Muslim terms.

2. Despite your verbose attempt at condescension, :^) you were UNABLE too contradict a single thing I said.
THUS, your cop-out claim you'd seek higher authority if you needed to discuss it.

Throughout the string, YOU emptily tried to pull rank on others with your claim of having lived in a Muslim country and Goofy PC apologism like 'People of the book'.

3. In fact and again, you have the equivalent knowledge of Islam of what they'd BS to American Junior HS students; IF that.

4. You seemed quite willing, even pompous, Trying to pull rank on others/countryboy-etc, but now have Nothing to say of course.
You Did want to discuss it until you got humbled by my basic explanations that contradict your 'stuff.'

5. Condesencion only works down hill. You were trying to go up at a 90° angle.

 

[Erod]

In regards to all of the people saying "OHH THIS ISN'T ENOUGH, MUSLIMS ARE EVULLL." You honestly believe christians all at once stopped doing all of the awful **** of the past? Hell, they still do in places not effectively neutered by secular values.

Playing along, just how many millennia must we wait?

 

[Chagos]

1. ALL your ideas on Islam are laughable PC. Absolute 'Dawa' pablum in Muslim terms.

2. Despite your verbose attempt at condescension, :^) you were UNABLE too contradict a single thing I said.
THUS, your cop-out claim you'd seek higher authority if you needed to discuss it.

Throughout the string, YOU emptily tried to pull rank on others with your claim of having lived in a Muslim country and Goofy PC apologism like 'People of the book'.

3. In fact and again, you have the equivalent knowledge of Islam of what they'd BS to American Junior HS students; IF that.

4. You seemed quite willing, even pompous, Trying to pull rank on others/countryboy-etc, but now have Nothing to say of course.
Of course, you Did want to discuss it until you got humbled by my basic explanations that contradict your 'stuff.'

5. Condesencion only works down hill. You were trying to go up at a 90° angle.

Apart from your silly PC cop-out (getting more and more habitual with your ilk as a detraction from having not much to say), you might wanna do something about your awful post formatting. It's annoying at least.

Yeah, yeah, I know that's OT. But it finally gets people to not read anymore, irrespective of content. Lousy spelling doesn't help either.

Leaving finally two things. One being the question of how one pulls rank on anybody holding none and the other being whether the cognitive dissonance required to hold oneself as humbling any one at all, also reflects upon other powers of cognition (let alone knowledge) one holds oneself to possess.

I fear the answer to the latter won't be to your liking but then I don't really care what you like anyway.

Lastly, before I forget, my suggestion at educating oneself on the "people of the book" concept wasn't directed at you. Seeing how you delude yourself into believing to be the one all to end all authority on Islam, I'd never summon up the audacity to even suggest further education to you.

 

[Gardener]

Apart from your silly PC cop-out (getting more and more habitual with your ilk as a detraction from having not much to say), you might wanna do something about your awful post formatting. It's annoying at least.

Yeah, yeah, I know that's OT. But it finally gets people to not read anymore, irrespective of content. Lousy spelling doesn't help either.

Leaving finally two things. One being the question of how one pulls rank on anybody holding none and the other being whether the cognitive dissonance required to hold oneself as humbling any one at all, also reflects upon other powers of cognition (let alone knowledge) one holds oneself to possess.

I fear the answer to the latter won't be to your liking but then I don't really care what you like anyway.

Lastly, before I forget, my suggestion at educating oneself on the "people of the book" concept wasn't directed at you. Seeing how you delude yourself into believing to be the one all to end all authority on Islam, I'd never summon up the audacity to even suggest further education to you.

Rather than attacking him as having "ilk" and criticizing his posting style, you might consider offering knowledge and logic, instead, not to mention a writing style more fluid and less cryptic. Your lecturing him on the Queen's English seems especially ironic.

 

[Chagos]

Before this goes any further down the road of showing mutual contempt (and before I have to offer a round of cheese again to go with the expected whines), I'll now see whether the local TV has anything interesting to offer.

I recall that there might be a re-run of the (oldish) The Kingdom. I also recall that its portrayal of Saudi is about as comical as Homeland portrayed the M.E., but WTH. At least it doesn't claim to be anything other than fiction.

 

[Serenity]

Moderator's Warning:

The topic isn't each other or any other random things you feel like chatting about. The topic here is "Muslims shield Christians when Al-Shabaab attacks bus in Kenya" If you wish to stay active in the thread may I suggest you discuss the topic only. Thanks.

 

[Iamjesus]

So I visit another country. One group of Muslims want to kill me. Another group wants to protect me. Therefore....what? Only 50% of Muslims want to kill me?

This is a positive? The 'good news' about Muslims? This is the best 'feel good' propaganda the media can come up with?

 

[Unitedwestand13]

P

Agreed. Many Muslims hate the United States. Downplaying the numbers is like downplaying Nazi support in Germany under Hitler.

Do one in two want to kill us? One in ten? Sorry, if I thought one in a hundred Strangers wanted to kill my family, I would not let a stranger in my house. I would think a president should be equally vigilant as to who is allowed into our country.

There are 1.6 billion Believers of the Islamic faith.

How many do you think are out to get us?

 

[Excon]

Muslims shield Christians when Al-Shabaab attacks bus - CNN.com



Now that is courage. :shock:

Courageous? Yes!
Still just anomalies though.

---

There are 1.6 billion Believers of the Islamic faith.

How many do you think are out to get us?

I would suggest you consult their holy book as to what their required beliefs are in regards to those you ask about.

 

[countryboy]

I'm looking forward to it.

I still don't have time to delve deeply into this today. Over the long weekend I will go into more depth. But, for starters, here are a couple of Koran passages that call for violence against the unbeliever. There are literally over a hundred similar passages. To say nothing of the extra-Koranic writings of the prophet.

“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement” (Qur’an 5:33, Shakir)

“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness” (Qur’an 9:123, Shakir).

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29, Ali).

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah"

 

[countryboy]

P

There are 1.6 billion Believers of the Islamic faith.

How many do you think are out to get us?

What if it's only 1%? Is that insignificant? Polls show it's much more than that.

 

[rhinefire]

Oh, those wonderful muslims, no wonder so many are being recruited to join them.

 

[starcitizen]

The majority of victims of radical Muslims is other Muslims. You do know that there were Muslims in the Twin Towers and in San Bernardino that lost their lives also. When one grasps the fact that the war is with a very small segment of a huge number of Muslims one can actually see reality.

They don't consider Shia, Bahai, or Sufi to be Muslims, they do not target Sunni Muslims.

 

[Chagos]

............................... they do not target Sunni Muslims.

what blatant bullcrap. It's their biggest target group of all.

 

[starcitizen]

what blatant bullcrap. It's their biggest target group of all.

You're simply lying the only people they don't target are Sunni Muslims.

 

[countryboy]

Are you, in that process, going to try developing some original thought of your own?

Or will you be regurgitating what you can conveniently find on bigoted websites, the cause of which you champion by mindless mantra-ing their content without even the remotest sign of critical distance ?

Neatly absolving yourself from the effort of doing some actual research and from overcoming possible laziness at the same time.

I posted some quotes directly from the Koran. Got no response before this. Figured it was enough. Why don't you refute what I already posted? Let's see what you've got.

Edit: Honestly, if you want to have a civil debate on this topic, I'm game. But I will not suffer your personal attacks or waste my time with idiocy. FYI.

 

[Chagos]

You're simply lying the only people they don't target are Sunni Muslims.

The liar, sir, is YOU. Or perhaps the embodiment of ignorance.

You think when they kill the opposition in Libya, Absurdistan, Pakistan, Syria, Kurdistan, Yemen (to name those coming immediately to mind) they're not targeting Sunni?

Back up your utterly baseless claim (which, seeing how it IS baseless, you of course canNOT). And be careful about calling those not as ignorant as you liars just on that pretext.

 

[countryboy]

really, your confusion is worrisome.

You make a statement that is simply a lie, call me a liar when I point out the falsehood and now you advocate a civil debate?

I know Xmas can lead to all sorts of intellectual impairment with some, but really?

I mean get a grip before you caramelize completely during New Year's night.

P.S. and we both know you posted nothing from the Koran directly, seeing how you probably wouldn't recognize one if it fell on your head.

I see, so basically, you've got nothing. No surprise there.

If the quotes I posted aren't directly from the Koran, you shouldn't have any trouble demonstrating that.

 

[Chagos]

I see, so basically, you've got nothing. No surprise there.

If the quotes I posted aren't directly from the Koran, you shouldn't have any trouble demonstrating that.

Just to address a more significant issue:

On the liar thing I beg pardon. I confused you with starcitizen and the fact that you sound virtually alike is no excuse.

My bad.

As to your quotations, I'm not going to go into your silly game of pulverizing any context (of course there are such passages in the Koran), since, by the same disingenuous methods, I could construe something out of (for instance) the official regulation manual of the London Board of Transport to justify running you or anyone else over with a bus.

I intentionally don't even bring up the bible since I tire of the comparison.

 

[countryboy]

Just to address a more significant issue:

On the liar thing I beg pardon. I confused you with starcitizen and the fact that you sound virtually alike is no excuse.

My bad.

As to your quotations, I'm not going to go into your silly game of pulverizing any context (of course there are such passages in the Koran), since, by the same disingenuous methods, I could construe something out of (for instance) the official regulation manual of the London Board of Transport to justify running you or anyone else over with a bus.

I intentionally don't even bring up the bible since I tire of the comparison.

How is pointing out passages in the Koran calling for violence against non-Muslims, "pulverizing context"? If you can show there is somehow a peaceful context to these violent passages, please do so. I am not above admitting when I'm wrong. I suspect you cannot.

 

[starcitizen]

The liar, sir, is YOU. Or perhaps the embodiment of ignorance.

You think when they kill the opposition in Libya, Absurdistan, Pakistan, Syria, Kurdistan, Yemen (to name those coming immediately to mind) they're not targeting Sunni?

Which opposition?

Back up your utterly baseless claim (which, seeing how it IS baseless, you of course canNOT). And be careful about calling those not as ignorant as you liars just on that pretext.

Show me the fatwas issued against Sunni's, in Pakistan they cross the boarder and target Hindus and non-Muslims in India, in Iraq and Syria they target Shiite and Christians yes they sometimes target government forces but they specifically target Shiite, Sufi, Bahai, Hindus, Jews, and Christians so you're lying because their biggest victims are non-Muslims and those they view as non-Muslims.

 

[Chagos]

How is pointing out passages in the Koran calling for violence against non-Muslims, "pulverizing context"? If you can show there is somehow a peaceful context to these violent passages, please do so. I am not above admitting when I'm wrong. I suspect you cannot.

Even you should be able to see in the very first verse you quote that the direction to fight is given against those that attack.

If you understood context properly (which you won't from citing some convenient blog that's into bashing as much as you are), you'd see that any form of jihad (and we have to cite "small" jihad here) is in defense.

Don't come up with how the last of your quotations is actually contradicted by the call to take Mecca (I've seen that non-contextual "explanation" for years), it's as as much a distortion of history as anything else in this issue.

Mecca (the Quraysh actually) was the one waging war.

 

[SheWolf]

Muslims shield Christians when Al-Shabaab attacks bus - CNN.com



Now that is courage. :shock:

My sister was telling me about this. It's really surprising that Al Shabaab decided to just give up on trying to separate them and left. Maybe it means they know their terror tactics aren't working, and they don't know how to handle religions not hating each other.

 

[Chagos]

Which opposition?



Show me the fatwas issued against Sunni's, in Pakistan they cross the boarder and target Hindus and non-Muslims in India, in Iraq and Syria they target Shiite and Christians yes they sometimes target government forces but they specifically target Shiite, Sufi, Bahai, Hindus, Jews, and Christians so you're lying because their biggest victims are non-Muslims and those they view as non-Muslims.

Oh go away with you, your distortions are annoying.

Check out the Sunni clerics alone that IS slaughtered for refusing to swear allegiance to them. You made the dishonest claim that Sunni are not targeted at all and called me a liar when I pointed out that its' crap. Well watch yourself mate, you'd better be able to prove the liar accusation of you could wind up in deep doo-doo.

the investigators found that the militants also kill and persecute other believers of their Sunni faith.

The witnesses told the UN investigators of the atrocious ways in which the terrorists were killing, kidnapping and persecuting citizens of all religious beliefs, including those holding ISIS' own faith of Sunni Islam.

You can go into detail here http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/IQ/UNAMI_OHCHR_POC_Report_FINAL_6July_10September2014.pdf

 

[Chagos]

My sister was telling me about this. It's really surprising that Al Shabaab decided to just give up on trying to separate them and left. Maybe it means they know their terror tactics aren't working, and they don't know how to handle religions not hating each other.

and maybe, just maybe, they weren't prepared for the shock of possibly (and totally unexpectedly) having to execute their own kind.