Muslim Communities in Germany protesting against violence in the name of Islam

[German guy]

Last week, all major Muslim communities started an "action day" against violence in the name of Islam (with special reference to ISIS in Iraq and Syria), against anti-Jewish violence (such as attacks on synagogues or individual Jews) and against attacks on mosques and Muslims by islam-haters.

Here a few English language articles I found on Google on the subject:

Opinion: A Strong Signal From German Muslims

Opinion: A strong signal from German Muslims | MSN Arabia

Germany: Muslims announce Day of Action against Hatred and Terrorism - Romea.cz

From the last link:

Spiegel Online reports that the Muslims want to clearly distance themselves from the Islamist organization Islamic State (IS), which now rules parts of northern Iraq and northern Syria, by holding the event in more than 2 000 mosques throughout Germany. "We want to make it clear that criminals and terrorists do not speak in the name of Islam, that they trample on the commandments of Islam, and that our religion has no place for the criminals and murderers in our ranks," Aiman Mazyek, chair of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, has declared.


The slogan of Friday's Day of Action is "Muslims rise up against hatred and lawlessness". More than 2 000 mosques in Germany want to join the day by holding prayers for peace and preaching about it, said Ali Kizilkaya, spokesperson for the Muslim Cooperation Council, who called on all citizens to raise their voices against racism and stand up for the liberal democratic social order.


According to German Muslims, the Day of Action targets all extremists. "When a synagogue is targeted for attack, then I am a Jew, when Christians are persecuted, as they are for example in Iraq, then I am a Christian. When explosives are set off near mosques, I am Muslim," Mazyek said.

Just thought it would be worth posting here, to get all the attacks on Islam in perspective. It's simply not true that mainstream Muslims do not distanciate themselves from the violent kinds, or that they do not protest when Jews or other non-Muslims are attacked. At least not in Germany.

 

[Thom Paine]

Last week, all major Muslim communities started an "action day" against violence in the name of Islam (with special reference to ISIS in Iraq and Syria), against anti-Jewish violence (such as attacks on synagogues or individual Jews) and against attacks on mosques and Muslims by islam-haters.

Here a few English language articles I found on Google on the subject:

Opinion: A Strong Signal From German Muslims

Opinion: A strong signal from German Muslims | MSN Arabia

Germany: Muslims announce Day of Action against Hatred and Terrorism - Romea.cz

From the last link:




Just thought it would be worth posting here, to get all the attacks on Islam in perspective. It's simply not true that mainstream Muslims do not distanciate themselves from the violent kinds, or that they do not protest when Jews or other non-Muslims are attacked. At least not in Germany.

I am unaware of any such actions in the U.S.A. Maybe it that type of movement will spread world wide. It has promise.

Thanks for the post

Enjoy life

Thom Paine

 

[Wiggen]

Last week, all major Muslim communities started an "action day" against violence in the name of Islam (with special reference to ISIS in Iraq and Syria), against anti-Jewish violence (such as attacks on synagogues or individual Jews) and against attacks on mosques and Muslims by islam-haters.

Here a few English language articles I found on Google on the subject:

Opinion: A Strong Signal From German Muslims

Opinion: A strong signal from German Muslims | MSN Arabia

Germany: Muslims announce Day of Action against Hatred and Terrorism - Romea.cz

From the last link:




Just thought it would be worth posting here, to get all the attacks on Islam in perspective. It's simply not true that mainstream Muslims do not distanciate themselves from the violent kinds, or that they do not protest when Jews or other non-Muslims are attacked. At least not in Germany.

It would be nice if this sort of sentiment expressed by German Muslims was to spread to other countries. France, in particular, is having all kinds of difficulties with anti-Semitism expressed by French Muslims on a fairly regular basis.

 

[X Factor]

Awesome, no need to worry or even talk about terrorism, anymore. Who cares anyway? Might be offensive to some and that's much worse than a few dead terror victims.

 

[German guy]

Awesome, no need to worry or even talk about terrorism, anymore. Who cares anyway? Might be offensive to some and that's much worse than a few dead terror victims.

Who said anything like that? That's a strawman.

Of course there are problems with islamist terrorism, serious problems, and also with many opinions and attitudes of too many Muslims in the West, also in Germany.

This action day by German Muslims is indeed a strong sign, that Muslims here finally raise their voice to contribute to our public discourse rather than either staying out or just playing the victim game. They've obviously understood some of the main criticism they've been facing for a while and found a constructive response to that, even if that's just a first step. Ideally, this will increase awareness among Muslims in Germany what the majority here is expecting from them, and where their responsibilities lie when it comes to their misguided radical fellows.

If anything, this shows that it's perhaps more appropriate to be a little more differentiated when attacking "the Muslims" for terrorism and all kinds of other problems, that some people should perhaps be a little more precise when searching targets for their outrage.

 

[German guy]

It would be nice if this sort of sentiment expressed by German Muslims was to spread to other countries. France, in particular, is having all kinds of difficulties with anti-Semitism expressed by French Muslims on a fairly regular basis.

Germany has some of these problems too, though on a lower level than France, as far as I can tell.

But this action day is encouraging, IMO, because it shows that it's no longer just non-Muslims pointing at these problems talking *about* Muslims, but now it's Muslims talking about Muslims too, and *with* the non-Muslims. It may well have strong influence on the opinions of common Muslims here.

 

[ecofarm]

I am unaware of any such actions in the U.S.A. Maybe it that type of movement will spread world wide. It has promise.

Thanks for the post

Enjoy life

Thom Paine

Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS | KFOR.com

WDTV.COM 5 News: Muslim Student Association Speaks Out Against ISIS

 

[Thom Paine]

Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS | KFOR.com

WDTV.COM 5 News: Muslim Student Association Speaks Out Against ISIS

Thanks... good to see. Maybe I've missed it on the news or it's not getting major nat'l exposure. It would help in many ways, if this had wide exposure, by calming some folks and encouraging more Muslim to do similar.

Good eve to ya' Eco

Thom Paine

 

[mbig]

As someone who is a Harsh critic of Islamism, yes, even plain Islam, I give the effort Approval.
It's easy to Bash ISIS however, even for Non-secular Muslims.
And of Course, 70% of Germany's Muslims are Turkish, and another 10% Bosnian.

And last I saw, 2007, there were 1200 Mosques
Islamic Group Plans to Double Number of Mosques in Germany | Germany | DW.DE | 13.10.2007
And now 2000 out of 2500?, 3000? are participating. How many aren't?
Meaning the number of Mosques has Doubled in 7 years.

The Islamization of Germany in 2013
by Soeren Kern
January 15, 2014
The Islamization of Germany in 2013

In December, Two new studies, one funded by the German Government, found that the Majority of Muslims believe that Islamic Sharia law should take Precedence over the Secular Constitutions and laws of their European host countries.

"Critics of Islamic ideology and its organizations are constantly confronted with lawsuits and have to legally defend themselves against the accusations of blasphemy or incitement-to-hatred. Even if it does not come to a conviction, such processes cost a lot of time and money…Thus... we are experiencing a de facto application of Islamic law." — Felix Strüning, Gustav Stresemann Foundation Report.
"[It] must be recognized: democracies must beware of those who believe a free society is something that needs to be vanquished." — Die Welt.

What follows is a chronological review of some of the most important stories about the rise of Islam in Germany during 2013:

In January, the Turkish-run Kuba Camii Mosque in Eschweiler, a city situated along the German-Belgian-Dutch border and about 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Cologne, for the first time began publicly calling Muslims to prayer.
The call to prayer was described as an "historical event" and was attended by numerous dignitaries, including the Turkish consul and the Turkish attaché.
The Turkish imam of the Kuba Camii Mosque, Bahri Ciftci, declared his hopes that "the public prayer call will be a symbol of a tolerant, intercultural and interreligious common coexistence."

The mayor of Eschweiler, Rudi Bertram, said, "Tolerance must be practiced on a daily basis. We are all responsible for ensuring that there is a co-existence."
The mosque is one of a growing number of Islamic institutions in Germany publicly calling the Muslim faithful to prayer—five times a day, seven days a week—with cries of Allahu Akbar! ("Allah is Greater!").
The sonorous prayer calls (known in Arabic as adhan) can be heard from great distances when amplified through electric loudspeakers. Critics say some German towns and cities are beginning to evoke the sounds and images of the Islamic Middle East.

On January 14, the City-State of Bremen signed a so-called state treaty with city's 40,000-strong Muslim community. The agreement guarantees the protection of Muslim community properties, the approval of the construction of mosques with minarets and domes, the allotment of land for Muslim cemeteries, the supplying of halal food at prisons and hospitals, the recognition of three Muslim holidays, Muslim representation in state institutions and several other rights and privileges. According to Erol Pürlü, the spokesman of the Koordinationsrat der Muslime [Muslim Coordination Council], a Turkish-Muslim umbrella group, the treaty with Bremen "sends a clear signal that Islam belongs to Germany."

Bremen is the second German state to sign a treaty with local Muslim communities. Hamburg, the second-largest city in Germany, concluded a "historic treaty" with the city's 200,000-strong Muslim community in November 2012.

Critics say the agreements do little to encourage Muslim integration into German society and instead will boost the growing influence of Islam in the country by encouraging the perpetuation of a Muslim Parallel society.
[..........]
From Berlin to Dortmund to Mönchengladbach, the proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Germany. Major German newspapers greeted the news with apparent resignation, and published editorials with titles such as "When Mosques Replace Churches," "Tenant Allah," "Christian on the Outside, Muslim on the Inside," and "The New Normal."
......

And there are estimated to be 400 German Muslims fighting for ISIS despite the fact it has a more 'secular' Turkish base, Unlike those of other EU countries.

And ecofarm's condemnation list by American Muslim groups above, is Stunningly SHORT. Oklahoma?
I guarantee there are many more, as again, this is an easy/'Apple Pie' cause to support.
Even al Qaeda hates ISIS! Doesn't mean they're 'moderate.'

 

[TeleKat]

But I thought all muslims were evil and they never spoke out against radical islam? :2razz:

 

[German guy]

As someone who is a Harsh critic of Islamism, yes, even plain Islam, I give the effort Approval.
It's easy to Bash ISIS however, even for Non-secular Muslims.
And of Course, 70% of Germany's Muslims are Turkish, and another 10% Bosnian.

And last I saw, 2007, there were 1200 Mosques
Islamic Group Plans to Double Number of Mosques in Germany | Germany | DW.DE | 13.10.2007
And now 2000 out of 2500?, 3000? are participating. How many aren't?
Meaning the number of Mosques has Doubled in 7 years.

The Islamization of Germany in 2013
by Soeren Kern
January 15, 2014
The Islamization of Germany in 2013
And there are estimated to be 400 German Muslims fighting for ISIS despite the fact it has a more 'secular' Turkish base, Unlike those of other EU countries.

And ecofarm's condemnation list by American Muslim groups above, is Stunningly SHORT. Oklahoma?
I guarantee there are many more, as again, this is an easy/'Apple Pie' cause to support.
Even al Qaeda hates ISIS.

I'm glad you approve of the effort.

Frankly, I have no idea how many mosques there are in Germany, but I assume the number is fluctuating strongly, as by far most of these mosques are just "backyard mosques", meaning communities are just renting some apartment somewhere in the city (rather than erecting a building, which is way beyond the means of most Muslim communities in Germany, as far as I can tell). At least that's what it looks like in Berlin, although this is a city with a relatively large Muslim population. I can't even say I've ever conciously seen a mosque building here, just the according signs at such "backyard mosques".

So perhaps the numbers of Muslims in Germany, as well as a chart about their degree of religiosity, is more relevant than the number of registered mosques.

If the statement in your quote is true, that indeed a majority of Muslims in Germany support Sharia law, that is worrying. But the article is a bit unclear about the origin of that claim; it says this was found in a study, and two have been recently conducted, "one by the German government". And the other, where this statement might be from? From the Evangelical Association of Fighters Against Muslim Satanism?

But all other headlines, IMO, are more appeals to ugly xenophobia than anything else. You know, these old Nazis who feel disturbed when they see a building that doesn't look "German" enough for their taste, or people who feel nobody has a right to pray as long as he isn't Christian.

As far as I am concerned, all I demand from Muslims here is to respect the Constitution and to clearly denounce violence. As long as they do that, they may have the most outlandish ideas, I'm fine with that, since that's what most other Germans have too. In that case, they're ready for debate and the argument with them is on a level where it belongs, which means civil public discourse. They can pray as much as they want, call for Allah as often as they like, eat halal food as they please and build mosques as they please -- as long as they meet these two requirements.

As for these 400 (which on a population of 4 million Muslims aren't *that* many -- 0.01%, to be exact ) who joined ISIS -- kick'em out. I'm fine with that. Or if they have German citizenship, throw them right into jail when they come out. Likewise, I don't see why people who financially support IS or spread their propaganda shouldn't be thrown out of the country, or face severe punishment along our hate crime laws, if they're citizens. Not sure, but I imagine that already happens to some extent since IS was recently legally classified as a terrorist organization.


Mbig, I assume you have good reasons for taking the problems with Muslims so seriously, and focusing so much on it. As I don't know you, I have no idea what these reasons could be. But although we might sometimes disagree, or at least be at cross purposes, I appreciate your passion.

 

[Rainman05]

This article was from last week and I did see it and I think I posted it on some thread but I'm not sure. But what i am sure is what I thought of when I first read it.

Now I'd like to draw attention to certain things.
First off, the protest was supposed to be held friday. What are the numbers? How many turned up? This is an important number because a similar thing happened in Norway a few years. I think last year or the year before that, over 4000 muslims gathered in Oslo for the purpose of hating on gays and to demand sharia.
Norway
But this year, an anti-ISIS protest was held where a few thousand norwegians went to and only a couple hundred muslims. So the ratio is skewed very unfavorably in the case of Norway.

So that's why numbers are important in the case of this rally. The only source for the numbers is this:
Germany: Muslims invite all faiths for day of solidarity against ISIS | MuslimVillage.com

Muslim organizations in Germany have held rallies in 2,000 mosques nationwide in protest against the ISIL and racist attacks targeting mosques and synagogues.

[...]

About 1,000 Muslims gathered on the street for Friday prayer outside the mosque which was extensively damaged in an arson attack in August 11.

So 1000 muslims went to the rally to pray for the mosques that were damaged by ISIS in august. Ok, but let's say that this very pro-muslim source (look at the title of the source) is wrong and that indeed, maybe there was double that, 2000 people who gathered to pray and stay in solidarity with everyone who suffered under ISIS, regardless of religion. 2000 would still be very little considering the size of the population. But it's not 2000, it's 1000 and about 400-500 jihadists. While and A for effort is nice, the reality is that the execution of the plan, the whole initiative, was lame as a lame duck. And it's sad that this is the state of affairs but this is the state of affairs.

And another thing, the rate of people joining ISIS from the west has increased. When ISIS started out it barely had any. The numbers quadrupled ever since they started moving in Iraq and demonstrating that they are victorious in conquests. And the money that they got is also more. For all intent and purposes, again, it seems that with all the bad press ISIS is getting, it just makes them more appealing.


EDIT: One more thing.
And this is in defense of the pathetic numbers who rallied last friday. It's not their fault. It isn't. It's not the muslims in Turkey who are on trial. Every single one of them has, legally speaking, nothing to prove. Neither morally. If they don't/didn't support ISIS in any way, then they are completely innocent. So the decent muslims have no obligation, no responsibility to go protest or condemn or do whatever if they don't want. Because they're not on trial. Legally and morally speaking.

But from a public standpoint, they are on trial. Well, not trial, more like a gameshow where you have to score points to win the grand prize. And so far, their scores are in the negatives from a public point of view. Not just in germany, but in all of europe. Name one European country with large muslim population where said muslim population has a good press? Nowhere. Even in muslim countries muslims don't have a good press. What muslim country would you point to and say "well, sure there are some bad things but at least they've got these good things going for them and they're actually making tons of progress". In the past 3 years the arab spring was turned the islamic nationalism levels to unprecedented heights. The arab spring wasn't a democratic uprising or a wave of pro-democracy as we hoped it was 3 years ago. That was lie. The media who all said that the root of the protests in Egypt or the rioting and ofc, revolution in Libya, or the mass but undocumented protests in countries like Jordan or Yemen, they've all been not pro-democracy, but the embodiment of islamic nationalism. It's wrong to call it "nationalism" because islam is not a nation but lets let that slide.

 

[German guy]

This article was from last week and I did see it and I think I posted it on some thread but I'm not sure. But what i am sure is what I thought of when I first read it.

Now I'd like to draw attention to certain things.
First off, the protest was supposed to be held friday. What are the numbers? How many turned up? This is an important number because a similar thing happened in Norway a few years. I think last year or the year before that, over 4000 muslims gathered in Oslo for the purpose of hating on gays and to demand sharia.
Norway
But this year, an anti-ISIS protest was held where a few thousand norwegians went to and only a couple hundred muslims. So the ratio is skewed very unfavorably in the case of Norway.

So that's why numbers are important in the case of this rally. The only source for the numbers is this:
Germany: Muslims invite all faiths for day of solidarity against ISIS | MuslimVillage.com



So 1000 muslims went to the rally to pray for the mosques that were damaged by ISIS in august. Ok, but let's say that this very pro-muslim source (look at the title of the source) is wrong and that indeed, maybe there was double that, 2000 people who gathered to pray and stay in solidarity with everyone who suffered under ISIS, regardless of religion. 2000 would still be very little considering the size of the population. But it's not 2000, it's 1000 and about 400-500 jihadists. While and A for effort is nice, the reality is that the execution of the plan, the whole initiative, was lame as a lame duck. And it's sad that this is the state of affairs but this is the state of affairs.

And another thing, the rate of people joining ISIS from the west has increased. When ISIS started out it barely had any. The numbers quadrupled ever since they started moving in Iraq and demonstrating that they are victorious in conquests. And the money that they got is also more. For all intent and purposes, again, it seems that with all the bad press ISIS is getting, it just makes them more appealing.

This action day was less about a ralley, the most important point were the prayers and preachings in the 2000 mosques. Assuming 50 Muslims attended each mosque (and I have no idea about the average mosque attendance in Germany), that means 100.000 Muslims heard their imams preaching against ISIS and anti-Jewish violence that day.

 

[Serenity]

Eh, **** it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. You'll never please everyone, there's people out there that will always hate all Muslims.

 

[German guy]

EDIT: One more thing.
And this is in defense of the pathetic numbers who rallied last friday. It's not their fault. It isn't. It's not the muslims in Turkey who are on trial. Every single one of them has, legally speaking, nothing to prove. Neither morally. If they don't/didn't support ISIS in any way, then they are completely innocent. So the decent muslims have no obligation, no responsibility to go protest or condemn or do whatever if they don't want. Because they're not on trial. Legally and morally speaking.

But from a public standpoint, they are on trial. Well, not trial, more like a gameshow where you have to score points to win the grand prize. And so far, their scores are in the negatives from a public point of view. Not just in germany, but in all of europe. Name one European country with large muslim population where said muslim population has a good press? Nowhere. Even in muslim countries muslims don't have a good press. What muslim country would you point to and say "well, sure there are some bad things but at least they've got these good things going for them and they're actually making tons of progress". In the past 3 years the arab spring was turned the islamic nationalism levels to unprecedented heights. The arab spring wasn't a democratic uprising or a wave of pro-democracy as we hoped it was 3 years ago. That was lie. The media who all said that the root of the protests in Egypt or the rioting and ofc, revolution in Libya, or the mass but undocumented protests in countries like Jordan or Yemen, they've all been not pro-democracy, but the embodiment of islamic nationalism. It's wrong to call it "nationalism" because islam is not a nation but lets let that slide.

Uhm ... looking at that source a little more closely: YOu are aware that this 1000 figure was just about *one single mosque* out of the 2000 who participated? There are 1999 more, and while I don't have numbers about their ralleys, it seems you are totally on the wrong track here.

 

[Rainman05]

This action day was less about a ralley, the most important point were the prayers and preachings in the 2000 mosques. Assuming 50 Muslims attended each mosque (and I have no idea about the average mosque attendance in Germany), that means 100.000 Muslims heard their imams preaching against ISIS and anti-Jewish violence that day.

Why don't they publish those numbers.

There was prayers here in Romania for the people who got killed by ISIS, I know coz my grandmother, who never watches the news (she likes to watch spanish and korean soap-operas), told me she heard about it from her priest. She didn't even knew that there were christians in Iraq or that there was a war. But it was never published, nobody said that "oh my, prayers will be held in the churches for the people killed by ISIS". There was no need for a concentrated effort or a PR campaign with announcements or anything.


It's not an isolated case. A dozen imams in France signed a petition denouncing the riots.
Some muslims rallied in Norway against ISIS. And a few more cases.
But they're ISOLATED cases. They're solitary, small-scale cases and they're not the zeitgeist. They're not the dominant aspect. At least not publicly.

And besides, it's easy to denounce ISIS. I mean, ISIS is hated by everyone with a brain because everyone can be on their hitlist. The majority of people they killed were muslims. Granted, shiites, but still muslims. They did all the public executions and mass killings. It's not especially hard to find people to hate them.

Uhm ... looking at that source a little more closely: YOu are aware that this 1000 figure was just about *one single mosque* out of the 2000 who participated? There are 1999 more, and while I don't have numbers about their ralleys, it seems you are totally on the wrong track here.

Ok, but they didn't publish the numbers. And believe me, I looked, i googled, no other numbers.

And it's been 4 days.

I would love to be completely wrong. To be as you said, 100k, hell, more, but it doesn't seem likely. Otherwise the headlines would be: 100k muslims rallied and prayed in anti-ISIS demonstration on Friday.
Or
Tens of thousands of muslims in germany rallied against ISIS.

But there are no such headlines.

 

[German guy]

It's not an isolated case. A dozen imams in France signed a petition denouncing the riots.
Some muslims rallied in Norway against ISIS. And a few more cases.
But they're ISOLATED cases. They're solitary, small-scale cases and they're not the zeitgeist. They're not the dominant aspect. At least not publicly.

No, sorry, but 2000 mosques participating is not "isolated" at all. It's about all mosques that exist in Germany, except maybe some die-hard Salafist mosques, according to an educated guess (as Mbig pointed out, there were only 1400 mosques in Germany in 2007).

And besides, it's easy to denounce ISIS. I mean, ISIS is hated by everyone with a brain because everyone can be on their hitlist. The majority of people they killed were muslims. Granted, shiites, but still muslims. They did all the public executions and mass killings. It's not especially hard to find people to hate them.

They explicitly denounced Muslim violence against Christians and against Jews(!) and synagogues(!) as well.

 

[Rainman05]

Eh, **** it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. You'll never please everyone, there's people out there that will always hate all Muslims.

This isn't hate, this is actually not responding with emotion to an emotionally charged dialogue.

 

[German guy]

Ok, but they didn't publish the numbers. And believe me, I looked, i googled, no other numbers.

And it's been 4 days.

I would love to be completely wrong. To be as you said, 100k, hell, more, but it doesn't seem likely. Otherwise the headlines would be: 100k muslims rallied and prayed in anti-ISIS demonstration on Friday.
Or
Tens of thousands of muslims in germany rallied against ISIS.

But there are no such headlines.

Was it even the plan of that "action day" to hold ralleys at each of the 2000 participating mosques? Well possible they limited the ralleys to a couple of big mosques, such as the one with 1000 people attending, and the majority of other mosques just provided according prayers and preachings by their imams? (Which makes sense for a couple of reasons, not least because many smaller mosques most likely don't have much attendence anyway.)

It looks to me that you've made up your opinion on Muslims in the West already, and when confronted with new information that doesn't confirm it, you turn around the burden of proof.

 

[Serenity]

This isn't hate, this is actually not responding with emotion to an emotionally charged dialogue.

I don't believe i quoted you.

I've seen numerous posts all over the forum the last few weeks stating that more Muslims need to speak out and condemn these extremists. Post something positive showing Muslims that do and this is the result. Fourth post in there is already an idiotic strawman post that does nothing to encourage any kind of reasonable or civil debate.

Hence my damned if they do and damned if they don't response - and i stand by what i said and make absolutely no apologies for that.

 

[mbig]

I'm glad you approve of the effort.

Frankly, I have no idea how many mosques there are in Germany, but I assume the number is fluctuating strongly, as by far most of these mosques are just "backyard mosques", meaning communities are just renting some apartment somewhere in the city (rather than erecting a building, which is way beyond the means of most Muslim communities in Germany, as far as I can tell). At least that's what it looks like in Berlin, although this is a city with a relatively large Muslim population..

Whatever one calls them, they are growing exponentially.
And that diminishment cuts both ways.
How many of the '2000' anti-ISIS were "backyard Mosques"?

If the statement in your quote is true, that indeed a majority of Muslims in Germany support Sharia law, that is worrying. But the article is a bit unclear about the origin of that claim; it says this was found in a study, and two have been recently conducted, "one by the German government". And the other, where this statement might be from? From the Evangelical Association of Fighters Against Muslim Satanism?

Most European Muslims want Sharia
Ingrid Carlqvist 17 December, 2013
Most European Muslims want sharia | Dispatch International

A majority of Muslims want sharia law to take precedence over the secular laws of their European host countries. This according to a new survey WZB Berlin Social Science Center based on interviews with Muslims in 6 countries including Sweden. The survey ought to raise eyebrows among Western politicians say researchers.

Turkish and Moroccan immigrants to Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and Sweden were asked three questions:

Is sharia is more important to you than the laws of the land you are living in? (Yes: 66%).
Do you think there is only one legitimate interpretation of the Koran that should be binding on all Muslims? (Yes: 75%).
Do you think Muslims ought to return to the ”Islams roots”? (Yes: 60%).

Those who answered yes to all questions were labeled ”consistent fundamentalists” – and they make up 44% of all Muslims covered by the survey. Fundamentalist attitudes are equally prevalent among younger and older Muslims.

According to the study (which was conducted in 2008, but not published until now), the situation is Worst in Austria. 73% of Austrian Muslims of Turkish and Moroccan descent consider sharia to be more important than secular laws, 70% think there is only one correct interpretation of the Koran and 76% want Muslims to return to their Islamic roots.
In total 55% of the Austrian Muslims covered in the survey answered yes to all three questions.

The author of the report, the Dutch sociologist Ruud Koopmans, says that the study reveals a Remarkably Similar picture as that presented in Other German studies, e.g., Muslime in Deutschland (Muslims in Germany) from 2007, which documented that 47% of German Muslims considered religious rules to be more important than democracy – the exact same percentage which the new study shows would prefer the laws of the Koran to German laws.

Equally frightening is study’s conclusion that there is a great deal of Muslim enmity towards other groups. 60% of the surveyed Muslims say that they refuse to have homosexual friends and 45% answer that one cannot trust Jews. Even here the Austrian Muslims stand out. 69% of them won’t accept homosexuals as friends and 63% say that Jews are not to be trusted. 66% claim that the West tries to destroy Islam.

For the sake of comparison, non-Muslim Europeans were questioned about their suspicion of Jews (8% said yes), homosexuals (10%), Muslims (21%). 1.4% harbored suspicions against all three groups.

As Koopmans sees it, Muslim fundamentalism is not ”an innocent form of strict religiosity.
Whereas about 1 in 5 indigenous Europeans may be deemed Islamophobes, the degree of anti-Western phobia among Muslims – for which there, strangely, is no name, but might labeled Occidentophobia [the Occident = the West] – is much higher: 54% believe that the Western world aims to wreck Islam.

”These results”, Koopmans continues, ”clearly Contradict what one often hears – that Islamic fundamentalism is a marginal phenomenon in Western Europe and that it is no different from the degree of fundamentalism among the Christian majority.
Both of these claims are obviously false as almost Half of the European Muslims want Muslims to return to Islam’s roots, think that there is only one interpretation of the Koran and that its laws are more important than secular laws. Among indigenous Christians, LESS than 1 in 25 can be characterized as a fundamentalist in this sense.

Koopmans continues:
”Both the extent of Islamic religious fundamentalism and its concomitants – homophobia, Anti-Semitism, and ’Occidentophobia’ – ought to cause serious uneasiness among politicians as well as Muslims civic leaders. Of course one cannot equate religious fundamentalism with a willingness to support or participate in religiously motivated violence...

Commenting on the study, the German paper Die Welt notes that the results cast serious doubt on the unbridled optimism professed by Europe’s multiculturalists, who assert that in time, Muslim fellow citizens will embrace the West’s liberal and democratic way of thinking. ”The study does not lend itself to simplistic conclusions”, writes Die Welt. ”But it must be realized: Democracies must watch out for those who consider free societies as something that must be vanquished.”

A growing number of European voices warn against the increasingly aggressive attempts by Islamic organizations like the OIC – with 57 Muslim countries – to pressure Western politicians to Criminalize all criticism of Islam.".."​

SHOVE your clownish emoticons

But all other headlines, IMO, are more appeals to ugly xenophobia than anything else. You know, these old Nazis who feel disturbed when they see a building that doesn't look "German" enough for their taste, or people who feel nobody has a right to pray as long as he isn't Christian.

I see nothing wrong with controlling immigration to the degree it doesn't change the Culture of a Nation.
That is the cohesion that Makes the character OF a nation.

As far as I am concerned, all I demand from Muslims here is to respect the Constitution and to clearly denounce violence. As long as they do that, they may have the most outlandish ideas, I'm fine with that, since that's what most other Germans have too. In that case, they're ready for debate and the argument with them is on a level where it belongs, which means civil public discourse. They can pray as much as they want, call for Allah as often as they like, eat halal food as they please and build mosques as they please -- as long as they meet these two requirements.

So you are in favor of 'Creeping Sharia', Cultural change by demographic Jihad.
Guilt from WWII is still prevalent.

Mbig, I assume you have good reasons for taking the problems with Muslims so seriously, and focusing so much on it. As I don't know you, I have no idea what these reasons could be. But although we might sometimes disagree, or at least be at cross purposes, I appreciate your passion.

I read the News. You? (necessarily ignore it to keep your pathetic politics)
Have ya Noticed what's happening in Europe, Scandinavia, Middle East, Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia?
But Hey, All Your Pathetic Islamist Apologism MIGHT make the world safer for Baha'i..... LOFL.

 

[Rainman05]

Was it even the plan of that "action day" to hold ralleys at each of the 2000 participating mosques? Well possible they limited the ralleys to a couple of big mosques, such as the one with 1000 people attending, and the majority of other mosques just provided according prayers and preachings by their imams? (Which makes sense for a couple of reasons, not least because many smaller mosques most likely don't have much attendence anyway.)

It looks to me that you've made up your opinion on Muslims in the West already, and when confronted with new information that doesn't confirm it, you turn around the burden of proof.

You are correct, I have an opinion and it's a strong one and you aware of it because you read the 3-4 threads I made about it. And my opinion is valid. It's rooted into a lot of activities that happen. And you are fully aware of all this because we talked about it and I explained my position with ample detail and I also made caveats about turks and persians and all that, and you know all this.

And again, I ask, where are the headlines? "tens of thousands of muslims prayed in solidarity with jews and christians who suffered under ISIS", etc.

Ever since the arab string started, it was hit and miss at the start but now, in the past few months especially, the news has been overwhelmingly bad in regards to muslims everywhere. And that's despite the best efforts to not have the news leak, including state authorities colluding in to censor the press about it.

Now a good thing happens, this rally, and where are the numbers? 1000 people rallied in front of a mosque, and the group that organized this claims that 2000 mosques will do prayers for jews and christians and all that. Ok. Where are the headlines about it? It would be a huge deal.

If I were a journalist who wanted to promote the benefits of islam in the west, as many are, why aren't they covering this? I'm guessing because it was a flop. It was something done for a stunt effect that came out short.

 

[Rainman05]

I don't believe i quoted you.

I've seen numerous posts all over the forum the last few weeks stating that more Muslims need to speak out and condemn these extremists. Post something positive showing Muslims that do and this is the result. Fourth post in there is already an idiotic strawman post that does nothing to encourage any kind of reasonable or civil debate.

Hence my damned if they do and damned if they don't response - and i stand by what i said and make absolutely no apologies for that.

Your was didn't quote anyone so that means it's fair game.

I posted some of those posts myself. I posted about the rally against ISIS in norway where a few hundred muslims and a few thousands norwegians went to and yelled how much they hate ISIS.

And that sounds great, right? Muslims and norwegians coming together to hate on some horrid people. Awesome.

But put that in contrast with the 2013 muslim rally that gathered 4000 muslims in order to hate on gays and promote sharia law.

When you have context, it suddenly becomes a bit more damp.

 

[PeteEU]

Most European Muslims want Sharia
Ingrid Carlqvist 17 December, 2013
Most European Muslims want sharia | Dispatch International

A majority of Muslims want sharia law to take precedence over the secular laws of their European host countries. This according to a new survey WZB Berlin Social Science Center based on interviews with Muslims in 6 countries including Sweden. The survey ought to raise eyebrows among Western politicians say researchers.​

Problem is ... Dispatch International is a known far right wing anti-Muslim anti-Immigrant publication.

If we look past this issue, the next problem is there is no link to the study.. the webpage sure, but not directly to the study. So why is that?

Then there are the supposed questions asked.. talk about being broad.

Is sharia is more important to you than the laws of the land you are living in?

Other than the grammatical error, then this is one hell of a broad question. Ask the same of religious Christians on the bible and you would get a similar answer.

Do you think there is only one legitimate interpretation of the Koran that should be binding on all Muslims?

What kind of idiotic question is that? Christians would say yes also if asked the same question. Of course the "only one legitimate interpretation" is up to debate and the question it self is so broad it is moronic.

Do you think Muslims ought to return to the "Islamic roots"

Another extremely broad question that can be interpreted wildly and if asked to religious Christians you would get a similar answer.

And if you answered yes to all 3 questions then you were a fundamentalist.. wtf? This study makes no sense what so ever.​

 

[PeteEU]

Your was didn't quote anyone so that means it's fair game.

I posted some of those posts myself. I posted about the rally against ISIS in norway where a few hundred muslims and a few thousands norwegians went to and yelled how much they hate ISIS.

And that sounds great, right? Muslims and norwegians coming together to hate on some horrid people. Awesome.

But put that in contrast with the 2013 muslim rally that gathered 4000 muslims in order to hate on gays and promote sharia law.

When you have context, it suddenly becomes a bit more damp.

Considering the amount anti-gay crap going on in the Christian world, then does that dampen the "Christian" protests against ISIS also?