Murders, shootings soar in Chicago

[ludin]

And the article claims shooting incidents have nearly doubled as well, from 359 to 677 for the same period in years past.

Chicago has had 2-1/2 years of legal concealed carry now, but I think the jury's still out on whether it's lowering violent crime. These shooting statistics don't seem to reflect concealed carry's helping here in shooting stats, which makes sense I suppose.

most of these shootings are probably drug or gang related.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You guys still got it pretty good, and you don't even know it!

When was the last time a Swede declared bankruptcy (which means you lose your house if there's reasonable equity in it) because they happened to get sick and couldn't pay their hospital? When was the last time a Swede had to decide between rent, food, or the kids' prescriptions?

These scenarios occur to large numbers of Americans every day.

Not to mention the insane number of shootings that occur regularly, as evidenced by this very thread.

Irregardless of power, might, and economic affluence, I judge a country and it's government by the quality of life enjoyed by the greater citizenry; the rest is superfluous in my mind. And America's really been slipping as of late! (and I blame the forces at the top)

I think you meant irrespective, but the sentiment there is what most Americans miss all together. Military might is what some Americans makes a country great. If that were so North Korea would be at the top of the list one of the smallest countries with the largest standing army in the world.

I think national greatness comes being a true community where you see others as "neighbors" and no one has to stress about high medical costs and prescriptions. I kind of like not having to lock my door, I really like being able to go anywhere any time of the night or day, I like not seeing police cars everywhere. The only downside is out stupid national motto: "I'm sorry."

 

[Citizen.Seven]

And the article claims shooting incidents have nearly doubled as well, from 359 to 677 for the same period in years past.

Chicago has had 2-1/2 years of legal concealed carry now, but I think the jury's still out on whether it's lowering violent crime. These shooting statistics don't seem to reflect concealed carry's helping here in shooting stats, which makes sense I suppose.

Perhaps because the hoops and expense of CC has made adoption VERY low: The latest Illinois Concealed Carry statistics by county

That link shows cook county, the county that contains Chicago, has about 0.5% of residents getting their CC. That's laughably small for such a high crime location. I wouldn't expect any effect until that gets up to several percent, at least 3 and probably more like 5. Of course, given Illinois self-defense laws, most citizen shoots would be a never-ending nightmare no matter how justified.

 

[Chomsky]

Not to my knowledge.

What we do know is that males have higher rates of alcohol consumption than women. In genetics the only testing with results is that which shows certain racial groups are a greater risk of developing an alcohol dependency; they would be African, and East Asian, due to a difference in their metabolism. Oddly this [I forget the name] however does not exist in North American Natives or African Americans.

Having families where one child is an alcoholic is not rare. I had not heard the twins story but am not surprised. My entire family dating back at least three generations were all hard core alcoholics, both mother and father. However my aunt and uncle gave it up easily, and all but one of their kids is free of the disease. But my youngest cousin and I walk in recovery.

Having said that, while it may not be genetic, anyone growing up in an alcoholic home is at high risk simply from the culture of alcoholism. I have said that practicing alcoholics make other people drink

To the bolded:

You'd better believe it!

I had a relatively short (< 1 yr) live-in relationship with an alcoholic women who was on & off the wagon. Dayem was she a beautiful person sober, but when she drank the only way I could survive her was to stay drunk with her! So I kicked her out. Kicking her out was the right thing for me, but I'm eternal grateful to her for making me aware of my own drinking through her practicing AA. A part of me still misses her because she had so much to give, but the her entire package was too much to take, so my survival mechanism kicked-in and out she went.

I subsequently ended-up with a women who didn't drink or use substances at all, not through any need to stay clean, but simply through her personal choice and lifestyle. She's also a very honest & ethical person, so figuring she was good for me I married her and left the drunks alone, as much fun as they occasionally were.

And all's been good since then! :thumbs:

 

[Chomsky]

Perhaps because the hoops and expense of CC has made adoption VERY low: The latest Illinois Concealed Carry statistics by county

That link shows cook county, the county that contains Chicago, has about 0.5% of residents getting their CC. That's laughably small for such a high crime location. I wouldn't expect any effect until that gets up to several percent, at least 3 and probably more like 5. Of course, given Illinois self-defense laws, most citizen shoots would be a never-ending nightmare no matter how justified.

That's fair enough.

I agree we'll have to give this some time to play out.

 

[Chomsky]

most of these shootings are probably drug or gang related.

No argument there.

Whether more guns available legally means "more will be diverted" remains to be seen.

 

[Fearandloathing]

To the bolded:

You'd better believe it!

I had a relatively short (< 1 yr) live-in relationship with an alcoholic women who was on & off the wagon. Dayem was she a beautiful person sober, but when she drank the only way I could survive her was to stay drunk with her! So I kicked her out. Kicking her out was the right thing for me, but I'm eternal grateful to her for making me aware of my own drinking through her practicing AA. A part of me still misses her because she had so much to give, but the her entire package was too much to take, so my survival mechanism kicked-in and out she went.

I subsequently ended-up with a women who didn't drink or use substances at all, not through any need to stay clean, but simply through her personal choice and lifestyle. She's also a very honest & ethical person, so figuring she was good for me I married her and left the drunks alone, as much fun as they occasionally were.

And all's been good since then! :thumbs:

Neil Young said it "Every junkie is like a setting sun." All this beauty and charm just gloriously explodes across the universe....

My late sponsor used to say "We are too beautiful" I used to preach "In one way or another every person in this room is a genius" and I hold to that statement.

We are like an aurora borealis, aglow in the sky, irresistible, luring and strangely comforting......and dangerous. In making my amends to former lovers, I learned something that I didn't think was possible, they had loved me. And I drank because I didn't think I was loveable.

It is said that for each alcoholic/addict 15 people will be taken down. I think it's more like a fifty

 

[Chomsky]

The first noticeable result from the body cameras tested here was a substantial drop in complaints against police. The new chief says not having to investigate these bogus claims will almost pay for the cameras

If true, that's excellent!

But the technician in me says a drop in complaints cannot be wholly attributed to 'bogus' citizen complaints, without further data!

Is it possible the boys in blue are on better behaviour when being filmed? I suspect so. Same with the citizens.

I most likely suspect the drop in complaints is due to the actions of both the citizenry and the coppers, which is a good thing and exactly what we would hope for!

There's something to be said of transparency!

 

[nota bene]

I have said that practicing alcoholics make other people drink

Sometimes they do. I used to call this "defensive drinking."

 

[Fearandloathing]

If true, that's excellent!

But the technician in me says a drop in complaints cannot be wholly attributed to 'bogus' citizen complaints, without further data!

Is it possible the boys in blue are on better behaviour when being filmed? I suspect so. Same with the citizens.

I most likely suspect the drop in complaints is due to the actions of both the citizenry and the coppers, which is a good thing and exactly what we would hope for!

There's something to be said of transparency!

I would say that there is some of that in all of it. However, what he was talking about is where the 'victim' complained and they examined the tape and said "nope"

I am all for having the cops on good behavior as that was part of the initial drive like dashboard cameras. While I have deep respect for the VPD, I am not naive enough to think there isn't an asshole or two in there, or that on occasion a good guy can loose it.

Where myself and some cops are looking for results are the confrontations with "disturbed individuals". About once a year, maybe less, some mental case goes off his meds and becomes a threat whom the cops have no choice but to shoot. Of course every time it happens an entire segment of the populace weighs in...but not like an average city, but in a city where four RCMP officers murdered a Polish Immigrant and tried to cover it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_inci

So, we're are really ****ing touchy about death by cop. Only we don't go like Ferguson. What happened was when the public found out the Mounties lied and covered it up was it went viral, and stayed viral for a year until a special inquiry was called. Individual RCMP officers still complain that they take heat for Dziekanski. Some time ago a cop posted that he had been verbally abused while on a speeding stop, one line he suffered I recall was "kill any Polish immigrants lately?"

The response was swift and uncharacteristically brutal. "Stop lying to us."

So cameras are something a lot of people want

 

[Chomsky]

Neil Young said it "Every junkie is like a setting sun." All this beauty and charm just gloriously explodes across the universe....

My late sponsor used to say "We are too beautiful" I used to preach "In one way or another every person in this room is a genius" and I hold to that statement.

We are like an aurora borealis, aglow in the sky, irresistible, luring and strangely comforting......and dangerous. In making my amends to former lovers, I learned something that I didn't think was possible, they had loved me. And I drank because I didn't think I was loveable.

It is said that for each alcoholic/addict 15 people will be taken down. I think it's more like a fifty

You know F & L, I had a priest buddy (now deceased) who claimed the use of substances could be thought of as "a search for spirituality". He encouraged those 12 steppers that often come back to the Church to consider their addiction in these terms, and not beat themselves up for it, claiming it's natural to search-out spirituality.

In a word: "You did something you're natural driven to do, and you consequently spent some time & effort pursuing dead-ends to find it. But now you've found it, so good for you"!

That's a pretty infectious positive message!

 

[Fearandloathing]

Sometimes they do. I used to call this "defensive drinking."

Great line!

In the recovery field it's called "enabling", but "self defense" is way more accurate.

But God help anyone who tried to stay with me. I have the unique situation where I used to share a drink and sometimes a joint with my doctor at a local pub. When I told him I had joined a 12 step group he said "the really, really scary part about you was your capacity. You drank Aussies under the table"

 

[nota bene]

Great line!

In the recovery field it's called "enabling", but "self defense" is way more accurate.

But God help anyone who tried to stay with me. I have the unique situation where I used to share a drink and sometimes a joint with my doctor at a local pub. When I told him I had joined a 12 step group he said "the really, really scary part about you was your capacity. You drank Aussies under the table"

I inherited a hollow leg myself. BTW, I first made that "defensive drinking" remark eons ago because, sigh, it was absolutely true.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You know F & L, I had a priest buddy (now deceased) who claimed the use of substances could be thought of as "a search for spirituality". He encouraged those 12 steppers that often come back to the Church to consider their addiction in these terms, and not beat themselves up for it, claiming it's natural to search-out spirituality.

In a word: "You did something you're natural driven to do, and you consequently spent some time & effort pursuing dead-ends to find it. But now you've found it, so good for you"!

That's a pretty infectious positive message!

There is a bit of truth in that. We all say we were born with a hole in us and drank to fill it up. Some say "God sized hole". In recovery I came to accept that my sobriety was a gift of grace from a power greater than myself and that led me to being baptized after a four year search. During that time I read the Qor'an, and all I could on many faiths and came to the conclusion that, boiled down to the simplest state, all great religions said the same thing: "don't be an asshole"

But he is correct in saying that the walk to sobriety is a spiritual journey as we seek to "continue to improve our conscience contact with God." Thus, if we are filling up 'the hole' with God in place of booze and drugs, then yes I could say the desire part of the addiction is rooted in a search for God

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I expect people to leave that hole and find some place to live where this kind of thing isn't a problem. Look for places that need workers and move there. It's harder for some than others, but it can be done.

How do households in extreme poverty move to these new locations? Do you have data on this activity? Are there relocation programs currently available for this demographic?

 

[Groogrux]

"At that rate, the city in on pace for about 560 homicides..."
That's about how many homicides there are in Canada in a year.

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of the victims. How many were gang/drug related homicides vs. random violence committed by strangers.

 

[calamity]

The BLM movement is a socialist movement. It is rendering chaos with the express intent of installing socialism in America. The name is a magician's trick. It doesn't offend one's sensibilities like the slogan 'freak capitalism' would.

I do not presume to know what BLM is. But, I do know what it is not. It's not about saving black lives.

 

[calamity]

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of the victims. How many were gang/drug related homicides vs. random violence committed by strangers.

lol...I lay down 20 bucks right now to say non-drug related, purely stranger on stranger homicides make up about 50 of those 500 murders.

 

[Groogrux]

lol...I lay down 20 bucks right now to say non-drug related, purely stranger on stranger homicides make up about 50 of those 500 murders.

Most likely. The numbers sound scary, but once you start digging into the details, it's not really that dangerous of a place to live. I live right outside Philly. Everybody jumps up and down about the violence here. It's all gang and drug related. Avoid certain neighborhoods, stay off of SEPTA late at night, etc and it really won't have any effect on you.

 

[calamity]

How do households in extreme poverty move to these new locations? Do you have data on this activity? Are there relocation programs currently available for this demographic?

There you go with that "extreme poverty" bullcrap again.

This is extreme poverty:

This is just living like a ****:

Notice who has the air conditioned, modern apartments with shiny late model vehicles lined up and down the street, and then see who has no running water or modern heating apparatus. Guess who has the higher homicide rate?

 

[calamity]

Most likely. The numbers sound scary, but once you start digging into the details, it's not really that dangerous of a place to live. I live right outside Philly. Everybody jumps up and down about the violence here. It's all gang and drug related. Avoid certain neighborhoods, stay off of SEPTA late at night, etc and it really won't have any effect on you.

The danger is getting hit by a stray bullet or pissing off one of the gangsters and, of course, trying to raise a kid in that **** who does not get caught up in gangs or the drug trade.

 

[Groogrux]

The danger is getting hit by a stray bullet or pissing off one of the gangsters and, of course, trying to raise a kid in that **** who does not get caught up in gangs or the drug trade.

I'm sure it's awful if you're forced to live in a drug infested, gang infested neighborhood. However, I'm even wondering how often people get hit with stray bullets?

 

[calamity]

I'm sure it's awful if you're forced to live in a drug infested, gang infested neighborhood. However, I'm even wondering how often people get hit with stray bullets?

I believe that does actually happen quite a bit.

Chicago Bureau – Stray Bullets Struck Over 300 Innocents in U.S. Within 1 Year, Study Finds

If we add to that the people in the wrong place at the wrong time, like those who were with the intended targets at the BBQ in Pennsylvania last month where 6 were killed, the numbers are probably significant.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

There you go with that "extreme poverty" bullcrap again.

I'm sorry, did you address the question that was posed?

No...you didn't....you ignored it to try to settle a score you lost a while back.

If you can't help the other poster in showing these programs to help extremely poor households move to greener pastures, yer gonna be ignored.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Most likely. The numbers sound scary, but once you start digging into the details, it's not really that dangerous of a place to live. I live right outside Philly. Everybody jumps up and down about the violence here. It's all gang and drug related. Avoid certain neighborhoods, stay off of SEPTA late at night, etc and it really won't have any effect on you.

It is the 1970's all over again in some places, but notice how well you adapt.

In Chicago the crime rate should appropriately land on the top of Rahms desk, he has been there long enough that the explosion of an already bad crime rate is his fault.