Murders, shootings soar in Chicago

[brothern]

Not sure what point you are trying to make....but like Canada, Chicago has gun control. Chicago metro population is about 9.5 million compared with all of Canada's 33 million. Taking in consideration that Canada population is spread out over 3.8 million square miles I find the murder rate in Canada to be quite high...taking in consideration that Canada has limiting gun control and three times the population of Chicago. The murder rate in Toronto, for example, has increased by 140% this year alone and its only been three months.

Ha, we don't have gun control. What laws that weren't gutted run up until the city limit, and then a foot outside of it -- i.e. the "metro" part of the "metroland" -- it's land of Guns-R-Mart.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Yeah..I bet you are right, the cops are 'wold' there asses off. (in Britain, often in place names) wold....a piece of high, open, uncultivated land or moor. Does that describe Chicago? Close enough....

Work their asses off. And I love this town, it's my home.

 

[Grand Mal]

Not sure what point you are trying to make....but like Canada, Chicago has gun control. Chicago metro population is about 9.5 million compared with all of Canada's 33 million. Taking in consideration that Canada population is spread out over 3.8 million square miles I find the murder rate in Canada to be quite high...taking in consideration that Canada has limiting gun control and three times the population of Chicago. The murder rate in Toronto, for example, has increased by 140% this year alone and its only been three months.

Actually, I shouldn't have made the comparison. In Canada the highest murder rates are in rural area, not in the cities. Not sure why that is, unless it's that there's more guns in rural areas. Or just the cultural difference. The murder rate in Chicago was 15.1 in 2014- that year in Nunavut, the least-populated territory in Canada, it was not much less, 10.9.

 

[imyoda]

What I find interesting in the statement by the Chicago police is the claim of increased police activity in the month of March....but the murder rate rose by 29%? I am guessing the only increased in police activity was in the local donut shops.

Is this the way you support your local police? ...........

Are you rooting for the murders?

Or is it you mean something else .....................which you do not have the #@!$ to say out loud?

 

[jmotivator]

Ha, we don't have gun control. What laws that weren't gutted run up until the city limit, and then a foot outside of it -- i.e. the "metro" part of the "metroland" -- it's land of Guns-R-Mart.

How many gun crimes are committed by the legal owner of the weapon used?

 

[Chomsky]

All close, but not right. We don't have "gangs" nor do we have protection issues. The CPD eradicated proper gangs decades ago, which outside of Chicago is misunderstood because some Chicagoans (but mostly non-Chicagoans) refer to them still as gangs. Regardless imagine of those all gangs that were the source of violence in the 80s and 90s --those hardly exist anymore.

Instead Chicago's problem is entirely rooted in the availability of handguns to teenagers, which is why city leaders attempted to ban them.
We have thousands of high school aged kids and young adults living in high poverty areas who are unemployed, have no life prospects and literally nothing better to do.
So take all of your high school drama -- breakups, jealous, pregnancies, bullying, rivalries, etc. -- make the involved individuals unemployed and under-educated, and then hand each and everyone of them handguns.

That's what we are dealing with, and that's why CPD has literally no effect upon the shootings.

To the bolded:

Well, we may be dealing with nomenclature here, but there are still plenty of gangs & gang activity going around. There may not be a lot of examples of large gangs structured like Jeff Fort's El Rukins, but there's plenty of others of various size and organization, mostly organized around dealing drugs. And let's not forget the Mexican drug organizations on 26th St (and formerly in Pilson).

 

[Fearandloathing]

Actually, I shouldn't have made the comparison. In Canada the highest murder rates are in rural area, not in the cities. Not sure why that is, unless it's that there's more guns in rural areas. Or just the cultural difference. The murder rate in Chicago was 15.1 in 2014- that year in Nunavut, the least-populated territory in Canada, it was not much less, 10.9.

And with that my friend you rip the veil off Canada's national shame, our treatment of the native population. It may sound like an old saw, but this is the result of nearly a century of residential schools and the myriad of mistakes our governments have committed over the years. That and the corruption within the reserves has created a cultural disaster.

But wait. Trudeau just heard from Carolyn Bennett our new Northern Affairs minister who has reported that the "missing women" problem is not in the hundreds, but thousands. It appears we need to admit to ourselves that these women didn't "disappear" they were murdered through domestic violence, chance encounter, drug business, whatever. But we need to shut our collective pie hole on bragging rights in some areas.

I agree 500 homicides for 38 million people is too high, especially with a plummeting crime rate

 

[chuckiechan]

For day by day Chicago crime stats:

2016 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!

You can see that the cops have really backed off. They are not shooting people as BLM demands, and murders are on a upward trajectory. Will it stay that way until there is only one man standing?

I believe in giving citizens what they want.

EDIT: Murder clearance rate is ~ 20%.

 

[Chomsky]

You have it backwards. The killing is between gangs.

Yes that's true, but the violence is brought forth over drug deals and drug turf! IOW, directly resulting from the War on Drugs.

When Chicago had alcohol prohibition, it gave rise to the largest and most murderous crime cartels the city and country had ever seen in the modern post industrial revolution era. But now, that's gone. Think of it: there's no one standing on corners selling half-pints or tall-boys today, while their heavily armed partners hiding in the gangway ready to pounce if needed. There's no money in it!

But the above scenario is carried-out today on countless streetcorners in Chicago, with guys selling rocks & mexican mud. Why? Because the WoD has made it profitable to do so! It's really that simple.

 

[Chomsky]

Actually, I shouldn't have made the comparison. In Canada the highest murder rates are in rural area, not in the cities. Not sure why that is, unless it's that there's more guns in rural areas. Or just the cultural difference. The murder rate in Chicago was 15.1 in 2014- that year in Nunavut, the least-populated territory in Canada, it was not much less, 10.9.

Extreme northern climate, alcoholism, access to firearms, and Inuit social & economic issues?

That might be a good start.

And the long winter 24hr solstice added to all that drinking, isolation, and cabin-fever, can't be good either!

The U.S. Native-American lands are affected similarly, but without the complete winter solstice and ultra-extreme winter climate.

 

[Chomsky]

Work their asses off. And I love this town, it's my home.

I cannot think of a much tougher job in America than a Chicago Cop working the tougher areas of the South or West sides!

Dealing with the crap in the street, the personal politics interacting with their brother officers, the politics from the department above and the 5th Fl of city hall, and the pressure from the media and civil rights groups! Yowza, you've got to be one tough sonnavabitch!

Good employment, well paid, great bennies, a pension, and one of the strongest unions in the country, plus professional courtesy; but dayem, it's a helleva' tough job!

And it's tougher than ever today! If you'd like, please refer to my post #8 in this thread, for my further observations on this.

 

[Utility Man]

Weather History for KORD Max Avg Min

Month of January, 2015 Mean Temperature 36 °F 23 °F 0 °F
Month of January, 2016 Mean Temperature 41 °F 25 °F 2 °F

Month of February, 2015 Mean Temperature 32 °F 15 °F -2 °F
Month of February, 2016 Mean Temperature 52 °F 31 °F 10 °F

Month of March, 2015 Mean Temperature 58 °F 36 °F 10 °F
Month of March, 2016 Mean Temperature 64 °F 44 °F 22 °F

For the most part I would describe this past winter as wet and mild.

After one of our coldest winters, some suggested that concealed carry caused the murder rate to plummet(before the permits even went out). Where are they now ?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...ed-residents-send-murder-rate-plummeting.html

:doh

 

[faithful_servant]

You are absolutely correct. 515

Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory (Number of homicides)

Please note the jump last year in BC. There were over 22 drug gang related homicides where most of the dead were on visitor visas

Canadian Drive-by:
Driving up to the house of your biggest criminal competition and then driving away 2 miles over the speed limit while playing Milli Vanilli loud enough to hear outside the car.

 

[faithful_servant]

And the article claims shooting incidents have nearly doubled as well, from 359 to 677 for the same period in years past.

Chicago has had 2-1/2 years of legal concealed carry now, but I think the jury's still out on whether it's lowering violent crime. These shooting statistics don't seem to reflect concealed carry's helping here in shooting stats, which makes sense I suppose.

So how many of those shootings involved someone legally carrying a concealed weapon?? If you really wanted carrying a firearm to make a difference in the crime rate, make open carry legal in Illinois. From a criminal perspective, there's no difference between an unarmed victim and an potential victim carrying a concealed weapon. But put a .45 Colt on someone's hip and suddenly the criminal no longer sees a potential victim, he sees someone to stay the hell away from. If there are enough folks around carrying openly, he'll most likely just go home, light up a blunt and think twice about doing that again....

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: Chicago off to deadliest start in more than 15 years

Truth. Black Lives don't Matter. They don't matter to black people.

No. Lives don't matter to people who are willing to kill to get what they want. Skin color has nothing to do with it, having a society that glorifies crime while making those who are responsible look like they are weak is the problem.

 

[faithful_servant]

That war's been going on for years. It's only got worse since the Bacon bro's were taken out of the picture.

???? I'm confused... Who are the Bacon bros???

 

[faithful_servant]

Fair enough, but your facts seem to me to show the violence associated with the war on drugs. We saw this during alcohol prohibition, and now we see it with drugs.


In my city the war on drugs fuels the primary financing of streetgangs. Prohibition causes criminality.

No, choosing to break the law causes crime... No one forced these people to break the law, they did it on their own. Do anti-drug laws create an opportunity?? Sure, but it still requires that someone CHOOSE to take advantage of that opportunity. Make drugs legal and the gangs will move into areas like extortion, protection rackets, influence peddling, etc. It's not the laws, it's the choice to break the laws.

 

[faithful_servant]

A rise in heroin use, an increase in drug gang activity, the police have cut back on arrests.....on top of the already existing extreme poverty without a lot of prospects for employment....what do you expect?

I expect people to leave that hole and find some place to live where this kind of thing isn't a problem. Look for places that need workers and move there. It's harder for some than others, but it can be done.

 

[faithful_servant]

I'm looking for correlation.

'More guns on the streets = more shootings', would seem worthy of examination, no?

I'm not jumping to conclusions (yet) in this short period of time, but having the public carry guns in Chicago was sold to the public as a way to lower crime and violence; I'd like to see if that correlation will meet its sales promises.


Well we have to act within the Constitution of course, and stop-and-frisk is in a gray area that has often been clarified by the courts.

But your points are valid.

Take a look at my post #8 in this thread, which I think has a lot to do with the rise, and is similar to what you pointed-out.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Sweden]

Extreme northern climate, alcoholism, access to firearms, and Inuit social & economic issues?

That might be a good start.

And the long winter 24hr solstice added to all that drinking, isolation, and cabin-fever, can't be good either!

The U.S. Native-American lands are affected similarly, but without the complete winter solstice and ultra-extreme winter climate.

I live at 60 degrees North (well 59.9 degs to be honest) so should I start getting worried? I mean I'm not allowed to 'conceal carry' anything much except a nail file.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Yes that's true, but the violence is brought forth over drug deals and drug turf! IOW, directly resulting from the War on Drugs.

When Chicago had alcohol prohibition, it gave rise to the largest and most murderous crime cartels the city and country had ever seen in the modern post industrial revolution era. But now, that's gone. Think of it: there's no one standing on corners selling half-pints or tall-boys today, while their heavily armed partners hiding in the gangway ready to pounce if needed. There's no money in it!

But the above scenario is carried-out today on countless streetcorners in Chicago, with guys selling rocks & mexican mud. Why? Because the WoD has made it profitable to do so! It's really that simple.

I know all about Chicago but this wave is different. We have no war on drugs, per ce, but a focus of "major crime" which often has drugs associated with it. I don't think any local forces has a "drug squad".

In this case, dating back a year or more two punk gangs squared off and managed to kill the leader of a rival gang. It was not the result of police pressure, but by the vacuum left by the dead leader. I do not know the current state, but the last I saw one leader's name appeared in the news as having been sentenced for manslaughter one.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Canadian Drive-by:
Driving up to the house of your biggest criminal competition and then driving away 2 miles over the speed limit while playing Milli Vanilli loud enough to hear outside the car.

And then apologize for the noise (of the gunfire not millie vanilli)

 

[Grand Mal]

???? I'm confused... Who are the Bacon bros???

Gang leaders in the Vancouver area. One's been killed, the other is in prison, but the gang war goes on. There's been a spate of shootings in metro Vancouver these past few years. Not often fatal- I guess Canadian gangsters are poor shots.

 

[eohrnberger]

To add:

I've been hearing anecdotal stories of some CDP laying low on active physical violent confrontations, including in foot-pursuit situations that may lead to violent situations that may escalate to the application of severe or deadly force.

The Reason? The feds are ripping through every nook and cranny of the department, the public is confronting them continuously & taping their every move and reaction, the civil rights leaders are demonstrating constantly and raising hell, the Mayor is under extreme pressure and looking for scapegoats in the department anywhere he can find them, and complaints & civil suits are flying like nobody's business! And the feds are now monitoring every complaint & suit!

So apparently, some of the coppers are coming to the conclusion they'd prefer to be safe in looking-out for their careers, rather than put themselves in risky situations; it's better to lay low and survive, than be aggressive and become a target for not just the criminal, but public inquiry as well.

It's a totally screwed-up situation! Yes, CDP absolutely brought this upon themselves through institutionalized and structural problems from above, but now the rank & file are getting whiplashed as a result!

Also, the feds are now doing ride-alongs, which I think is going to really open-up their eyes to the difficulties & realities of policing neighborhoods like Englewood or the funkier areas of the West Side. After a few ride-alongs in the more active neighborhoods, I suspect the feds will better appreciate their federal paycheck!

More proof that federal involvement is the sure way to fix things at the local level?

 

[eohrnberger]

You are absolutely correct. 515

Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory (Number of homicides)

Please note the jump last year in BC. There were over 22 drug gang related homicides where most of the dead were on visitor visas

Visitor Visas?

Either sneaking a gun into Canada is really easy, or it's really easy to get a gun in Canada, or there's a thriving illegal gun black market for visiting thugs.

(Did I miss any?)