MPs vote to decriminalise abortion for women in England and Wales

[Manc Skipper]

In this case it’s what it means

No it's not. The law still applies to anyone else assisting her to terminate the pregnancy, but the woman will not be prosecuted. There were several cases where women took OTC pills after 24 weeks because they had their dates wrong. Now they will be offered care and support.

 

[Gordy327]

Now they will be offered care and support.

As they should be, and not receive contempt or scorn because of their pregnancy status and choices.

 

[Lursa]

Not saying it would be a common thing. However your argument seems to be it will never happen so I refuse to think of the possibility.

Women dont abort healthy, viable fetuses for non-medical reasons...so if you dont even know if it happens...why are you concerned?

Can you document this in any significant way? It's a common pro-life mantra that's a) disproven and b) used for emotiona manipulation, and c) highly insulting to women to just "conjure up" the idea that some women must do this.

(I dont know if you are pro-life or not)

 

[Jason Warfield]

I was going to watch YouTube on my break but this thread was for more entertaining.

The problem though, is that we are seeing an uptick on this type of threads where someone like Real blank does the whole answering by not really answering, refusing to answer questions or thoughts but demanding responses to his all with a tone of unearned superiority.

The threads go nowhere and the OP or most virulent poster continues to acts like a teen who has just watched their first court drama and thinks they know everything now.

Because as we all know, for these folks, losing the battle, any battle over anything, means to them that they have lost the war.

 

[Real blank]

Women dont abort healthy, viable fetuses for non-medical reasons...so if you dont even know if it happens...why are you concerned?

Can you document this in any significant way? It's a common pro-life mantra that's a) disproven and b) used for emotiona manipulation, and c) highly insulting to women to just "conjure up" the idea that some women must do this.

(I dont know if you are pro-life or not)

Woman released from jail after successful appeal of sentence for aborting her baby at 8 months

Last month, Carla Foster, a 44-year-old woman, was sentenced to 28 months in jail at Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court after the UK’s largest abortion provider, the

righttolife.org.uk

Ultimately I am pro choice because it’s ultimately a necessity in many cases.

However morally I find it questionable. Call me what you will over that.

In no way would I say it’s a common thing however it concerns me.

 

[Bodi]

You believe in abortion at 8 months?

Who, other than a few psychos or women in severe depression, is aborting a baby at 8 months? It doesn't happen. It is bogus argument.


.

 

[Real blank]

Who, other than a few psychos or women in severe depression, is aborting a baby at 8 months? It doesn't happen. It is bogus argument.


.

Well so should it be legal or not ?

 

[Bodi]

Well so should it be legal or not ?

Of course it should be legal. A person has a right to their own bodily autonomy.



,

 

[Real blank]

Of course it should be legal. A person has a right to their own bodily autonomy.



,

I don’t even necessarily disagree I just think it’s morally wrong.

 

[Bodi]

I don’t even necessarily disagree I just think it’s morally wrong.

Morally wrong to abort a baby in the 8th month? That is totally wrong and disgusting. I am just saying that nobody apart from a few screwed up women are actually doing that. But they should have that right, nonetheless.


.

 

[Bodi]

If men dislike abortion then they should never have sex with a woman unless that woman is committed to them and is pro-life herself. Sorry guys, that means basically almost no sex... ever.


.

 

[Lursa]

Woman released from jail after successful appeal of sentence for aborting her baby at 8 months

Last month, Carla Foster, a 44-year-old woman, was sentenced to 28 months in jail at Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court after the UK’s largest abortion provider, the

righttolife.org.uk

Ultimately I am pro choice because it’s ultimately a necessity in many cases.

However morally I find it questionable. Call me what you will over that.

In no way would I say it’s a common thing however it concerns me.

So you are just running away from the argument? Without acknowledging any of it?

The link doesnt say why she aborted it, so it could have been for medical reasons...hers or the fetus's but she was nuts because that's more dangerous than giving birth...the fetus was very large and a woman's body naturally prepares itself for birth (for ex, the cervix dilates)...she's lucky she didnt die and the pain would have been excruciating. Why do you think doctors today cant advance or hurry labor on demand? She may have mental issues. But it's still an outlier...women dont do this.

 

[Lursa]

I don’t even necessarily disagree I just think it’s morally wrong.

There are many things that are legal that are, to many people, morally wrong...lying, cheating on your spouse, spanking your child, shooting your puppy, etc. Many believe that sex out of wedlock and divorce are morally wrong. Sometimes it comes down to the infringements on another person's liberty or rights.

 

[Gordy327]

I don’t even necessarily disagree I just think it’s morally wrong.

Then do not have an abortion. Problem solved. Everyone else can decide for themselves and their own morality on the matter.

Well so should it be legal or not ?

Yes, it should be. There is no rational or legal basis to make it illegal.

 

[Lursa]

If men dislike abortion then they should never have sex with a woman unless that woman is committed to them and is pro-life herself. Sorry guys, that means basically almost no sex... ever.

The modern world is risky for men who still believe that men are entitled to sex without consequences. Women are used to it, we've never been and still arent. Red states in the US are trying to make it even more dangerous for women, taking us backwards historically. So we also have to accept the risks of a pregnancy if we choose to have sex. Right?

If there's a pregnancy then there's no escape from consequences for women. There are only 4:

--have a baby​

--have a miscarriage​

--have an abortion​

--die during pregnancy/childbirth​

And we can die or suffer permanent health damage from the other 3 too (and it's NOT a choice). It sucks, it's not fair that women are the only ones that get pregnant.

 

[Gordy327]

The modern world is risky for men who still believe that men are entitled to sex without consequences. Women are used to it, we've never been and still arent. Red states in the US are trying to make it even more dangerous for women, taking us backwards historically. So we also have to accept the risks of a pregnancy if we choose to have sex. Right?

If there's a pregnancy then there's no escape from consequences for women. There are only 4:

--have a baby​

--have a miscarriage​

--have an abortion​

--die during pregnancy/childbirth​

And we can die or suffer permanent health damage from the other 3 too (and it's NOT a choice). It sucks, it's not fair that women are the only ones that get pregnant.

That's 1 reason why women should have any and all choices in the matters regarding their pregnancy.

 

[bythoughts]

It's important to read the article:

Antoniazzi highlighted a series of cases where women had been arrested for illegal abortion offences, such as Nicola Packer, who was taken from hospital to a police cell after delivering a stillborn baby at home after taking prescribed abortion medicine when she was around 26 weeks pregnant.
She told jurors during her trial, which came after more than four years of police investigation, that she did not realise she had been pregnant for more than 10 weeks.

I do believe late term fetuses are likely to have human consciousness and should be protected, but the involvement of a specially licensed physician should absolve the mother from this sort of prosecution. It is up to the doctor to make sure he's not killing a late term fetus. Now I'm not saying the doctor should necessarily be prosecuted - especially not when making these decisions under the hastily drawn-up procedures of the Covid outbreak - but if he hands out the pills then the mother shouldn't be at legal risk for taking them. I mean, based on what should she have hesitated? Even if she lied about having had a period (which is NOT medically impossible!), there is no way I can see you could plausibly prove that beyond reasonable doubt. Now, I'm not saying that if a woman had the pills in a medicine cabinet after someone else chickened out of an abortion, and she took them all on her own without medical consultation, that she should escape legal consequences if she kills a late-term fetus, and I don't know if this law does go that far (too far), but I know it was at least addressing a set of problems that we can see here.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I believe that's a decision best made between a woman and her doctor. There's no reason that @Real blank also needs to be in the room with them demanding that his opinion be factored in as well.

 

[Aristaeus]

I'm not playing your stupid game. If you want to pretend a woman would carry a pregnancy to 8 months and then decide to terminate it, well, that's your sick fantasy. I'm sure there's something in your history that gave you such a degenerated regard for women but I don't want to hear about it.

*Cough*

Well here's two woman who self terminated at 8 months.

Redirect Notice

unfurl="true"]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169.amp

 

[Aristaeus]

I'm very much pro choice, and self-terminating at 8 months is rare, but does happen occasionally.

There is more moral ambiguity when it comes to aborting at 8 months compared to 2 months.

 

[Lursa]

*Cough*

Well here's two woman who self terminated at 8 months.

Redirect Notice

unfurl="true"]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169.amp

And again...there were mental health issues. That's a 'medical reason' too. One that she should have sought help for but it was during lockdown.

"He said the defendant was "wracked by guilt" and had suffered depression and said she was a good mother to three children, one of whom has special needs" link​

Why not sooner? Cant say but not in her right mind. Desperate. Pregnancy can be an awful experience, physically and emotionally.

 

[Aristaeus]

And again...there were mental health issues. That's a 'medical reason' too. One that she should have sought help for but it was during lockdown.

"He said the defendant was "wracked by guilt" and had suffered depression and said she was a good mother to three children, one of whom has special needs" link​

Why not sooner? Cant say but not in her right mind. Desperate. Pregnancy can be an awful experience, physically and emotionally.

Obviously women suffering from mental health issues should be supported.

May I give you a hypothetical scenario?

A woman, not suffering from any mental health issues and who is 8 months pregnant with a healthy fetus, decides she doesn't want the baby (let's say she decides at the last minute she doesn't want the responsibility/loss of freedom). Should she be free to self abort without any consequences?

Also, do you think there's a moral difference in abortion at 8 months compared to 2 months in terms of sentience/viability? I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm pro choice, it's just I've never heard the pro choice side argue before that abortion at any stage of pregnancy is fine for any reason.

 

[Lursa]

Obviously women suffering from mental health issues should be supported.

May I give you a hypothetical scenario?

A woman, not suffering from any mental health issues and who is 8 months pregnant with a healthy fetus, decides she doesn't want the baby (let's say she decides at the last minute she doesn't want the responsibility/loss of freedom). Should she be free to self abort without any consequences?

Also, do you think there's a moral difference in abortion at 8 months compared to two months in terms of sentience/viability? I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm pro choice, it's just I've never heard the pro choice side argue before that abortion at any stage of pregnancy is fine for any reason.

These women that took pills that late were crazy because they're not meant to be used that late...the fetus is way too big. Abortions that late use a lethal dose of anesthetic and then they dismember the fetus. The body isnt physically ready, like for labor, the cervix doesnt dilate, for one example. At least one of these women ended up in the ER. It would have been incredibly painful and dangerous.

I dont know about other countries but here she could give it up for adoption. Here in the US she can get ~$10,000 - $30,000 for a healthy baby in a legal private adoption. Why would someone in their right mind take the risks and pain of that late abortion?

So yes, a woman should be able to get (with a medical professional that agrees to it) an abortion at any time she needs it. There's a serious desperation/mental issue if she tries it that late on her own. IMO it's still her need and her right. My personal feelings are not what matters here.

 

[Aristaeus]

These women that took pills that late were crazy because they're not meant to be used that late...the fetus is way too big. Abortions that late use a lethal dose of anesthetic and then they dismember the fetus. The body isnt physically ready, like for labor, the cervix doesnt dilate, for one example. At least one of these women ended up in the ER. It would have been incredibly painful and dangerous.

I dont know about other countries but here she could give it up for adoption. Here in the US she can get ~$10,000 - $30,000 for a healthy baby in a legal private adoption. Why would someone in their right mind take the risks and pain of that late abortion?

So yes, a woman should be able to get (with a medical professional that agrees to it) an abortion at any time she needs it. There's a serious desperation/mental issue if she tries it that late on her own. IMO it's still her need and her right. My personal feelings are not what matters here.

Thank you for your considered reply.

 

[Allan]

A woman, not suffering from any mental health issues and who is 8 months pregnant with a healthy fetus, decides she doesn't want the baby (let's say she decides at the last minute she doesn't want the responsibility/loss of freedom). Should she be free to self abort without any consequences?

How can you say that a woman who self aborts at 8 months doesn't suffer from a mental health problem?