• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Moscow concert hall terrorist attack: Shooting and explosion reported

Poor tiger. Using words he doesn’t know the meaning of.
But please tell me how asking you where you got your knowledge or experience that gives your assessment of military actions credibility is a surrender. And hate to tell you this but you just bit wanting to and out of embarrassment doesn’t masher it one.

Talking about my arguments crashing and burning right after you just proved my argument right without even realizing it is hilarious.

Poor braindrain. So panicked at realizing his pathetic excuse of a “argument” collapsed at the slightest examination.

It’s certainly embarsssing just how easy it is to trash your pathetic drivel, yes.

It’s hilarious watching you sputter and snivel at being forced to face reality, yes.
 
because the longer a battle goes on the more resources are expended in the process. You use ammunition, you use fuel, you lose soldiers, you lose vehicles, etc. An attempt to retreat after additional weeks or months of constant fighting is going to see your forces with less of everything,

I understand that completely; the part you don't seem to grasp is that you don't is that there is no requirement to adjust the plan. War is not a game where automatic functions occur in decision making.

It’s still a major fortified Ukrainian position that the Russians captured, after seriously repulsing the Ukrainian offensive that was being compared to D-Day.

Since the liberation of Kharkov Russias only major conquests have been Bahkmut and Avdiivka, which took over a year. Apologies if I don't see this as a sign of a decisive impending victory.

Given the fact that you can’t bring yourself to face the fact the town was heavily fortified that’s a meaningless accusation.

I have never dismissed the idea that Avdiivka was fortified, I merely pointed out it was not some fortress of solitude.

I dismiss the constant claims of Russia supposedly being utterly weak and incompetent, yes, especially the same people who try and claim that also turn around and start babbling about what a threat Russia supposedly is at the same time.

And in your defense, you offer painfully underwhelming analysis.

Iraqi forces were some of the most incompetent of the 20th century. They were lacking in initiative, skill at arms, leadership, discipline, and basic operational flexibility. They struggled mightily against an embargoed Iran then were Curbstomped by the Coalition in 1991. Iraqi forces would perform just as bad in 2003 and 2014 as they did in 1991 and 1980.

But in 1988 Iraq was able to drive the Iranians out of Iraq; not because the Iraqis had gotten good at war, but because they outnumbered the Iranians 5:1 in tanks and artillery and were pouring posion gas over Iranian lines. The fact that they drove Iran from Iraqi soil is not proof that Iraqi were suddenly experts in combined arms and mechanized maneuver warfare.

Russian forces likewise have not demonstrated excellence in combined arms or tactical execution. At both Bahkmut and Avdiivka, the Russian victory was achieves by throwing thousands of men into the meat grinder backed up by mass fires until finally the Ukrainians could take no more and were compelled to withdraw. The fact that the Russians are poor at executing complex mechanized maneuvers does not mean their artillery is not dangerous, and likewise, the fact that Russian artillery can do a lot of damage does not mean Russian mechanized forces are good. If you don't understand that, then you don't know much about this war.
 
I understand that completely; the part you don't seem to grasp is that you don't is that there is no requirement to adjust the plan. War is not a game where automatic functions occur in decision making.



Since the liberation of Kharkov Russias only major conquests have been Bahkmut and Avdiivka, which took over a year. Apologies if I don't see this as a sign of a decisive impending victory.



I have never dismissed the idea that Avdiivka was fortified, I merely pointed out it was not some fortress of solitude.



And in your defense, you offer painfully underwhelming analysis.

Iraqi forces were some of the most incompetent of the 20th century. They were lacking in initiative, skill at arms, leadership, discipline, and basic operational flexibility. They struggled mightily against an embargoed Iran then were Curbstomped by the Coalition in 1991. Iraqi forces would perform just as bad in 2003 and 2014 as they did in 1991 and 1980.

But in 1988 Iraq was able to drive the Iranians out of Iraq; not because the Iraqis had gotten good at war, but because they outnumbered the Iranians 5:1 in tanks and artillery and were pouring posion gas over Iranian lines. The fact that they drove Iran from Iraqi soil is not proof that Iraqi were suddenly experts in combined arms and mechanized maneuver warfare.

Russian forces likewise have not demonstrated excellence in combined arms or tactical execution. At both Bahkmut and Avdiivka, the Russian victory was achieves by throwing thousands of men into the meat grinder backed up by mass fires until finally the Ukrainians could take no more and were compelled to withdraw. The fact that the Russians are poor at executing complex mechanized maneuvers does not mean their artillery is not dangerous, and likewise, the fact that Russian artillery can do a lot of damage does not mean Russian mechanized forces are good. If you don't understand that, then you don't know much about this war.

Who said anything about “decisive victory”? If the Russians were actually as incompetent as is constantly claimed, they wouldn’t have been able to take either town, especially given the vast amounts of efforts in the Ukrainians expended in hopes of holding them.

As previously established, just about every source available has described it as being significantly fortified.

What’s underwhelming is the constant narrative of “Russia is incapable of fighting” when confronted with the actual events occurring on the battlefield. And to return to a previous point, bringing up “America didn’t lose as many in Iraq and Afghanistan” remains throughly meaningless, especially since A) the US was up against a far weaker enemy without a fraction of the resources that were poured into Ukraine and B) the Russians have continued to fight , and capture towns the Ukrainians poured vast amounts of resources into defending, at a point long past the US’ will to continue to fight would have broken.

The Iraqis demonstrated very clear skill in the use of chemical weapons during the Tawakal ala Allah operations, and the performance of the Iraqi military as a whole proved substantially better than it had been during the earlier phases of the war, so that’s clearly not entirely true.
 
They're in camouflage. Armies and terrorists use it.

They're in uniforms - a military or paramilitary group. Clearly trained.

Although a terrorist attacking a concert venue would want to camouflage in black tie I'd think.

Good point.

If Vlad were pulling another false flag, he'd have his dups wear Ukrainian uniforms so he could blame them. That the terrorists were wearing them in itself doesn't prove anything.

My concern at the moment is Israel was hit with a major terrorist attack, now Russia was hit with one - we are probably next on the list.
 
Who said anything about “decisive victory”? If the Russians were actually as incompetent as is constantly claimed, they wouldn’t have been able to take either town, especially given the vast amounts of efforts in the Ukrainians expended in hopes of holding them.

You can be a lackluster force and still capture territory. If you don't understand that I can't help you.

As previously established, just about every source available has described it as being significantly fortified.

Except the Ukrainian forces mentioning the limited fortifications.

And to return to a previous point, bringing up “America didn’t lose as many in Iraq and Afghanistan” remains throughly meaningless, especially since A) the US was up against a far weaker enemy without a fraction of the resources that were poured into Ukraine and B) the Russians have continued to fight , and capture towns the Ukrainians poured vast amounts of resources into defending,

American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan were also thousands of miles from home, smaller in number (ISAF struggled to surpass 125,000), with fewer tanks and artillery. We can do this all day.

at a point long past the US’ will to continue to fight would have broken.

This is something you just keep claiming with no real proof of it.

The Iraqis demonstrated very clear skill in the use of chemical weapons during the Tawakal ala Allah operations,

What are you basing that off of?

and the performance of the Iraqi military as a whole proved substantially better than it had been during the earlier phases of the war, so that’s clearly not entirely true.

No, it did not "as a whole" improve at all.

What changed was the Iraqi General staff came to fully appreciate just how utterly poor their troops were at conducting operations, and "fixed this" by scripting offensives down to the platoon level. There was no real improvement in the skill-at-arms of actual Iraqi formations.
 
Aww, your Russian disinformation not going as well as you thought?

lol

Russian disinformation? Have you been getting your information from Bigfoot again?

Standard Disclaimer: democrats spent from 1917 through 2014 as the biggest supporters of Russia outside of the evil empire itself - now suddenly we should believe that Americans (Republicans) are supporting Russia? Talk about a crazy conspiracy theory.
 
Again, the Ukrainians had been fortifying the town for a decade, as just about every available source confirms. Blind denial can’t change that fact.

Even the best fortifications can only take so much punishment before they collapse.
 
Avdiivka is quite literally the only major urban area the Russians have captured since Bahkmut, a year ago.

And even with that, it's still insignificant, seeing as Avdiivka was as completely demolished as Bakhmut was when they took it.

Not really much to brag about when you claim to have won a town of rubble.
 
No, I tend to avoid the MAGAsphere's "news" sites.

I've noticed - you seem to get your "information" from Young Turds and Raw Sewage. Or some equally sleazy leftist hate site.
 
Of cause it would be better . There is a number of countries which are very loosely allied with Russia and simply don't care who cross their border. Kazakhstan , Armenia , they all can be used as safe heaven
How can they be used as a safe haven for someone who is wanted in Russia if those countries are allied with Russia?
 
I've noticed - you seem to get your "information" from Young Turds and Raw Sewage. Or some equally sleazy leftist hate site.
Nope, but I know that you need to believe that's true.
 
I've noticed - you seem to get your "information" from Young Turds and Raw Sewage. Or some equally sleazy leftist hate site.
Hey you got any photos of those terrorists wearing Ukrainian uniforms yet?
 
How can they be used as a safe haven for someone who is wanted in Russia if those countries are allied with Russia?
As I have already said they are not tightly allied. Armenia is severing ties right now.
 
As I have already said they are not tightly allied. Armenia is severing ties right now.
You are still less likely to be extradited from Ukraine than you are from Armenia. Ukraine is the logical place to flee if you are wanted for terrorism in Russia.
 
You are still less likely to be extradited from Ukraine than you are from Armenia. Ukraine is the logical place to flee if you are wanted for terrorism in Russia.
Ukraine ? Why not Finland? A NATO member? A member of the block which is ultimately responsible for the attack on Moscow music hall.
 
Ukraine ? Why not Finland? A NATO member? A member of the block which is ultimately responsible for the attack on Moscow music hall.
Finland is not at war with Russia, and would extradite terrorists. Ukraine is actively at war with Russia. They are the only country you could be sure would not extradite you. That doesn't mean that Ukraine was behind the terrorist attack, only that it is actively at war with Russia.

And there is one party that is responsible for the attack on the Moscow music: ISIS.
 
Finland is not at war with Russia, and would extradite terrorists. Ukraine is actively at war with Russia. They are the only country you could be sure would not extradite you. That doesn't mean that Ukraine was behind the terrorist attack, only that it is actively at war with Russia.

And there is one party that is responsible for the attack on the Moscow music: ISIS.
Yes you can repeat it thousand of times. No one gonna believe your clumsy western lies. You did it. You CIA service paid for the blood in Crocus City Hall. We all know it.
 
Yes you can repeat it thousand of times. No one gonna believe your clumsy western lies. You did it. You CIA service paid for the blood in Crocus City Hall. We all know it.
How do you know this?
 
Yes you can repeat it thousand of times. No one gonna believe your clumsy western lies. You did it. You CIA service paid for the blood in Crocus City Hall. We all know it.
🤣
 
because it's the West who benefits most from this bloody attack. The West and Ukraine. All this ISIS story is just a cover for your dark deeds.
That alone is all the proof you need?
 
Back
Top Bottom