Morris: Obama doesn’t have a clue

[allsogreat]

Not since some point in the GWBush admin you mean... like the vast majority of todays "Independents".

And you know this ... How?

No, the real problem is the control of our government by Special Interest groups; namely, publically traded corporations. It's SIGs that dictate what laws are enacted and how our tax dollars are spent.

I agree thats one (just one) of the root causes that leads to deficit spending, but in the long run it's still deficit spending (mostly to get votes) that has left us where we're at.

Why do cons trot out Fanny and Freddy first instead of AIG and the investment houses like Goldman and the mortgage companies like Countrywide?

You tell me...and what difference does it make?......or are you just nit-picking? Sure looks like it. I consider fannie, Fredie, AIG, Goldman, mortgage companies and banks in general as all a part of the same industry

Had you earned a MEcon or PHD in economics you'd probably agree with the majority of the erudite.

And again, you know this ...how?

It's not being left unattended.

I guess your right here....it keeps growing under dumacrat leadership.....doesn't it wouldn't be the same under republicans.....

Not for lack of opportunity, I mean it was debated for more than a year.

Agree....certainly not for lack of opportunity.

You mean the "repugnicans" don't you? After all, you did say you hated both parties... :doh
I guess in all of your news watching and researching you never ran across numbers like; 788 republican amendments were thrown at the Bill (most were just to stall the process) and 161 of them were adopted.

Didn't say I hated both parties. and show me the numbers...not those you grasp out of the air.

I'm afraid your targeting is a bit off.

Show me!

Answering your post was mostly a waste of time as you post had no value....but I did it anyway....as Boo Radley said "be productive."

 

[allsogreat]

All of them have been heavily into deficit spending. Heck Reagan was a fan of deficit spending. What I find distrubing is each side only dislikes it when the other side is doing it. When Bush was doing is tax cut and spend, too few conservatives were up in arms. If you're opposed to deficit spending, be so regardless of who is in power.

You did good...I agree with that . Especially that in bold. (Darn I hate agreeing with liberals)

Maybe we need to start a thread "What I dislike most about Congress"....let the left, right and in between air the their Congressional Grievances. Then send the whole damn list to our respective Congressman.....

 

[Boo Radley]

You did good...I agree with that . Especially that in bold. (Darn I hate agreeing with liberals)

Maybe we need to start a thread "What I dislike most about Congress"....let the left, right and in between air the their Congressional Grievances. Then send the whole damn list to our respective Congressman.....

I don't know about this agreeing stuff. How will I go on?

 

[allsogreat]

Here's why I doubt your opening claim:

republican, or a dumacrat. That shows a real preference.

And all of then have done deficit spending. This is why I suggest it would be no different on this issue regardless of party. Real damning and partisan stuff I know. I would have done better to say repugs or something like that to show my neutrality. And yes, both parties hold some blame, and I suggest nothing different than that. You actually seem to be agreeing with me with some weird misplaced outrage I don't quite follow.

But I will say this about health care, we can't afford not to do something. Health care has been a drain on us without reform. True, more could have been done and still can be done to reduce the burden, but it has been mostly the opposition that has made this less likely. Them and weak democrats. The system as it was simply was too expensive and cost us far too much for too little. I personally hope we haven't seen the last word on health care reform, but not taking the current step would not have made anything better. Health care would still be a drain on us, contributing to the deficit.

However, this is about partisan hyperbole about the other side not having a clue. You and I both seem to agree both parties are to blame, even if you do use words like dumacrat. Perhaps, on this subject (not health care), you can articulate exactly what you disagree with me on?

Again, I think I agree with most of your reply....health care needs to be fixed...but not with something we can't afford....yes I use the word dumacrat... probably shows partiality...I just haven't found a word yet to describes republicans...I'm working on it...I generally just use "elected criminals" to describe all of congress.....H

 

[allsogreat]

I don't know about this agreeing stuff. How will I go on?

That two posts in this thread that we kind of agree on...one of us will have to say something rash to get the other one started..........

 

[jallman]

Funny, when you listen to intelligent people talk about Obama's economic policy they make it sound like he does in fact have a clue. The first clue being that this mess was created through 8 years of conservative rule, the idea that it could be fixed or even handed off in 18 months proves, once again, that Dick Morris is a boob.

Dick Morris and his cadre of numskull commentators at Fox E-News have been wrong on so many things, so many times now that I'm surprised any of you cons would have the nerve to quote anything they say. :shrug:

Oh here we go with the typical "Bush, Bush, Bush" excuses. This is Obama's problem now and he hasn't been handling it well at all.

That's ok though...he won't get to run against Bush a second time. No one is going to buy it like they did in 08.

 

[BWG]

The first clue being that this mess was created through 8 years of conservative rule...

Keep singing it, no one's buying it. Obama has taken a bad situation and multiplied it ten-fold. He owns this now, sorry.

OH??

I know cons have recently become enamored by the polls, especially ones by their NewBestFriend Rasmussen.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 49% of Adults say President George W. Bush and the Republicans are more responsible for the size of the current federal budget deficit.

Most U.S. voters continue to believe that the nation’s current economic problems are due to the recession that began under the Bush administration rather than the policies Obama has put in place since taking office.


49% Say Bush Chiefly To Blame for Big Deficit, 43% Blame Obama - Rasmussen Reports

 

[Boo Radley]

It is Obama's problem now. True. But that doesn't excuse Bush's role or mean he didn't play a role. Nor is congress excused, past or present. This has been a long term problem and I wouldn't expect any quick fixes, especially if we the people still want our cake and not have to pay for it.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

Seriously, I don't know about you folks, but it sure is funny how NLJ manages to quote posters and then make comments that don't address the quotes. Preferring instead to go off on harangues and diatribes that again, don't address what was said to him or quoted by him. The strawman game is strong with this one...........................

Seriously, I don't know about you folks, but it sure is funny that you would say this since my reply was absolutely about the post I quoted. :Shrug: Your Ad hominem is more curious.

 

[jambalaya]

Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People?? :rofl

I had no such delusions. I didn't vote for Obama.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

And you know this ... How?

It's my ability to take the things you say and compare them to the same things other recent converts to the Independent Party. Don't be angry just because you got pegged.

I agree thats one (just one) of the root causes that leads to deficit spending, but in the long run it's still deficit spending (mostly to get votes) that has left us where we're at.

I believe it is the main cause and it overshadows any others by leaps and bounds.

You tell me...and what difference does it make?......or are you just nit-picking? Sure looks like it. I consider fannie, Fredie, AIG, Goldman, mortgage companies and banks in general as all a part of the same industry

You're the one who chose to go with the standard republican talking point, so you tell us.
The fact that you consider those different industries as being the same industry explains quite a bit.

And again, you know this ...how?

Because it would make you a fool to be so educated and still come to the conclusions of the ignorant.

I guess your right here....it keeps growing under dumacrat leadership.....doesn't it wouldn't be the same under republicans.....

English please.

Didn't say I hated both parties. and show me the numbers...not those you grasp out of the air.

Yes you did say that, I don't think anyone is believing you.
So then you concede that you've been woefully unaware of the facts and have therefore been spreading lies? Good for you, once you start admitting the truth you'll find you don't need those tired, aggressive and out dated conservative positions to prop up your ego.

Slate examines the GOP amendments to a Senate health care bill. - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine

Show me!

I did, in this and the last post.

Answering your post was mostly a waste of time as you post had no value....but I did it anyway....as Boo Radley said "be productive."

Ad hominem noted.

 

[jallman]

It's my ability to take the things you say and compare them to the same things other recent converts to the Independent Party. Don't be angry just because you got pegged.


I believe it is the main cause and it overshadows any others by leaps and bounds.


You're the one who chose to go with the standard republican talking point, so you tell us.
The fact that you consider those different industries as being the same industry explains quite a bit.


Because it would make you a fool to be so educated and still come to the conclusions of the ignorant.


English please.


Yes you did say that, I don't think anyone is believing you.
So then you concede that you've been woefully unaware of the facts and have therefore been spreading lies? Good for you, once you start admitting the truth you'll find you don't need those tired, aggressive and out dated conservative positions to prop up your ego.

Slate examines the GOP amendments to a Senate health care bill. - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine


I did, in this and the last post.


Ad hominem noted.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[cpwill]

No problem. Do you think republicans would not have bailed out the auto industry, or Walstreet, or spent money on a stimulus? These were concerete actions taken. What actions do you think shouldn't have bene taken and what actions would you take?

um. President Bush (R) was the one who first bailed out the Auto Industry; bailed out Wall Street (TARP), and passed the first "stimulus" package back in early 2008. you may recall - we were on that other site then and I said it would only make matters worse and those of a more keyensian bent assured me it was necessary to save us from recession?

 

[cpwill]

It is Obama's problem now. True. But that doesn't excuse Bush's role or mean he didn't play a role. Nor is congress excused, past or present. This has been a long term problem and I wouldn't expect any quick fixes, especially if we the people still want our cake and not have to pay for it.

on THAT we are agreed.

 

[Sir Loin]

Seriously, I don't know about you folks, but it sure is funny that you would say this since my reply was absolutely about the post I quoted. :Shrug: Your Ad hominem is more curious.

Well let us take a look at what I was speaking about.

Originally Posted by jambalaya
One thing for sure is that Obama was way over sold. He is long on rhetoric and short on leadership. He has greatly disappointed his own base by proving himself little more than a typical politician. Being President is hard and he is not dong a good job on any front that I can see. We just cannot say that it wouldn't be any better or worse had someone else been President. So that doesn't excuse anything Obama has done. I wouldn't call him without a clue but I would say he is overwhelmed.

Your reply which in some alternate reality is supposed to be "absolutely" about the post you quoted, which is above.....................

Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People??

That of course is not what jambalaya said, and we all understand why rather than address what he did say, you had to ignore it and spin like a top with a few sprinkles of "corporatocracy" rhetoric thrown in. Also, you probably should learn what Ad hominem means before you start tossing it around every other post.:roll:

 

[allsogreat]

It's my ability to take the things you say and compare them to the same things other recent converts to the Independent Party. Don't be angry just because you got pegged.


I believe it is the main cause and it overshadows any others by leaps and bounds.


You're the one who chose to go with the standard republican talking point, so you tell us.
The fact that you consider those different industries as being the same industry explains quite a bit.


Because it would make you a fool to be so educated and still come to the conclusions of the ignorant.


English please.


Yes you did say that, I don't think anyone is believing you.
So then you concede that you've been woefully unaware of the facts and have therefore been spreading lies? Good for you, once you start admitting the truth you'll find you don't need those tired, aggressive and out dated conservative positions to prop up your ego.

Slate examines the GOP amendments to a Senate health care bill. - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine


I did, in this and the last post.


Ad hominem noted.

Let's see. Where shall I start; You'd be wrong, wrong again, none, snide-no value, your right...that was weird english ( meant "would have"), did not (thanks for the article), not even close, ditto,

 

[Boo Radley]

um. President Bush (R) was the one who first bailed out the Auto Industry; bailed out Wall Street (TARP), and passed the first "stimulus" package back in early 2008. you may recall - we were on that other site then and I said it would only make matters worse and those of a more keyensian bent assured me it was necessary to save us from recession?

Any there are a number who think that and what Obama did kept it from being worse than it would have been. But my point was that both parties were going to do this. And both would be criticised for doing too much and not doing enough regardless of what they did. But had they not did any of the bailouts, as bad as the criticism is now, it would have been worse for them. We're a real tough audience.

 

[Boo Radley]

on THAT we are agreed.

Good to see we can still agree on something.

 

[jallman]

Let's see. Where shall I start; You'd be wrong, wrong again, none, snide-no value, your right...that was weird english ( meant "would have"), did not (thanks for the article), not even close, ditto,

I admit...I laughed.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

Your reply which in some alternate reality is supposed to be "absolutely" about the post you quoted...

OK, since you seem determined to disparage me, let's look again.

Jambalaya said: One thing for sure is that Obama was way over sold.

This is a statement. Obviously he believes this to be true. My response "Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People??"

He is long on rhetoric and short on leadership.

This is a statement. Obviously he believes it. My response "Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People??"

He has greatly disappointed his own base by proving himself little more than a typical politician.

So now he confirms that his belief in the first two quotes above has disappointed him as well as Obama's Base because he obviously believes that Obama has proven "himself little more than a typical politician."
My response: "Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People?? "

Being President is hard and he is not dong a good job on any front that I can see.

He makes himself the subject here and admits that he can't see the President doing a good job. He could just be stating what he perceives as the obvious.
My response: "Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People?? "

We just cannot say that it wouldn't be any better or worse had someone else been President. So that doesn't excuse anything Obama has done. I wouldn't call him without a clue but I would say he is overwhelmed.

My response: "Seriously? You actually thought a single politician would be able to take control of and strip the power from the most powerful corporatocracy in history and return that power to the People?? "

That of course is not what jambalaya said, and we all understand why rather than address what he did say, you had to ignore it and spin like a top with a few sprinkles of "corporatocracy" rhetoric thrown in. Also, you probably should learn what Ad hominem means before you start tossing it around every other post.:roll:

Maybe you should learn what "strawman" means before you start tossing it around every other post.:roll:

 

[VanceMack]

Of course we wont know what a republican or libertarian or even another democrat would have done different. Of course...you COULD examine Clinton's FEMA response to Floyd (plus 30 days) to Bush's response to Katrina (same day in Mississippi, within 3 days in NOLA) but what that will REALLY point to is the blatant hypocrisy in leftist posters...

So...what COULD have been done different...

Well...he could tell his leftist leaders to knock off the blaming bull**** and to accept personal responsibility. He could insist that this transcend politics and even business and all that mattered is stopping the leak. Instead of spending the first 6 weeks doing ****-all other than sending out Gibbs and Napolitano and other dem leaders to blame BP over and over and over...could have started these curative efforts in week ONE, not week SIX...cold have stopped the idiotic BP bashing and insisted in partnering all efforts to stop the leak and cleaning up the spill...could have acknowledged that BP would of course be held fully fiscally responsible, but right now ALL that mattered was stopping the leak and cleaning up the spill...

you know...responsibility...leadership...something the democrats have COMPLETELY refused to accept even though THEY have been in control of the house and senate since 2006...

Thats just a beginning...

 

[Boo Radley]

Of course we wont know what a republican or libertarian or even another democrat would have done different. Of course...you COULD examine Clinton's FEMA response to Floyd (plus 30 days) to Bush's response to Katrina (same day in Mississippi, within 3 days in NOLA) but what that will REALLY point to is the blatant hypocrisy in leftist posters...

So...what COULD have been done different...

Well...he could tell his leftist leaders to knock off the blaming bull**** and to accept personal responsibility. He could insist that this transcend politics and even business and all that mattered is stopping the leak. Instead of spending the first 6 weeks doing ****-all other than sending out Gibbs and Napolitano and other dem leaders to blame BP over and over and over...could have started these curative efforts in week ONE, not week SIX...cold have stopped the idiotic BP bashing and insisted in partnering all efforts to stop the leak and cleaning up the spill...could have acknowledged that BP would of course be held fully fiscally responsible, but right now ALL that mattered was stopping the leak and cleaning up the spill...

you know...responsibility...leadership...something the democrats have COMPLETELY refused to accept even though THEY have been in control of the house and senate since 2006...

Thats just a beginning...

Nonsense. You comapre apples to oranges (even though Clinton was heavily criticized). And I know some don't want to take responsibility. Both sides suffer from this. And this includes Bush and republicans. And yes, Obama and democrats. But let's not throw a false comparison in there to muddy the water. After Katrina we saw utter incompetence, worse than in Flordia. It wasn't just response time, but leaving people stranded and suffering, while they diddered around trying to figure out who shold do what. People suffer wiht Floyd, but not like NO.

 

[VanceMack]

Nonsense. You comapre apples to oranges (even though Clinton was heavily criticized). And I know some don't want to take responsibility. Both sides suffer from this. And this includes Bush and republicans. And yes, Obama and democrats. But let's not throw a false comparison in there to muddy the water. After Katrina we saw utter incompetence, worse than in Flordia. It wasn't just response time, but leaving people stranded and suffering, while they diddered around trying to figure out who shold do what. People suffer wiht Floyd, but not like NO.

Boo...you and others like you might have some credibility...maybe...if just once you said..."yep...dude ****ed up..."

 

[NoJingoLingo]

Boo...you and others like you might have some credibility...maybe...if just once you said..."yep...dude ****ed up..."

Who Clinton? OK, Yep...dude ****ed up...
Who Bush? OK, Yep...dude ****ed up...
Who Obama? OK, Yep...dude ****ed up...

Now let's see you put those ****ups on a scale of 1-10...

 

[zimmer]

Nonsense. You comapre apples to oranges (even though Clinton was heavily criticized). And I know some don't want to take responsibility. Both sides suffer from this. And this includes Bush and republicans. And yes, Obama and democrats. But let's not throw a false comparison in there to muddy the water. After Katrina we saw utter incompetence, worse than in Flordia. It wasn't just response time, but leaving people stranded and suffering, while they diddered around trying to figure out who shold do what. People suffer wiht Floyd, but not like NO.

Katrina was a hell hole, but the folks there should have left either on their own or with the assisatance of the state.
It was a State and local matter to clear out the areas. Read The Stafford Act.

After the hurricane ripped through and the levees busted, and people did not evacuate, getting into that area was next to impossible.
No it wasn't good post hurricane, but the deaths and suffering are on the State and mayor's hands, not Bush.
Those people should never have been left to the mercy of the hurricane.

The NOAA warned the levees might break... yet we only hear Bush being blamed.
It wasn't his ball of wax... what I do not understand is why the Governor and Mayor of NO did not heed the warning?

This BP spill is in federal waters and is a federal issue first and foremost.
This is Obama's. Obama's lethargy makes Bush look like Speedy Gonzalez on a bag of speed.

Katrina was Nagin's and Blanco's responsibility prior to landfall. They left residents to the mercy of Mother Nature at her worst.

BP's Horizon is Obama's.
.