• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

More profitable than Exxon?

sbrettt

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,724
Reaction score
783
Location
Prospect park, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
First of all, this is ridiculous. Secondly, I have an idea. I was thinking the government could take that $51 bill in profit and use to pay off student loan debt starting with people closest to paying off their loans, and then moving backwards from there. What do you guys think? Alternative ideas are welcome and invited.


Government student loan program more profitable than Exxon Mobil
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
First of all, this is ridiculous. Secondly, I have an idea. I was thinking the government could take that $51 bill in profit and use to pay off student loan debt starting with people closest to paying off their loans, and then moving backwards from there. What do you guys think? Alternative ideas are welcome and invited.


Government student loan program more profitable than Exxon Mobil
Why? Shouldn't people be required to fulfill the obligations that they agreed to? And should we (the tax payer) benefit in the form of lower taxes from any profitable agency that the guberment has? Maybe we should just run the student loan program as if it were a non-profit, and lower interest rates, as to make it easier for student borrowers to repay their loans.

And if the guberment is making money from the student loan program, and if virtually everyone eventually pays their student loans, is there really any "crises" or issue with the program?

I've read lots of stories about new college grads being $100k in debt, but not in actual government student loan debt. Usually that total debt includes a new car, a bunch of credit cards, and other debt obligations that the student took on - possibly a loan from a private lender, such as a relative, which the student took the money and then pissed it away on something stupid. The $100,000 in guberment issued or guaranteed student loan for a BA degree is a myth. It's actually impossible to borrow that type of money for a bachelors degree as we have caps on the amount that a student can borrow through a guberment program. A bank loan which is spent on an expensive car, is not in any way a student loan, even if the borrower happened to be a student at the time. And what type of moron bank makes loans like that to someone who has little if any income? Heck, I've held the same job for 25 years, lived in the same place for well over 25 years, have a 6 figure income, and I can't get an unsecured loan for $100k.

My college student son will likely owe about $88,000 total in student loans if he completes the educational track that he currently has planned (he will finish his bachelors this year, after just 3 years and $18,000 in student loan debt, and enroll in a MBA/JD combined program starting next August, adding another $70k in student loan debt. Now granted that is getting mighty close to that $100k mark, but thats for a bachelors, a masters, and a doctorate all combined. His total student loan debt will be more or less equivilent to his first two years of entry level after tax pay. Thats not really that bad of a deal.
 
Last edited:

specklebang

Discount Philosopher
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
11,524
Reaction score
6,769
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
First of all, this is ridiculous. Secondly, I have an idea. I was thinking the government could take that $51 bill in profit and use to pay off student loan debt starting with people closest to paying off their loans, and then moving backwards from there. What do you guys think? Alternative ideas are welcome and invited.

Government student loan program more profitable than Exxon Mobil
Not that I'm against student loans or lowering the interest rate but the claim itself is absurd.

From the OP article "We're already in a $1 trillion student debt hole" meaning that there is a trillion dollars out there in loans that might not be collectible so the claim of the income is purely bull****. Now, if they can actually collect that missing trillion, then they can say the made a "profit".
 

sbrettt

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,724
Reaction score
783
Location
Prospect park, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Why? Shouldn't people be required to fulfill the obligations that they agreed to? And should we (the tax payer) benefit in the form of lower taxes from any profitable agency that the guberment has? Maybe we should just run the student loan program as if it were a non-profit, and lower interest rates, as to make it easier for student borrowers to repay their loans.

And if the guberment is making money from the student loan program, and if virtually everyone eventually pays their student loans, is there really any "crises" or issue with the program?

The $100,000 in guberment issued or guaranteed student loan for a BA degree is a myth. It's actually impossible to borrow that type of money for a bachelors degree as we have caps on the amount that a student can borrow through a guberment program. My college student son will likely owe about $88,000 in student loans if he completes the educational track that he currently has planned (he will finish his bachelors this year, after just 3 years and $18,000 in student loan debt, and enroll in a MBA/JD combined program starting next August, adding another $70k in student loan debt. Now granted that is getting mighty close to that $100k mark, but thats for a bachelors, a masters, and a doctorate all combined. His total student loan debt will be more or less equivilent to his first two years of entry level after tax pay after finishing. Thats not really that bad of a deal.
I like this idea.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
First of all, this is ridiculous. Secondly, I have an idea. I was thinking the government could take that $51 bill in profit and use to pay off student loan debt starting with people closest to paying off their loans, and then moving backwards from there. What do you guys think? Alternative ideas are welcome and invited.


Government student loan program more profitable than Exxon Mobil
Just a couple things:

That article is a bit dated. It was based upon the doubling of interest rates which Congress has since addressed.

Second, your idea is backwards if you want to have the greatest economic impact--it would be better spent paying down principle on those who are just starting repayment as opposed to those finishing up repayment. It would have greater economic impact over the course of the borrower's payback period, similar to what happens if you pay just one extra house payment a month and have it applied all to principle.
 

sbrettt

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,724
Reaction score
783
Location
Prospect park, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Just a couple things:

That article is a bit dated. It was based upon the doubling of interest rates which Congress has since addressed.

Second, your idea is backwards if you want to have the greatest economic impact--it would be better spent paying down principle on those who are just starting repayment as opposed to those finishing up repayment. It would have greater economic impact over the course of the borrower's payback period, similar to what happens if you pay just one extra house payment a month and have it applied all to principle.
Sounds good to me.
 

sbrettt

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,724
Reaction score
783
Location
Prospect park, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Not that I'm against student loans or lowering the interest rate but the claim itself is absurd.

From the OP article "We're already in a $1 trillion student debt hole" meaning that there is a trillion dollars out there in loans that might not be collectible so the claim of the income is purely bull****. Now, if they can actually collect that missing trillion, then they can say the made a "profit".
Dam* you specklebang and your clever insight!
 

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
As long as college students can borrow money for college, the cost won't seem real to them. They can, after all (so they think) easily pay back the loans when they graduate and get a real job. The problem is, those real jobs may not exist, but that's another issue.
\
As long as the money doesn't seem real, is too easy to come by, there will be no incentive to lower the cost of college, and students will continue to graduate with huge debts to pay. $100 grand for a BA is absurd. It doesn't have to cost that much.

When I graduated in '64, loans were difficult to get and most of us paid our way as we went along. I had no money on graduation, but no debt either. That was the norm.

Graduating with a four year degree in four years was the norm, too.
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
As long as college students can borrow money for college, the cost won't seem real to them. They can, after all (so they think) easily pay back the loans when they graduate and get a real job. The problem is, those real jobs may not exist, but that's another issue.
\
As long as the money doesn't seem real, is too easy to come by, there will be no incentive to lower the cost of college, and students will continue to graduate with huge debts to pay. $100 grand for a BA is absurd. It doesn't have to cost that much.

When I graduated in '64, loans were difficult to get and most of us paid our way as we went along. I had no money on graduation, but no debt either. That was the norm.

Graduating with a four year degree in four years was the norm, too.
How many people that you personally know have $100k in debt for just a bachelors degree? Thats a myth, and an absurd one at that.

The max in federal student loans for a bachelors is something around $28k. The $100k in federal student loan debt bachelors degree is a figment of someone's imagination. My kid, who has maxed out his federal loans each year, will graduate with just $18k in debt before grad school. Thats about the same cost as his car, and his payments will actually be lower than a typical car payment as the i-rate is lower, and it's amortized for a lot longer than normal car loans (I took 25 years to pay back my student loans).

I could write an article about the tshirt debt crises, claiming that people are going tens of thousands of dollars in debt to purchase a tshirt, and I'm sure that there would be lots of outrage over such "tshirt debt". Of course tshirts don't actually cost tens of thousands of dollars, nor will any lenders loan tens of thousands of dollars for someone to purchase just a tshirt, but reality is often not the goal of magazine articles or bloggers. Reality doesn't draw readers, outrageous claims do.
 

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How many people that you personally know have $100k in debt for just a bachelors degree? Thats a myth, and an absurd one at that.

The max in federal student loans for a bachelors is something around $28k. The $100k in federal student loan debt bachelors degree is a figment of someone's imagination. My kid, who has maxed out his federal loans each year, will graduate with just $18k in debt before grad school. Thats about the same cost as his car, and his payments will actually be lower than a typical car payment as the i-rate is lower, and it's amortized for a lot longer than normal car loans (I took 25 years to pay back my student loans).

I could write an article about the tshirt debt crises, claiming that people are going tens of thousands of dollars in debt to purchase a tshirt, and I'm sure that there would be lots of outrage over such "tshirt debt". Of course tshirts don't actually cost tens of thousands of dollars, nor will any lenders loan tens of thousands of dollars for someone to purchase just a tshirt, but reality is often not the goal of magazine articles or bloggers. Reality doesn't draw readers, outrageous claims do.
That does sound a lot better than a hundred grand, but didn't imagep say his son will owe $88 grand?

I'm really not sure just what the average might be today, but I do know my son (age 44 now) is still paying. I earned a MA back in '73, and still had no debt, just paid as I went along. It was a lot cheaper back then.
 

FederalRepublic

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
2,942
Reaction score
711
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
How many people that you personally know have $100k in debt for just a bachelors degree? Thats a myth, and an absurd one at that.

The max in federal student loans for a bachelors is something around $28k. The $100k in federal student loan debt bachelors degree is a figment of someone's imagination. My kid, who has maxed out his federal loans each year, will graduate with just $18k in debt before grad school. Thats about the same cost as his car, and his payments will actually be lower than a typical car payment as the i-rate is lower, and it's amortized for a lot longer than normal car loans (I took 25 years to pay back my student loans).

I could write an article about the tshirt debt crises, claiming that people are going tens of thousands of dollars in debt to purchase a tshirt, and I'm sure that there would be lots of outrage over such "tshirt debt". Of course tshirts don't actually cost tens of thousands of dollars, nor will any lenders loan tens of thousands of dollars for someone to purchase just a tshirt, but reality is often not the goal of magazine articles or bloggers. Reality doesn't draw readers, outrageous claims do.
I know a couple (and I do mean couple, as in married), but their $100k+ in student loans was combined. Also, you're wrong about the limit. It's $57,500 for undergraduates and $138,500 for graduate students. Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans | Federal Student Aid
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That does sound a lot better than a hundred grand, but didn't imagep say his son will owe $88 grand?

I'm really not sure just what the average might be today, but I do know my son (age 44 now) is still paying. I earned a MA back in '73, and still had no debt, just paid as I went along. It was a lot cheaper back then.
You think that $88k is too much for a job that will likely pay at least double (or more) than the median wage? Again, thats for a bachelors, masters, and doctorate - which he should be able to complete all three in 6.5 years because of the community college classes he took during the summer (paid for by his own summer job), classes that he was able to exempt out of with testing, and doing the masters/doctorate as a joint program with "double dipped classes".

I paid off my student loans the same month I turned 47. the only time that the payments were a real hardship was the first couple of years after I started my business, when I litterally survived off of bread and Raman noodles. I could have paid the debt in full just a few years after that, but I didn't because the i-rate was lower than any other debt that I had, so paying it off early didn't make financial sense to me.
 
Last edited:

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You think that $88k is too much for a job that will likely pay at least double (or more) than the median wage? Again, thats for a bachelors, masters, and doctorate - which he should be able to complete all three in 6.5 years because of the community college classes he took during the summer (paid for by his own summer job), classes that he was able to exempt out of with testing, and doing the masters/doctorate as a joint program with "double dipped classes".

I paid off my student loans the same month I turned 47. the only time that the payments were a real hardship was the first couple of years after I started my business, when I litterally survived off of bread and Raman noodles. I could have paid the debt in full just a few years after that, but I didn't because the i-rate was lower than any other debt that I had, so paying it off early didn't make financial sense to me.
It might be worth the money if the graduate really did get a job making double the median. If the major is something that is in demand currently, he just might. Most grads, however, don't, not any more.

Just what is the median wage, anyway?

Americans' wages are falling, perhaps a reason why pessimism about their personal finances is now the lowest it's been in a decade.

The annual median wage fell in 2010 for the second year in a row to $26,364, a 1.2 percent drop from 2009, and the lowest level since 1999, according to David Cay Johnston at Reuters.
Double that would be nearly $54 grand.
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
69,704
Reaction score
51,814
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Putting any financial obstacle in between the student and his or her education is a mistake. Our national intellectual resources are even more vital than our energy resources.
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I know a couple (and I do mean couple, as in married), but their $100k+ in student loans was combined. Also, you're wrong about the limit. It's $57,500 for undergraduates and $138,500 for graduate students. Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans | Federal Student Aid
OK, I looked at your source, you are correct for "independent" students, but I am correct for most traditional college age students who are receiving some support from their parents.
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It might be worth the money if the graduate really did get a job making double the median. If the major is something that is in demand currently, he just might. Most grads, however, don't, not any more.

Just what is the median wage, anyway?



Double that would be nearly $54 grand.
Wow, I wasn't aware that the median wage was that low now. I thought it was closer to $40k (for an average including all educational levels).

Within two years of finishing college I was making a tad over $30k, with just a bachelors, and probably below average grades in college - that was over 25 years ago. Adjusted for inflation that would be something approaching $60k today. Our middle class is sooooo screwed.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,430
Reaction score
6,178
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
One of the perks of living in Canada is you would have to try rather hard to get anyway close to that level of debt especially in Quebec where tuition is 3000$.
 

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
One of the perks of living in Canada is you would have to try rather hard to get anyway close to that level of debt especially in Quebec where tuition is 3000$.
Tuition at the state colleges in California used to be zero.
Well, almost zero. When I was at Chico State College, I paid $50 a year in student fees.
Oh, but now we call them State universities instead.
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
One of the perks of living in Canada is you would have to try rather hard to get anyway close to that level of debt especially in Quebec where tuition is 3000$.
Tuition at our local community college is only $1300 per semester. In my state, we do have a state academic scholarship, which virtually all worthy students qualify for, and it ranges from $2,000 to $7,600 per year, depending upon the students achievement level in high school. The middle scholarship level is $5,000 a year, which would cover the entire cost of community college plus books, and still leave the student with some money for food and transportation.

Tuition at our 4 year state colleges is around $12k per year, but the most expensive private college in our state is priced at a little more than $50k including room and board (required of all students). My state kicks in an additional $2000/yr tuition grant for all students attending a private college. One private jr college in my county advertises "free" college for any student with at least a 3.0 gpa in high school plus a SAT (two part) score of 1000 (which is about the average score). It's not really free, but they will provide a scholarship to make up the difference between the tuition cost and any other scholarship or grant money.

College in the US isn't nearly as unaffordable as many make it out to be - it's just a matter of being willing to do whatever it takes (making decent grades in high school, joining the military, working a part time or summer job), and going to a college that is within ones budget.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,430
Reaction score
6,178
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Tuition at our local community college is only $1300 per semester. In my state, we do have a state academic scholarship, which virtually all worthy students qualify for, and it ranges from $2,000 to $7,600 per year, depending upon the students achievement level in high school. The middle scholarship level is $5,000 a year, which would cover the entire cost of community college plus books, and still leave the student with some money for food and transportation.

Tuition at our 4 year state colleges is around $12k per year, but the most expensive private college in our state is priced at a little more than $50k including room and board (required of all students). My state kicks in an additional $2000/yr tuition grant for all students attending a private college. One private jr college in my county advertises "free" college for any student with at least a 3.0 gpa in high school plus a SAT (two part) score of 1000 (which is about the average score). It's not really free, but they will provide a scholarship to make up the difference between the tuition cost and any other scholarship or grant money.

College in the US isn't nearly as unaffordable as many make it out to be - it's just a matter of being willing to do whatever it takes (making decent grades in high school, joining the military, working a part time or summer job), and going to a college that is within ones budget.
Well that cost is for university here even the most prestigious ones. Community college is great if you want to be middle class.
 

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well that cost is for university here even the most prestigious ones. Community college is great if you want to be middle class.
Maybe. It all depends on what you study whether you can make it to middle class status that way or not. As Imagep says earlier, the middle class is soo screwed. It's getting more and more difficult to get to that level.

And the middle class is the backbone of this nation. Scary, isn't it?
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
24,399
Reaction score
10,426
Location
Upstate SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well that cost is for university here even the most prestigious ones. Community college is great if you want to be middle class.
Community college can also be an inexpensive stepping stone or bridge to a four year university. Let's face it, English 101 and "Sociology 101" are pretty much the same at community college as they are at Harvard. Community colleges can also be a great opportunity for university students to either get caught up or ahead by attending summer school.

When my kid to Psyc 101 at his major university, it was taught by a world famous researcher with a PhD in abnormal psycology, and he had 250 students in his class. When he took Sociology 101, he did it at community college, it was taught by a non-famous PhD in the Sociology, but with only 15 students in the class. Guess which class he learned more in?

Many 4 year colleges are hooked up with tech schools or community colleges with a bridge program. these community colleges have programs that are taylor designed to lead directly to a specific university curriculum, with no loss of credit hours (except for possibly some remedial classes). Sometimes the community college student can even participate in university extra-curriculars.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,430
Reaction score
6,178
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Community college can also be an inexpensive stepping stone or bridge to a four year university. Let's face it, English 101 and "Sociology 101" are pretty much the same at community college as they are at Harvard. Community colleges can also be a great opportunity for university students to either get caught up or ahead by attending summer school.

When my kid to Psyc 101 at his major university, it was taught by a world famous researcher with a PhD in abnormal psycology, and he had 250 students in his class. When he took Sociology 101, he did it at community college, it was taught by a non-famous PhD in the Sociology, but with only 15 students in the class. Guess which class he learned more in?

Many 4 year colleges are hooked up with tech schools or community colleges with a bridge program. these community colleges have programs that are taylor designed to lead directly to a specific university curriculum, with no loss of credit hours (except for possibly some remedial classes). Sometimes the community college student can even participate in university extra-curriculars.
Well like I said that might be good for some careers making middle income but if you want degrees in business, accounting, aerospace engineering, etc. your not getting that at your local community college. Those paths also require getting connections that community colleges cannot offer.
 
Last edited:

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,125
Reaction score
33,276
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Community college can also be an inexpensive stepping stone or bridge to a four year university. Let's face it, English 101 and "Sociology 101" are pretty much the same at community college as they are at Harvard. Community colleges can also be a great opportunity for university students to either get caught up or ahead by attending summer school.

When my kid to Psyc 101 at his major university, it was taught by a world famous researcher with a PhD in abnormal psycology, and he had 250 students in his class. When he took Sociology 101, he did it at community college, it was taught by a non-famous PhD in the Sociology, but with only 15 students in the class. Guess which class he learned more in?

Many 4 year colleges are hooked up with tech schools or community colleges with a bridge program. these community colleges have programs that are taylor designed to lead directly to a specific university curriculum, with no loss of credit hours (except for possibly some remedial classes). Sometimes the community college student can even participate in university extra-curriculars.
Community colleges are the best choice for most freshmen, at least economically and academically.

Plus, if they're still living at home, mom and dad still have some say as to what they may and may not do, which is a good thing whether the freshman thinks so or not.
 

winston53660

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
29,265
Reaction score
10,128
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well like I said that might be good for some careers making middle income but if you want degrees in business, accounting, aerospace engineering, etc. your not getting that at your local community college. Those paths also require getting connections that community colleges cannot offer.
I knocked out my requirments, english math that kinda of stuff at a CC then went on to an art school called Pratt.
 
Top Bottom