More on the Bell Curve

[ralfy]

 

[Hamish Howl]

hoooo boy.

This place is just crawling in white supremacists these days.

 

[PoS]

The Bell Curve was an example of piss poor science. It was a flawed study based on racist assumptions, and the so-called research was heavily biased.

The lesson learned here is that just because someone is labeled as a "scientist" doesnt automatically make them infallible, in fact they should be subjected to more scrutiny for that very reason.

 

[Redress]

The Bell Curve was an example of piss poor science. It was a flawed study based on racist assumptions, and the so-called research was heavily biased.

The lesson learned here is that just because someone is labeled as a "scientist" doesnt automatically make them infallible, in fact they should be subjected to more scrutiny for that very reason.

Want to have some real fun? Read more Twits from the guy whose tweet is quoted in the OP: https://twitter.com/monitoringbias?...^1684969910848430082|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=

 

[LouC]

hoooo boy.

This place is just crawling in white supremacists these days.

Like MAGATS?

 

[HIP56948]

Why are people so pissed off about a 30 year old book? There's been lots of books and papers that have been wrong about certain subjects.

 

[justabubba]

is that same racial IQ gap what is responsible for asians now having higher incomes and greater academic achievements than whites in the USA
despite their minority status

 

[AmNat]

The Bell Curve was an example of piss poor science. It was a flawed study based on racist assumptions, and the so-called research was heavily biased.

The lesson learned here is that just because someone is labeled as a "scientist" doesnt automatically make them infallible, in fact they should be subjected to more scrutiny for that very reason.

 

[Airyaman]

Do you actually comment in your threads or are you a selective news aggregator?

 

[Redress]

Amusingly, the one person in this thread to call someone a racist here is not a liberal, making your idiotic meme fail in every possible way.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The Bell Curve was an example of piss poor science. It was a flawed study based on racist assumptions, and the so-called research was heavily biased.

The lesson learned here is that just because someone is labeled as a "scientist" doesnt automatically make them infallible, in fact they should be subjected to more scrutiny for that very reason.

I’m not sure that the “so-called research was heavily biased” as it it still said (by many) that (any?) standardized testing is biased.

“While much has been said about the racial achievement gap as a civil rights issue, more attention needs to be paid to the measurement tools used to define that gap,” explains Young Wan Choi, manager of performance assessments for the Oakland Unified school District in Oakland, CA. “Education reformists, civil rights organizations, and all who are concerned with racial justice in education need to advocate for assessment tools that don’t replicate racial and economic inequality.”

The Racist Beginnings of Standardized Testing | NEA

From grade school to college, students of color have suffered from the effects of biased testing.

www.nea.org

IMHO, this conclusion of bias is (entirely?) based on the notion of an observed ‘disparate impact’ result (by race) being proof of racist policy and/or intent of the method (metric?) used to produce (measure?) it.

What seems to be (politically?) biased (based on wishful thinking alone?) is the idea that equality of opportunity will (or at least should) result in equality of outcome.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

An Artificial Intelligence could remaster your meme pic, so it was bigger than the original but not ugly as **** with jpeg errors.

Seems you used Artificial Stupidity instead.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It’s not that any human trait isn’t normally distributed, it’s that measuring the normal distribution of most human traits results in a bell curve. It’s not unusual to find grades within a single classroom of students to have more C grades than either D or B grades and more D or B grades than either F or A grades.

This is generally true within a group of employees or sports team members, since most will be deemed satisfactory while a few will be deemed to either need improvement or to be above average.

The concept of a median level (of any group) means that half are above and half are below that median level, yet its also likely that more individuals are closer to that median level than are at either extreme - resulting in a bell curve shaped graphic representation.

 

[TheParser]

I once read that if in the future, scientists can "prove" that certain groups are more intelligent than others, the results would have to be kept secret from (the) hoi polloi.

I agree 100%.

 

[Grand Mal]

Are you saying PoS is a liberal?
Oh, I get it- everyone who recognizes racism is a liberal and PoS has just been in the closet until yesterday!
Does that knee-jerk make you fall over when you hear certain words spoken?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Are you saying PoS is a liberal?
Oh, I get it- everyone who recognizes racism is a liberal and PoS has just been in the closet until yesterday!
Does that knee-jerk make you fall over when you hear certain words spoken?

The issue is that “recognizing racism” is likely nothing more than using (employing?) a metric which recognizes (exposes?) ‘disparate impact’. It’s not racist to recognize and document ‘disparate impact’ and doing so isn‘t racist. See post #13.

 

[Grand Mal]

The issue is that “recognizing racism” is likely nothing more than using (employing?) a metric which recognizes (exposes?) ‘disparate impact’. It’s not racist to recognize and document ‘disparate impact’ and doing so isn‘t racist. See post #13.

Yes, I get it. The greatest number of the population who is, says or does anything are around the median and the numbers (percentage) drops off the further from the median in either direction.
My issue is with the assumption that anyone who recognizes racism is a liberal. Damn, conservatives should take issue with that implication also. Conservatives ( and I mean conservatives, not magats and Q's and alt.right nutjobs) know that racism exists and deplore it also.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes, I get it. The greatest number of the population who is, says or does anything are around the median and the numbers (percentage) drops off the further from the median in either direction.
My issue is with the assumption that anyone who recognizes racism is a liberal. Damn, conservatives should take issue with that implication also. Conservatives ( and I mean conservatives, not magats and Q's and alt.right nutjobs) know that racism exists and deplore it also.

OK, but my point was that measuring (and reporting) racial differences in whatever (including ‘intelligence’) isn’t racist. Measuring differences isn’t causing those differences. After all, measurable differences in individual intelligence are no less apt to occur than differences in individual athletic or musical ability.

 

[AmNat]

Amusingly, the one person in this thread to call someone a racist here is not a liberal, making your idiotic meme fail in every possible way.

It’s a stock meme. I’m not spending my time editing it.

 

[Grand Mal]

OK, but my point was that measuring (and reporting) racial differences in whatever (including ‘intelligence’) isn’t racist. Measuring differences isn’t causing those differences. After all, measurable differences in individual intelligence are no less apt to occur than differences in individual athletic or musical ability.

But you can't 'measure' intelligence. It's too abstract.
My IQ was measured when I was 8. I wasn't told the result but I know what the number was because a school principal didn't apparently know that an 8 year old could read upside-down across a desk. A few years ago I did another test and got a slightly higher number which, given the years of alcohol and recreational drug use since, is bloody impossible. I believe it takes a certain amount of a certain kind of smarts to do well on any test but ultimately all that's being tested is your ability to do that test.
From Wiki...

"IQ scores can differ to some degree for the same person on different IQ tests, so a person does not always belong to the same IQ score range each time the person is tested. (IQ score table data and pupil pseudonyms adapted from description of KABC-II norming study cited in Kaufman (2009).[81][82])

Pupil	KABC-II	WISC-III	WJ-III
A	90	95	111
B	125	110	105
C	100	93	101
D	116	127	118
E	93	105	93
F	106	105	105
G	95	100	90
H	112	113	103
I	104	96	97
J	101	99	86
K	81	78	75
L	116	124	102

 

[Grand Mal]

It’s a stock meme. I’m not spending my time editing it.

It's a brainless meme and no amount of editing can change that.

 

[ttwtt78640]

But you can't 'measure' intelligence. It's too abstract.
My IQ was measured when I was 8. I wasn't told the result but I know what the number was because a school principal didn't apparently know that an 8 year old could read upside-down across a desk. A few years ago I did another test and got a slightly higher number which, given the years of alcohol and recreational drug use since, is bloody impossible. I believe it takes a certain amount of a certain kind of smarts to do well on any test but ultimately all that's being tested is your ability to do that test.
From Wiki...

"IQ scores can differ to some degree for the same person on different IQ tests, so a person does not always belong to the same IQ score range each time the person is tested. (IQ score table data and pupil pseudonyms adapted from description of KABC-II norming study cited in Kaufman (2009).[81][82])

Pupil	KABC-II	WISC-III	WJ-III
A	90	95	111
B	125	110	105
C	100	93	101
D	116	127	118
E	93	105	93
F	106	105	105
G	95	100	90
H	112	113	103
I	104	96	97
J	101	99	86
K	81	78	75
L	116	124	102

OK, but the fact that no single metric is perfect (or gets perfectly consistent results) isn’t racist or reason not to have (and use) metrics.

There will be variations among individual 2x4s within a bunk of wall framing lumber, but ‘discriminating’ in their use (by a decent framing carpenter) is expected. Boards with extreme bows, crowns or twists (if used at all) are best used for fire blocking (if required) or cripple studs, those with moderate crowns (but little bow) are best used for studs (alternating the crowns between inside and outside) and those with moderate bows (but little crown) for top/bottom plates. Of course, ‘perfect’ boards can be used for anything.

 

[j brown's body]

Why are people so pissed off about a 30 year old book? There's been lots of books and papers that have been wrong about certain subjects.

It keeps getting shoved down our throats. See the op.

 

[Redress]

It’s a stock meme. I’m not spending my time editing it.

So it is not your fault your meme was wrong in every possible way? Well, that is certainly an excuse. Not a good one, but an excuse nontheless.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The Bell Curve, as applied to a deviation curve in IQ score, then applied again to a statistical disparity where black people in the US score lower on average than white people is not in itself racist. The reality is, as uncomfortable as it may be, it is in the data.

What is racist is failing to talk about why the disparity exists, and that should be where we discuss.

You can still call this resurgence of the subject, because of a book, as racist when drawing conclusions that it is acceptable to treat people differently based on the data instead of being a little bit more bold and talk about what could be done to close the gaps.

The point being, saying ethnicity differs in physical, behavioral, and intellectual capacities misses the point. I would even argue it is intellectual laziness to leave the conversation there, just as much so as resigning the conversation on some ethnicity traditionally and consistently scoring lower on vocabulary, reading, and math assessments.

A truth worth mentioning is the gap tends to narrow and widen depending on generation, influences are not standard, which suggests influence changes are possible further amplifying the point the book and the Curve as presented is very flawed. If social and economic improvement is the goal, for everyone, then uncomfortable conversations are needed to discuss everything from social upbringing and education disparities to nutrition and healthcare disparities.

Social media memes miss the point, usually intentionally. Similar story with Twitter posts.

It is not racist to want to discuss the matter looking for measurable and obtainable goals, again the gap is not liner generation to generation. What is racist is concluding what the book did, which is basically giving up and saying something like "it is what it is."