Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

[The Rev Kros]

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online

I remember a news expose on soup kitchen lines. A guy was interviewing the people in line and asking them where they lived and what appliances they had. Many had apartments, color televisions, microwaves, etc.

The bar of poverty in the most prosperous nation on earth is pretty damn high. People bring up class warfare, but the proles are not living on day old bread and living in literal squalor.

 

[Deuce]

I think every one of the items you listed, and other items normally listed when this is talked about, is an absolutely absurd benchmark.

Color television. For ****'s sake. If you wanted a black and white television it would probably be even more expensive because it would be being sold on Ebay as a novelty/classic item.
Microwaves? Basic ****ing cooking tool.
Cell phone? Basic communications tool and often not even more expensive than a land-line.

Yes, it's not the same conditions as the poor experienced in the 1800's, but in case nobody realized it we're not living in the 1800s. Basic communications and cooking tools are necessary to function as a productive member of society. If you think the poor don't deserve even basic entertainment devices, you're some kind of ****ing monster and should be ashamed of just how little you think of them. Oh my god, 99.6% of the poor have a refrigerator!? My tax dollars! You can't freaking store many food items without one, ok?

No, it isn't literal squalor. But maybe, just ****ing maybe, the richest nation on the planet can aim for a mark higher than not literal squalor.

And yes, by the way, there are people living in literal squalor.

 

[Wiseone]

I think every one of the items you listed, and other items normally listed when this is talked about, is an absolutely absurd benchmark.

Color television. For ****'s sake. If you wanted a black and white television it would probably be even more expensive because it would be being sold on Ebay as a novelty/classic item.
Microwaves? Basic ****ing cooking tool.
Cell phone? Basic communications tool and often not even more expensive than a land-line.

Yes, it's not the same conditions as the poor experienced in the 1800's, but in case nobody realized it we're not living in the 1800s. Basic communications and cooking tools are necessary to function as a productive member of society. If you think the poor don't deserve even basic entertainment devices, you're some kind of ****ing monster and should be ashamed of just how little you think of them. Oh my god, 99.6% of the poor have a refrigerator!? My tax dollars! You can't freaking store many food items without one, ok?

No, it isn't literal squalor. But maybe, just ****ing maybe, the richest nation on the planet can aim for a mark higher than not literal squalor.

And yes, by the way, there are people living in literal squalor.

While I agree things like a cell phone or refrigerator are neccesary in the US for a secure and decent future, even though they aren't in other places or times, a TV is hardly a neccesary item.

 

[Geo Patric]

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online

I remember a news expose on soup kitchen lines. A guy was interviewing the people in line and asking them where they lived and what appliances they had. Many had apartments, color televisions, microwaves, etc.

The bar of poverty in the most prosperous nation on earth is pretty damn high. People bring up class warfare, but the proles are not living on day old bread and living in literal squalor.

this is so unreal.... so ****ing disgusting.

 

[Deuce]

While I agree things like a cell phone or refrigerator are neccesary in the US for a secure and decent future, even though they aren't in other places or times, a TV is hardly a neccesary item.

I think we should aim higher than what is necessary for mere existence. Televisions are one of the primary ways people gets news about the community, country, and world.

The more irritating part of the television addition to the list is the constant specification of color television, as if color is some sort of amazing luxury when it comes to televisions. Do black and white televisions even still exist as a commercial product?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

This is really ridiculous.

1. The majority of apartments come with most of those things - AC, fridges, microwaves, ovens and yes, sometimes even things like a coffee maker and a coffee table with a TV on it. It's pretty damn common. Especially in low end apartments - they just ask for a little more on the deposit.

2. A lot of these people bought these things BEFORE they were poor.

3. Things like AC are necessary to survival in a lot of the country. We have a heat index of 122 degrees where I'm at today. I would probably have had a heat stroke by now if I didn't have AC, and my elderly cat would be dead for sure. A goddamn fridge is certainly necessary if you want to live in anything resembling civilization. And having a cell phone, as someone else mentioned, often costs the same or sometimes less than having a landline. Lots of people have a cell phone and no landline. Having a cell phone is not a mark of luxury. It's a basic communication tool, which you are expected to have by pretty much any employer (setting aside social interaction). And a washing machine? Seriously?

4. I can't honestly believe that people think things are ok as long as we keep the bar above the mud huts and malaria outbreaks of 3rd world countries. We're the friggin' United States of America.

5. This study was apparently done by the Heritage Foundation. That's an easy way to lose the trust of any thinking human being in a hurry.

 

[Badmutha]

The "Poor" in America...........

.........still reside in the top 2% worldwide........
.
.
.

.
......and liberals say were not doing enough for "da poor".....

Do we need XBOX stamps or Flat Screen Credits?
.
.
.
.
.

 

[Ikari]

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online

I remember a news expose on soup kitchen lines. A guy was interviewing the people in line and asking them where they lived and what appliances they had. Many had apartments, color televisions, microwaves, etc.

The bar of poverty in the most prosperous nation on earth is pretty damn high. People bring up class warfare, but the proles are not living on day old bread and living in literal squalor.

well we don't live in caves anymore. So I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Ockham]

well we don't live in caves anymore. So I don't know what to tell you.

The term "poverty" doesn't mean poor, hungry, unclothed, unkept or living outside. It's a useless term used for political gain and to garner votes.... which is why "poverty" is never banished.

 

[Deuce]

The term "poverty" doesn't mean poor, hungry, unclothed, unkept or living outside. It's a useless term used for political gain and to garner votes.... which is why "poverty" is never banished.

So, this argument is literally semantics?

 

[Goshin]

The "Poor" in America...........

.........still reside in the top 2% worldwide........
.
.
.

.
......and liberals say were not doing enough for "da poor".....

Do we need XBOX stamps or Flat Screen Credits?
.
.
.
.
.

I don't begrudge someone a fridge, a TV, a phone/cellphone or a microwave. These are basics of life nowadays, and you need the phone if you're going to ever get a job and become self-sufficient again. AC isn't a luxury these days in much of the country; houses and apartments are not made to be "breezy" like they used to be in the old days, they're made "tight" and insulated for central air.

I don't even begrudge them a personal computer and internet access, or a car... these days you almost have to have those to get a job in many places. Assuming they're trying to get a job.

BUT I do think that CABLE TV is excessive.... an XBOX is probably excessive.... a big screen TV is damn excessive... and from the list above a fair percentage have those.

On the whole though, it does make the point: our "Poor" live better than the "middle class" in Somalia...

Poor is relative.

 

[Deuce]

I don't begrudge someone a fridge, a TV, a phone/cellphone or a microwave. These are basics of life nowadays, and you need the phone if you're going to ever get a job and become self-sufficient again. AC isn't a luxury these days in much of the country; houses and apartments are not made to be "breezy" like they used to be in the old days, they're made "tight" and insulated for central air.

I don't even begrudge them a personal computer and internet access, or a car... these days you almost have to have those to get a job in many places. Assuming they're trying to get a job.

BUT I do think that CABLE TV is excessive.... an XBOX is probably excessive.... a big screen TV is damn excessive... and from the list above a fair percentage have those.

On the whole though, it does make the point: our "Poor" live better than the "middle class" in Somalia...

Poor is relative.

What if they bought the Xbox and big screen TV but lost their jobs which made them poor? Should they be forced to sell any basic entertainment item before being allowed to go to a soup kitchen for assistance?

 

[Goshin]

What if they bought the Xbox and big screen TV but lost their jobs which made them poor? Should they be forced to sell any basic entertainment item before being allowed to go to a soup kitchen for assistance?

No. I never said that.


But for many of world's poorest regions, "rock bottom" is when you WISH you could boil your shoes and eat the softened leather to fill your empty belly... but you can't because you ate your shoes last week. Poor, for them, is when your kids can't read, because if you sent them to school they wouldn't be helping in the fields and the family wouldn't have enough food to stave off starvation. A little girl named Chileya Mumba, I helped through Christian Children's Fund was in that position... we paid her family so they could buy extra food and send the kids to school, bought her paper and pencils and books, shoes... she was thrilled when we sent her a real doll, it was the first toy she'd ever had. After several years of aid, her family had gone from the edge of starvation to what was locally considered "prosperity"... that is, they had shoes and enough to eat, and children who could read and maybe be something other than dry-sand scratch-farmers. Her family saved some money and moved to a better area, where you can actually grow a decent crop without the warlords taking it away from you.

What's my point? :shrug: Just providing some perspective.

 

[rathi]

Old model consumer electronics are near worthless. You can get free 50 inch CRT TV off craigslist for free if you pick up yourself. Given the insanely poor resale value, it makes sense poor families would keep usable items around. I don't doubt that people play games with the definition of the poverty line all the time, but having an old TV isn't proof alone.

 

[Helix]

The "Poor" in America...........

.........still reside in the top 2% worldwide........
.
.
.

.
......and liberals say were not doing enough for "da poor".....

Do we need XBOX stamps or Flat Screen Credits?
.
.
.
.
.

give it a try for five years, and report back. i'll be interested to hear your take on it.

 

[stelz]

I can see from this thread that some people would like to make sure the poor are totally miserable and huddling in an unheated hovel with nothing to do but stare at the wall before they'd give them a damn food stamp.

 

[CriticalThought]

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online

I remember a news expose on soup kitchen lines. A guy was interviewing the people in line and asking them where they lived and what appliances they had. Many had apartments, color televisions, microwaves, etc.

The bar of poverty in the most prosperous nation on earth is pretty damn high. People bring up class warfare, but the proles are not living on day old bread and living in literal squalor.

You could get most of those appliances all together for $100 at a Goodwill. I'm not sure how appliances are a good measure of whether someone can afford necessities like food, electricity, and health care. In fact, it seems kind of stupid and like a cop out people who don't want to take a serious look at statistics would make. The "color TV" in particular is pretty stupid. As if they even make black and white TVs anywhere or you could even buy one at a Goodwill if you wanted one.

 

[Ockham]

So, this argument is literally semantics?

Partially - the rest is relative / subjective ... whatever you want to call it. Think about it for a minute... when do you hear anyone talking or making lofty speeches about the poor? During campaigning season. When campaigning season is over - it's back to ignoring the poor. To me, it looks like they (the "poor") are a useful tool ever 2 to 4 years at the State and Federal levels. The rest of the time... they're shoved in a box with a label that says "Open next election".

Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[CriticalThought]

No. I never said that.


But for many of world's poorest regions, "rock bottom" is when you WISH you could boil your shoes and eat the softened leather to fill your empty belly... but you can't because you ate your shoes last week. Poor, for them, is when your kids can't read, because if you sent them to school they wouldn't be helping in the fields and the family wouldn't have enough food to stave off starvation. A little girl named Chileya Mumba, I helped through Christian Children's Fund was in that position... we paid her family so they could buy extra food and send the kids to school, bought her paper and pencils and books, shoes... she was thrilled when we sent her a real doll, it was the first toy she'd ever had. After several years of aid, her family had gone from the edge of starvation to what was locally considered "prosperity"... that is, they had shoes and enough to eat, and children who could read and maybe be something other than dry-sand scratch-farmers. Her family saved some money and moved to a better area, where you can actually grow a decent crop without the warlords taking it away from you.

What's my point? :shrug: Just providing some perspective.

Stupid perspective. This is America and you are arguing that things could be crappier? I work with homeless people who can't afford $3 to buy their prescriptions and who have to sleep at the shelter where disease, drugs, and crime run rampant and who have serious health problems. Have you ever met people who have to lie about being suicidal in order to get basic health care at a psychiatric hospital? You think real poverty doesn't exist in our country? People do starve or die of exposure in America. There are people eating out of your trash.

 

[BDBoop]

This is really ridiculous.

1. The majority of apartments come with most of those things - AC, fridges, microwaves, ovens and yes, sometimes even things like a coffee maker and a coffee table with a TV on it. It's pretty damn common. Especially in low end apartments - they just ask for a little more on the deposit.

2. A lot of these people bought these things BEFORE they were poor.

3. Things like AC are necessary to survival in a lot of the country. We have a heat index of 122 degrees where I'm at today. I would probably have had a heat stroke by now if I didn't have AC, and my elderly cat would be dead for sure. A goddamn fridge is certainly necessary if you want to live in anything resembling civilization. And having a cell phone, as someone else mentioned, often costs the same or sometimes less than having a landline. Lots of people have a cell phone and no landline. Having a cell phone is not a mark of luxury. It's a basic communication tool, which you are expected to have by pretty much any employer (setting aside social interaction). And a washing machine? Seriously?

4. I can't honestly believe that people think things are ok as long as we keep the bar above the mud huts and malaria outbreaks of 3rd world countries. We're the friggin' United States of America.

5. This study was apparently done by the Heritage Foundation. That's an easy way to lose the trust of any thinking human being in a hurry.

Bolded #2 - exactly what I was thinking.

 

[The Rev Kros]

What is the bar for "poor"? Is it always relative to the rest of the nation? What if the nation is so prosperous that the poor all have 2 cars in a 3 bedroom house and take a trip to cancun for a week each year. They would still be considered "poor" only because most others do better.

"Poor" should be a term used to describe people who cannot or can barely get by on their own. It should not be a percentage of the majority. I want to help the poor. I do not want to make sure they get the latest in luxury electronics.

 

[CriticalThought]

Partially - the rest is relative / subjective ... whatever you want to call it. Think about it for a minute... when do you hear anyone talking or making lofty speeches about the poor? During campaigning season. When campaigning season is over - it's back to ignoring the poor. To me, it looks like they (the "poor") are a useful tool ever 2 to 4 years at the State and Federal levels. The rest of the time... they're shoved in a box with a label that says "Open next election".

Tell me I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

I've seen some excellent policy come about in order to help the poor. The number one thing most of the homeless people I work with want is a job. I can get them food, medicine, a place to stay the night, but I can't get them the one thing they really want and need, and that is the means to make their situation better for themselves.

 

[Ockham]

Stupid perspective. This is America and you are arguing that things could be crappier? I work with homeless people who can't afford $3 to buy their prescriptions and who have to sleep at the shelter where disease, drugs, and crime run rampant and who have serious health problems. Have you ever met people who have to lie about being suicidal in order to get basic health care at a psychiatric hospital? You think real poverty doesn't exist in our country? People do starve or die of exposure in America. There are people eating out of your trash.

Hell yeah it can be crappier... on a much larger scale. I'm not belittling those who have nothing and live on the streets by any means but if you think this is as bad as things can get, you have no idea. Try living through a world war, try living under a dictatorship in Easter Block Romania circa 1975. Sure there are those who have it bad, but by far this country is in excellent shape when compared to others of the same era or different era's.

 

[BDBoop]

No. I never said that.


But for many of world's poorest regions, "rock bottom" is when you WISH you could boil your shoes and eat the softened leather to fill your empty belly... but you can't because you ate your shoes last week. Poor, for them, is when your kids can't read, because if you sent them to school they wouldn't be helping in the fields and the family wouldn't have enough food to stave off starvation. A little girl named Chileya Mumba, I helped through Christian Children's Fund was in that position... we paid her family so they could buy extra food and send the kids to school, bought her paper and pencils and books, shoes... she was thrilled when we sent her a real doll, it was the first toy she'd ever had. After several years of aid, her family had gone from the edge of starvation to what was locally considered "prosperity"... that is, they had shoes and enough to eat, and children who could read and maybe be something other than dry-sand scratch-farmers. Her family saved some money and moved to a better area, where you can actually grow a decent crop without the warlords taking it away from you.

What's my point? :shrug: Just providing some perspective.

And poor for 'us' is if we miss ONE PAYCHECK, we are well and truly screwed.

 

[CriticalThought]

What is the bar for "poor"? Is it always relative to the rest of the nation? What if the nation is so prosperous that the poor all have 2 cars in a 3 bedroom house and take a trip to cancun for a week each year. They would still be considered "poor" only because most others do better.

"Poor" should be a term used to describe people who cannot or can barely get by on their own. It should not be a percentage of the majority. I want to help the poor. I do not want to make sure they get the latest in luxury electronics.

In America, "poor" is calculated as an income equal to or less than 3 times the expected cost of food for the family.