Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy[W:137]

Redress · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
thanks for confirming your hypocrisy. ignorant rhetoric is still ignorance. the fact that you defend it is, indeed, interesting

What did I defend? Nothing that I can see. I pointed out that there is a difference between rhetoric and ignorance, not that one is better than the other. Building that straw man is not going to work for you Oscar.

MoSurveyor · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
90% of the population are morons. What is surprising is that this guy has managed to rise to relatively high political office being one.

In that area of MO all you need is an (R) after your name to win. It doesn't matter who or what you are. If you can pass muster to get the R behind your name you're good to go, and that doesn't take anything but the ability to parrot the Party Line.

OscarB63 · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Redress said:
What did I defend? Nothing that I can see. I pointed out that there is a difference between rhetoric and ignorance, not that one is better than the other. Building that straw man is not going to work for you Oscar.

whatever you have to tell yourself chief

OscarB63 · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

MoSurveyor said:
In that area of MO all you need is an (R) after your name to win. It doesn't matter who or what you are. If you can pass muster to get the R behind your name you're good to go, and that doesn't take anything but the ability to parrot the Party Line.

kind of like how charlie rangel keeps getting elected?

Redress · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
whatever you have to tell yourself chief

Facts. They are good. I don't have to make them up to make a point.

MoSurveyor · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
kind of like how charlie rangel keeps getting elected?

I don't know NY well enough to judge - do you? But I do know that part of Missouri.

Redress · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Romney calls Akin

Mitt Romney called Rep. Todd Akin's suggestion that "legitimate rape" cannot make a woman pregnant "offensive" and "inexcusable."

In an interview with National Review's Robert Costa, the presumptive Republican nominee joined a growing number of GOP officials calling on the congressman to "correct" his statement.

"Congressman's Akin comments on rape are insulting, inexcusable and, frankly, wrong," Romney said. "Like millions of other Americans, we found them to be offensive."

Credit to Romney for doing the right thing.

hazlnut · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Another Lurker said:
What the person meant was an actual rape versus a claimed rape.

How do you purpose getting statistics on women 'claiming' rape to get a legal abortion?

And if the girl is below the age of consent -- it was statutory rape.

rocket88 · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

This, of course, is not the only dumbass thing he's said

Todd Akin’s Bachmann-esque problem

Akin has a knack for making news when he speaks, because he unapologetically expresses very conservative views on issues that most politicians won’t touch with a 10-foot poll (wanting to re-litigate civil rights laws, comparing federal student loans to stage 3 cancer and opposing federal funding for school lunches – and that’s just in the past few days).

If you follow my link, there are links to those other things. It just doesn't follow in the quote.

SmokeAndMirrors · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Gina said:
I understand and it's intuitive to me, that if a woman is under stress, she is less likely to get pregnant, but your links don't directly address rape as a trigger.

If you have unprotected sex you have 5% chance of getting pregnant and that is the same rate of pregnancy from rape.

I've seen estimates as high at 17% and as low as 3%, in terms of chances of pregnancy from rape. I admit there is a lot of unsettled work to be done in this field, partly because rape survivors don't tend to want to be interviewed.

I won't deny that your links are in good faith and may very well have good methodology. However, studies in good faith and good methodology have considerable discrepancies. This stuff is hard to track. In order for us to be better able to analyze this, we would need studies published at the same time from the same place, comparing unstressed women, with women under various kinds of stressors, including rape.

Also, the stress factor continues to have an affect even after pregnancy is established. How many of these women would miscarry? This particular study doesn't say. Rape can be said to be a trigger because it is an extreme stressor.

Another reason I challenge this is the congressman's assertion: "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

He seems to be implying if it's not a "legitimate" rape, then pregnancy will result, thus calling the question as to whether the woman who gets pregnant was actually raped.

This is true, and something that deserves attention. I was sticking to his dodging of the question he was asked.

Certainly "rape blaming" or even rape denial is at least as sick as denying women who are raped access to abortion. But I try my best not to be side-lined when someone is intentionally trying to side-line me. Or perhaps my mind just can't handle that must depravity at once. A bit of this, a bit of that...

rocket88 · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Another Lurker said:
Well, I guess it's time for me to sound like the Kenyan's spin machine.

What the person meant was an actual rape versus a claimed rape.

Now tell me that the above isn't what the Dims would say if one of their folks had made that stupid comment.

A L

Of course it is, that doesn't mean the guy's right.

Furiounova · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
That is not true. See above.

Rape triggers a stress response which is shown to lower the chances of regular ovulation, conception, and viable pregnancy.

I feel like it's insane I have to disclaim this, but given how people have responded thus far, I will: I am not defending the anti-choicer in the OP. I am defending scientific accuracy. It does not matter to me if the chances are lower. Women who are raped deserve access to abortion. Any woman deserves access to abortion. However, I will not abandon accuracy to make that point. I don't have to.

He was claiming a female's body has the ability to respond specifically to rape. That is his argument.

Somerville · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Right here.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...arely-results-pregnancy-3.html#post1060814702

Extreme stress reduces the chances of not only conception, but also viable pregnancy. Early miscarriage is very common even under the best of circumstances. It is not as though birth is inevitable whenever conception occurs. It is actually more likely it will be expelled. And even more so when under extreme stress.

Some women who are raped will still become pregnant and maintain the pregnancy. But it is less likely. If they do, it does not make their rape any less "legitimate." But it is scientifically true that it is less likely.

It is not "scientifically true" that a rape victim is less likely to become pregnant than a woman engaging in consensual sex.

a bit more from a doctor (board-certified OB-Gyn)

Did Todd Akin get his misinformation on rape and pregnancy from Physicians for Life?

The Physicians for Life site quotes 3 sources, only one is original research. The one article was authored by Goth and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, 1977 (yes, 1977) and in NO WAY SUPPORTS THE NOTION THAT RAPES ARE RARE OR THAT THE STRESS RESPONSE LOWERS THE PREGNANCY RATE. It is an article about sexual dysfunction among rapists. Put another way, the Physicians for Life have not provided a single published article to support their claims. Interestingly, Physicians for Life also promote the long disproven claim that abortion causes breast cancer.

There are obvious difficulties in studying rape outcomes as “only 16 to 38% of rape victims report the rape to law enforcement, and only 17 to 43% present for medical evaluation after rape; one-third of victims of rape never report the assault to their primary care doctor.” (NEJM 2011). However, a scientific estimate (i.e. from research) is between 25,000 and 32,000 pregnancies from rape a year in the United States (American Journal Obstetrics and Gynecology 1996 and American Journal of Preventative Medicine 2000).

Just to put those numbers into perspective, about 22,000 women a year in the United States develop ovarian cancer. No one thinks that’s rare. About 32,000 American women get melanoma every year (American Cancer Society, 2012). No one thinks that’s rare either.

Furiounova · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Somerville said:
It is not "scientifically true" that a rape victim is less likely to become pregnant than a woman engaging in consensual sex.

a bit more from a doctor (board-certified OB-Gyn)

But...but that doctor is akin to donating to the Democratic party therefore...is not really a really real doctor.

Dittohead not! · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
90% of the population are morons. What is surprising is that this guy has managed to rise to relatively high political office being one.

It's not too surprising that they've elected one of their own to represent them, is it?

Another Lurker · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

hazlnut said:
How do you purpose getting statistics on women 'claiming' rape to get a legal abortion?

And if the girl is below the age of consent -- it was statutory rape.

Dearest Hazel,

When you read my post ... please try to comprehend what I'm saying.

Love and kisses.

A L

solletica · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

MoSurveyor said:
The idiots in the suburbs around St. Louis!

I've got a friend there and sometimes I fear for his political well-being. Like any of us he can be influenced by his neighbors - and in his case his neighbors are, well, not the sharpest knives in the drawer as far as their convictions go.

If they're potty trained and know their ABCs, they're generally considered among the sharpest knives in the GOP drawer.

poweRob · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Its morons like this that give us Pro-Lifers a bad name:

Romney is running away from him. Karl Rove is pulling his superpac money from him. Some GOPers are telling him to drop from the race. It's not looking good for the 'ol boy.

Another Lurker · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

rocket88 said:
Of course it is, that doesn't mean the guy's right.

Apparently the concept of humor is elusive to some folks on this board.

A L

solletica · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Redress said:
Romney calls Akin

Credit to Romney for doing the right thing.

Sounds more like he did the Left thing.

iguanaman · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Its morons like this that give us Pro-Lifers a bad name:

poweRob said:
Romney is running away from him. Karl Rove is pulling his superpac money from him. Some GOPers are telling him to drop from the race. It's not looking good for the 'ol boy.

But it does show the caliber of the candidates from the T's perfectly. The more ignorant the better.

Dittohead not! · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

solletica said:
Sounds more like he did the Left thing.

If opposing rape is a left thing, then yes.

Schweddy · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Its morons like this that give us Pro-Lifers a bad name:

I'd like to know if he thought it was medical fact. If so, where did he hear/read it?
Not to justify his line or anything but wtf?

Romulus · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

MoSurveyor said:
I don't know NY well enough to judge - do you? But I do know that part of Missouri.

That part? His district encompasses St. Charles. Not exactly a backwater. Missouri is a swing state, Obama was barely defeated there in 08'. They have a Democrat Governor and Senator Claire McCaskill is a Democrat with a solid chance of winning re-election even if Obama loses. Akin made a moronic statement, no reason to tear down the entire state for it.

Redress · Aug 20, 2012

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Moderator's Warning:

Thread merged again.

Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy[W:137]

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