- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 45,596
- Reaction score
- 22,536
- Location
- Everywhere and nowhere
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Progressive
No, but alms did, I was replying to both of you.I nevr said that.
So, facism is the answer? Mmmm'kay!
No, but alms did, I was replying to both of you.
And I never said that. I might be talking about economic isolationism, and if you think that amounts to fascism you have a woefully inadequate understanding of both history and political science.
That's not what I'm talking about at all. What I am talking about is a government that regulates privately owned corporations with the protection of its own citizens in mind.Facism is exactly what you're talking about. Corporations that are privately owned and government run.
You sure as hell aren't talking about Capitalism.
These are very single-minded ways of looking at the issue.
To say that outsourcing benefits consumers by providing lower prices ignores the fact that it sends jobs away from this economy.
What good are lower prices without jobs?
We buy the goods with our money that then goes overseas and becomes their money, slowly draining our economy. It's overall hurting our economy to lose manufacturing jobs, just look at Detroit, to claim it's a net positive is disingenuous.
OR we could enforce more stringent restriction on companies who decide to take advantage of cheap overseas labor by refusing to allow the import of overseas manufactured goods.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and instead of relaxing laws that protect workers we should force the multinationals to provide their jobs in the economy they expect to sell their goods and services to. I know it's hard for some koolaid drinking conservatives to believe but the so-called free makert is not the best decision-maker, and government can actually be a force for good if it works to protect our economy.
You discarded the entire body of Adam Smith's work as "irrelevant dogma" and you're calling me single-minded? That's funny.
So, I'm a single-minded, Koolaid-drinking conservative? What makes you think I'm a conservative?
Insults aside, the idea that you can force multinationals to provide jobs strictly in the market they plan to sell to is silly. Undercutting profit motive will only push more jobs overseas; protectionism is a failed economic ideology that results in anemic growth and stagnation.
I pay more for many things in order to buy locally.
Part of personal responsibility is making personal sacrifices for the greater good of your community.
Well, paying more to prop up inefficient enterprises only delays the inevitable.
The business should find out how to be more efficient or find justification for higher prices so consumers will buy. Consumers don't treat businesses as charities, willing to pay more; ask Wal Mart.
They save the average family about $2,000 per year. If they stopped doing what made Wally World, Wally World... someone else would come in and kick their asses.
If the price can be justified... OK... but if it's a "personal sacrifice", an act of charity, the business will eventually fail.
I might pay a supplier marginally higher rates if he has the items I need, decent terms, fast service, friendly and easy to deal with individuals or all four. Otherwise it's going to be shopped for the lowest price.
I don't see business as charity.
.
Agree. Sometimes you don't need the best quality though.First, cheaper doesn't mean "more efficient". It usually means lower quality and, well, cheaper.
Megastore have advantages over the Mom & Pop. In purchasing for example, the Mega's have not only buying power but individuals trained for specific products.Next, I can't control the idocy of other people who decide to shoot themselves in the foot by looking at the short-term gains they recieve by shopping at megastores and such. When it's their job that gets outsourced due to their inability to have any long-term planning.
May I suggest a book, Made in America by Sam Walton. Sam Walton -Made in AmericaMany of th epeople I know who shop at walmart are totally replaceable in thier jobs. They are at high risk for outsourcing. They don't have any legitmate skills and their ultimate fate will probably be working at wal-mart themselves, and thus making a lower wage, and requiring them to look even more closely at their meager savings from wal-mart with appreciation.
Well, that is part of the equation, but I've had no problem with products bought there, often what I'd buy elsewhere for less. With families with kids I can understand it especially. they have kids to cloth and feed and the kids are growing. Clothes in, clothes out.On top of that, they'll constantly bitch about the lower quality of their goods and the horse**** service they receive, while I continue to enjoy being treated like a king at the establishments I frequent.
Perhaps I've been spending too much time in Europe. Their customer service is non-existent, so when I head back home I'm always appreciative and notice a world of difference.The problem isn't that people want better service. IF that was the case, coporations would fail immediately due to their shoddy customer service. Even the good ones aren't **** compared to a small local business.
Tucker... man... I've never seen you like this.What people want is cheaper. The only thing that matters to them is that they "saved" 20 cents on their roll of toilet paper. It'll be great to wipe the blood from their assholes when they get ****ed in the future.
I agree. I wouldn't put it on the businesses though.I don't expect or want the government to step in, however. I would prefer to see peopel stop ****ing themselves through their shortsighted focus on immediate gratification. I think this is one of the biggest problems in American society today. That need for immediate gratification and a comlete and total inability to withold gratification. We have become a shortsighted nation that demands immediate results, no matter how bad it ****s the future up.
And government feeding it by forcing banks to make loans to people that shouldn't have been given loans.Why is their a credit crisis? Immediate gratification.
Spineless Republicans having not the sack to fight the media aligned largely against them. That's why Reagan was great. That's why the NJ Gov. seems great. Jan Brewer. Palin. Bachmann.Why do we have an incompetant and corruptgovernemnt? Immediate gratification.
No. To compete. It is difficult to compete with cheap labor when your government has piled on burdens.Why are corporations sending jobs to other countries? Immediate gratification.
True.Just because I can buy a bunch of **** I don't really need cheaply at walmart doesn't mean I should buy a bunch of **** I don't need cheaply at walmart.
Can't answer that one for ya, but Wal Mart emerged from Bentonville, AR servicing towns of 5,000 or less. They did it by providing for their customers what they wanted, by pressing the distributors, by staying lean and cutting fat.If we really analyzed how much people save by buying things at walmart, how much of those savings would be on crap they didn't need in teh first place?
I see it still pisses you offIt took a couple of years for me to break my wife of the habit of coming home with crap we didn't need and telling me how much she "saved" on it because it was on sale. That's the walmart mentality in a nutshell.
I hear ya. Cheers.What I'm talking about is how I won't be party to it. I'd rather make short-term "sacrifices" for long term gains. It isn't charity. It's having a long-term outlook on life.
That's part of the reason why I'm working to enter a field that can't be outsourced.
Agree. Sometimes you don't need the best quality though.
Megastore have advantages over the Mom & Pop. In purchasing for example, the Mega's have not only buying power but individuals trained for specific products.
May I suggest a book, Made in America by Sam Walton. Sam Walton -Made in America
Well, that is part of the equation, but I've had no problem with products bought there, often what I'd buy elsewhere for less. With families with kids I can understand it especially. they have kids to cloth and feed and the kids are growing. Clothes in, clothes out.
Perhaps I've been spending too much time in Europe. Their customer service is non-existent, so when I head back home I'm always appreciative and notice a world of difference.
Tucker... man... I've never seen you like this.
I agree. I wouldn't put it on the businesses though.
And government feeding it by forcing banks to make loans to people that shouldn't have been given loans.
Spineless Republicans having not the sack to fight the media aligned largely against them. That's why Reagan was great. That's why the NJ Gov. seems great. Jan Brewer. Palin. Bachmann.
McCain had an easy target with Obama, but failed to hit him hard where he should have been hit hard.
He let the cult grow.
No. To compete. It is difficult to compete with cheap labor when your government has piled on burdens.
When unions have piled on burdens.
The immediate gratification came from socking it to businesses by both government and unions. They failed to look beyond their own greedy noses.
Now they cut it off.
Can't answer that one for ya, but Wal Mart emerged from Bentonville, AR servicing towns of 5,000 or less. They did it by providing for their customers what they wanted, by pressing the distributors, by staying lean and cutting fat.
I see it still pisses you off
You know, you could make millions revealing the secret of how you accomplished it!
It's as my girlfriend's pop said when his wife went into the store... ein tag ohne einkaufen ist ein verlorener tag... a day without shopping is a wasted day.
According to wikipedia, "Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or from which diverged."
I'm not saying that Smith is entirely wrong about mere descriptions of how economies behave, but it seems that you and other conservatives use his concept of the invisible hand as a dogmatic principle that the free market will always sort everything out for the best, as if government regulation is just "getting in the way" of some free market utopia.
You can't just use Smith's incomplete and archaic theories to justify economic ignorance.
You ask me how much a car will cost if there is no outsourcing?
But TANSTAAFL applies whether there is outsourcing or not.
Outsourcing overseas is not the panacea you seem to think it is.
Either we will pay a higher price for the car and have that money continue to circulate in our economy, or we pay a lower price and bleed that money into a rival economy. If it continues to circulate in our economy, we will have paid more for the car but the money will eventually come back to us like a rebate in the form of a more robust domestic economy with greater productivity and more opportunities locally. If we send the money to China then it's gone. Either way the same price is paid, the question is who profits from that purchase of a car? I say: let the American people profit. You say: Let multinational robber barons and foreign economies profit.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
What you're doing here, in psychological terms, is called "projection."
The only failed economic ideology I see is the de-regulatory Republican policies that got us into the mess we're in now.
I like this guy. My type of American.
Seems some Lakers fans were passing by the sign with gas and matches in the car.
That's basic supply and demand.
Well, then it's safe for me to assume that you're a Marxist.
Spare me the libertarian balderdash, please.
I hear this all the time but I've yet to hear a specific explanation of how "deregulation" lead to the financial crisis. Would you please explain what specific deregulatory policies lead to the collapse of the housing and financial sectors?
Ignorant and misinformed?
The LAPD is searching for the individuals related to arson after the Lakers win.Why would Jack Nicholson be hanging out in some Missouri ****hole?
LOL... if that's what you want to call him... fine.
The guy is OK with me.
The LAPD is searching for the individuals related to arson after the Lakers win.
They have a vid and are asking help from the community to identify them. See the connect? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink?
.
the only way for the USA to remain competitive in the long term is to sacrifice a little short term pseudo-savings to keep money circulating in the economy. In the end it's actually costing us less to pay more for that car up front.
What you're saying about economic protectionism being a failed policy was sound dogma about five years ago, my friend, but everybody with eyes to see have given up on your foolishness.
Do you have a link to all these economists who are seeing the light and advocating for protectionism as a beneficial economic policy?
Funny you should ask. That's just from doing a news search on "protectionism."
I'm not advocating a return to Smoot Hawley, but we need to keep our money here in the USA. You can hurl epithets around as much as you like, but the handwriting is on the wall, it's time for this economy to stop hemorrhaging jobs.
I asked you for links to economists who were saying that they had changed their minds and decided that protectionism was a beneficial economic policy.
edit: Also, could you point out the "epithet" I used in my first post?
Bows sir you are the bomb.
1.) Protectionism is the cause in the European crises
2.) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/opinion/19sat1.html?_r=1&ref=protectionism_trade
3.) However I do think protectionism is the reason for this global resection
Everything I’ve just said applies only when the world is stuck in a liquidity trap; that’s where we are now, but it won’t be the normal situation. And if we go all protectionist, that will shatter the hard-won achievements of 70 years of trade negotiations — and it might take decades to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.
You realize that he's arguing for protectionism, right?
Krugman acknowledges that in a very particular situation, a very particular type of protectionist policies could theoretically be a boon to economic growth.
I'm still waiting for a shred of evidence that economists are changing their minds about the values of free trade. If you want to play the quote game
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?