Milwaukee County Judge Dugan indicted, grand jury meets Tuesday

[Absentglare]

Why should a sitting judge be given special treatment?

The point of being arrested and posting bail is to make sure that someone shows up to court. She’s not a flight risk, for the same reason Trump was not a flight risk.

The special treatment is arresting her and taking photos instead of serving her to appear in court.

Traitor Trump’s charges were based on years of fraudulent state tax filings that took nearly 5 years of investigations before the DA moved forward to charge.

Before then, there was no premise to arrest him on, entirely unlike in Dugan’s case where alleged illegal actions all took place over just a couple of hours, and in front of numerous witnesses.

If you know my posting history, you know that I’m about as far from being a Traitor Trump supporter as they come.

My take on Dugan is based on being as objective as possible and applying unbiased critical thinking.

The arrest/charges can be both warranted and a public display by Traitor Trump’s MAGAt AG.

The facts of the case certainly do not demonstrate that she tried to prevent the arrest.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I did. I recommend you read my post again. Specifically the last paragraph where I explicitly stated that she should not have done what she did.

I did fully read and comprehend your post, including the last paragraph.

The reason I asked you to read the charging document is because it refutes significant elements that you got wrong, and I thought you’d be interested in knowing.

Judges have a responsibility, and significant power, to protect the integrity of their courts. ICE posting up outside of a courtroom is a new tactic, in violation of all precedent. It's a deliberate attack on the ability of those courts to function.

Milwaukee County is not a “sanctuary county”, and does not have any local laws/ordinances, like in established sanctuary locations, to protect illegal migrants from arrest inside courthouses, so the FBI, DEA, and ICE agents in the courthouse that day had every right to be there to arrest Ruiz.

Also of significance, the Chief Judge explicitly stated that the various law enforcement agents were permitted to wait for and make arrests in public spaces throughout the courthouse.

If the information contained in the sworn affidavit is true/accurate; it very much does look like Dugan deliberately interfered with the proper lawful arrest of Ruiz.

 

[Pyrite]

I did fully read and comprehend your post, including the last paragraph.

The reason I asked you to read the charging document is because it refutes significant elements that you got wrong, and I thought you’d be interested in knowing.

Milwaukee County is not a “sanctuary county”, and does not have any local laws/ordinances, like in established sanctuary locations, to protect illegal migrants from arrest inside courthouses, so the FBI, DEA, and ICE agents in the courthouse that day had every right to be there to arrest Ruiz.

Also of significance, the Chief Judge explicitly stated that the various law enforcement agents were permitted to wait for and make arrests in public spaces throughout the courthouse.

If the information contained in the sworn affidavit is true/accurate; it very much does look like Dugan deliberately interfered with the proper lawful arrest of Ruiz.

The Chief Judge made that determination because Judge Dugan had taken some of the waiting ICE agents to a meeting with her superior.

This action (by Judge Dugan) doesn't seem to indicate an intent to obstruct the arrest of the defendant.

 

[Absentglare]

No. If they are illegally here deporting them is what should happen.

Blames them? For what?

For all kinds of horrible shit. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the dogs.

When an undocumented immigrant commits a crime, they keep repeating it to amplify their scapegoating.

Trump lies and exaggerates to blame them for taking over our country, invading, poisoning our blood, and he even dehumanizes them.

 

[Hello My Son]

That’s not what I said, that’s not even what I implied.

Yes it is. You think that everything you don't like is exactly like Nazi Germany simply because you declare it to be so out of thin air. It's silly, and it's nonsense, but you post it anyway.

Hence why it's hilarious!

I explained that intimidating judges to come down hard on an “undesirable” target group, a scapegoat, is something that Nazis and Trump have in common. I cited multiple sources on that.

You explained a nonsensical argument with a completely false premise. The judge was arrested for crimes. A grand jury constructed of her peers agreed with the charges, which means she is now proceeding to trial, where she will receive more due process.

Not only is this NOT intimidation, it's also NOTHING like Nazi Germany, where there would've been no grand jury, no due process, no trial, no representation of her peers in society, and likely no public announcement of her arrest and charges. She would've just been disappeared.

Now that you mention it, the way that Dugan is being treated as an accused criminal is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how she would've been treated in Nazi Germany.

You didn’t have ANY fact or argument to dispute that. You just tried to dismiss it.

Yes, because it's hilariously silly and not grounded in any reason or evidence whatsoever. Lazily comparing everything to Naziism without any actual evidence doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. It deserves to be mocked and laughed at. Therefore, I gave you exactly the response that your post deserved. You're welcome.

You failed to challenge my view in literally any meaningful way.

There you go again with pretending that you cannot possibly be wrong.

That’s also not what I said.

So you believe posting so critically of Trump is a brave act on your part? Do you believe that criticizing this so-called fascist dictator could get you into any kind of trouble, and are you bravely staring down the authoritarian regime by making these posts?

 

[Hello My Son]

The Chief Judge made that determination because Judge Dugan had taken some of the waiting ICE agents to a meeting with her superior.

This action (by Judge Dugan) doesn't seem to indicate an intent to obstruct the arrest of the defendant.

I'm completely shocked that you also didn't know about other key details in the case. SO SHOCKED!

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The point of being arrested and posting bail is to make sure that someone shows up to court. She’s not a flight risk, for the same reason Trump was not a flight risk.

The point of arrest also includes bringing the suspect into court to inform them of the charges being placed.

The special treatment is arresting her and taking photos instead of serving her to appear in court.

Dugan had a court appearance because that’s the prescribed process.

The facts of the case certainly do not demonstrate that she tried to prevent the arrest.

The facts will be determined in the courtroom, if it goes that far.

 

[Pyrite]

For all kinds of horrible shit. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the dogs.

When an undocumented immigrant commits a crime, they keep repeating it to amplify their scapegoating.

Trump lies and exaggerates to blame them for taking over our country, invading, poisoning our blood, and he even dehumanizes them.

Post #254


I think vance has gone so far as to claim that lying in order to make a point is acceptable.

 

[maxparrish]

Lots of avoidance. Still no verification in any of your posts that you've done your basic research on the topic rather than expecting everyone else to do the intellectual work for you.

I am not surprised.

I read one of your links, that one alone is sufficient proof that if the illegal arrest was a criminal arrest, and the judge obstructed in the manner alleged she did violate the law. And I also discovered that she has since been criminally indicted by a federal grand jury.

An arrest may be made for probable cause, with or without a grand jury. It appears to me that the reason it went to the grand jury after the fact was a matter of optics, public confirmation that there was probable cause.

The illegal was in her court for misdemeanor assault, but the agents were at the courthouse to arrest him for US re-entry after he had already been deported once. The second time pretty much means he was also going to be arrested, and was, on a criminal, not civil, charge.

I don't agree with many here who complain based on "what about-ism" or sympathy for the illegal or the judge. Being an independent I am not beholden to a party, both of whom have figures (Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump) who should have faced trial and convicted on specific federal statutes. That said, I am equally tired of the many years of the executive branch also ignoring immigration law and a court system that punts o blocks this issue.

IF valid and the feds get a conviction, it will be good optics for Trump and communicate to others that illegal immigration is being taken seriously. If the feds don't get a conviction, she becomes an example of Trump's autocratic over-reach.

We shall see.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The Chief Judge made that determination because Judge Dugan had taken some of the waiting ICE agents to a meeting with her superior.

Dugan sent the agents to talk to the Chief Judge because she didn’t believe they should be allowed to wait outside her courtroom to arrest Ruiz.

The Chief Judge said otherwise.

This action (by Judge Dugan) doesn't seem to indicate an intent to obstruct the arrest of the defendant.

After reading the charging document, it appears to me that Dugan is in the wrong.

We’ll have to wait to see what happens.

 

[Pyrite]

Dugan sent the agents to talk to the Chief Judge because she didn’t believe they should be allowed to wait outside her courtroom to arrest Ruiz.

The Chief Judge said otherwise.

After reading the charging document, it appears to me that Dugan is in the wrong.

We’ll have to wait to see what happens.

She still sent/took them. That's the point. There would have been no determination from the Chief Judge had Dugan not sought his counsel. This action in and of itself indicates to me a lack of intent to obstruct.

As for the charging document: At this point, I have little faith in the veracity of claims made by or on behalf of the trump Administration/Executive Branch/DOJ (!). I do not say this lightly. Moreover, I consider this a very sad, very alarming reality.

 

[Hello My Son]

I read one of your links, that one alone is sufficient proof that if the illegal was a criminal arrest, and the judge obstructed in the manner alleged he did violate the law. And I also discovered that she has since been indicted by a federal grand jury.

An arrest may be made for probable cause, with or without a grand jury. It appears to me that the reason it went to the grand jury after the fact was a matter of optics, public confirmation that there was probable cause.

The illegal was in her court for misdemeanor assault, but the agents were at the courthouse to arrest him for re-entry after he had already been deported once. The second time pretty much means he was also going to be arrested on criminal, not civil, charge.

I don't agree with many here who complain based on "what about-ism" or sympathy for the illegal or the judge. Being an independent I am not beholden to party, both of home have figures (Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump) who should have faced trial and convicted on specific federal statutes. That said, I am equally tired of the many years of the executive branch also ignoring immigration law and a court system that punts or this issue.

IF valid and the feds get a conviction, it will be good optics and communicate to others that illegal immigration is being taken seriously. If the feds don't get a conviction, she becomes an example of Trump's over-reach.

We shall see.

Yes, agreed. It's a very straightforward case. And I am actually anti-party myself.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

She does have a shaky defense. I do not believe it will affect the ruling to a great degree, but judges in the past have not had ICE agents in their courtrooms. There is a relative unknown for them in this case that she could argue, but I suspect the response will be that she has worked with other law enforcement officers and should know not to obstruct their duties.

To be clear, the agents were waiting outside the courtroom.

 

[Pyrite]

The point of being arrested and posting bail is to make sure that someone shows up to court. She’s not a flight risk, for the same reason Trump was not a flight risk.

Yes, this is a show of power. And intimidation.

The special treatment is arresting her and taking photos instead of serving her to appear in court.

I wonder whether a male judge would have been accorded the same humiliating treatment.

The facts of the case certainly do not demonstrate that she tried to prevent the arrest.

 

[Plasmaball]

She “screwed up”? She endangered many with her “screw up”. No need to twist what she did, there are witnesses to what actually occurred. And they gave statements. And she has been indicted. As she should be. She can plead her case as others before her court have done.

Oh boy its fantasy time

 

[Plasmaball]

I want her held accountable for her actions, which it appears she will be. I have no interest in getting into a pissing match with you about a verdict that has yet to take place. She was indicted, as she should have been. She will get her day in court just as many who have come before her in a courtroom.

Now you want justice. How amusing

 

[RaleBulgarian]

She still sent/took them. That's the point. There would have been no determination from the Chief Judge had Dugan not sought his counsel.

The agents were not going to leave the courthouse on Dugan’s order because she doesn’t control the courthouse.

The Chief Judge does, and he told the agents they could wait in public spaces to make arrests.

It’s important to know that while agents were in the Chief Judge’s office, Dugan went back into her courtroom, pushed Ruiz’s scheduled appearance up on the docket, called his attorney to the bench, adjourned his case for the day, and personally led Ruiz and his attorney to an inner corridor used for courtroom employees in order to evade arrest.

Later that morning, the state’s attorney, victims, and witnesses for Ruiz’s hearing were surprised to find out that Dugan had pushed Ruiz’s case up without notifying them.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

As for the charging document: At this point, I have little faith in the veracity of claims made by or on behalf of the trump Administration/Executive Branch/DOJ (!). I do not say this lightly. Moreover, I consider this a very sad, very alarming reality.

Sorry, I must’ve missed this ^ part of your post.

Nowadays, I only believe half of what I see, and none of what I hear.

We’ll see what happens when it happens.

 

[Pyrite]

The agents were not going to leave the courthouse on Dugan’s order because she doesn’t control the courthouse.

The Chief Judge does, and he told the agents they could wait in public spaces to make arrests.

It’s important to know that while agents were in the Chief Judge’s office, Dugan went back into her courtroom, pushed Ruiz’s scheduled appearance up on the docket, called his attorney to the bench, adjourned his case for the day, and personally led Ruiz and his attorney to an inner corridor used for courtroom employees in order to evade arrest.

Later that morning, the state’s attorney, victims, and witnesses for Ruiz’s hearing were surprised to find out that Dugan had pushed Ruiz’s case up without notifying them.

Pay attention: I am not disputing what the Chief Judge said.

What I've done is point out the fact it was DUGAN who took or sent them there. And that this action taken by Dugan seems to me to indicate a lack of intent to obstruct.

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@Absentglare in Post #251 has made good points:

The point of being arrested and posting bail is to make sure that someone shows up to court. She’s not a flight risk, for the same reason Trump was not a flight risk.

The special treatment is arresting her and taking photos instead of serving her to appear in court.

The facts of the case certainly do not demonstrate that she tried to prevent the arrest.

Imo, the trump administration is unnecessarily (to say the least) attacking this judge because she's a female and because she stood up to him, in a very limited way.

This also serves to send a very direct warning to the judiciary (whom trump has been verbally assailing and threatening): knuckle under or else.

 

[CLAX1911]

For all kinds of horrible shit. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the dogs.

Still it are you talking about the Haitians in Ohio

When an undocumented immigrant commits a crime, they keep repeating it to amplify their scapegoating.

No scapegoated is when you accuse someone of a crime they didn't commit.

Trump lies and exaggerates to blame them for taking over our country, invading, poisoning our blood, and he even dehumanizes them.

I think it's you thinking this dehumanized them.

 

[SavannahMann]

I do so love the RW. An Indictment against Trump. LAWFARE! An indictment against anyone else. Guilty. Don’t even need a trial!

 

[Pyrite]

Well, I am finding that the trouble13-shaped hole in my heart is quickly being filled.

Post #236

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This really is great.

Thanks again.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

From Wiki:

There is an ongoing migrant crisis in North America concerning the illegal migration of people into the United States across the Mexico-United States border. U.S. Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump both referred to surges in migrants at the border as a "crisis" during their tenure.[4] Following a decline in migrants crossing the border during the first Trump administration, illegal border crossings surged during the Biden administration, with over 7.2 million migrants encountered between January 2021 and January 2024, not counting gotaways.[5][6] Experts have attributed the increase in attempted crossings to pent-up demand, changes in global migration patterns, a change of perceptions by migrants about the ease of crossing, and incentives for migrants to try to cross again after Title 42 expulsions.[7][8][9] The number of migrants sent back increased as a result, though the percentage sent back decreased.[5] Border apprehensions fell back to 2020 levels in mid-2024.[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico–United_States_border_crisis

Of course not. Deport away - with due process.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Good God, dude.

Answer the question.

 

[Hello My Son]

Answer the question.

Answer the question that wasn't even posed to her?