Milwaukee County Judge Dugan indicted, grand jury meets Tuesday

[Elmo]

Save your ridiculous frantic rants for others.

You have no more/better understanding than I do and, in fact, have been proven wrong by myself before, more than once.

Dugan’s arrest and indictment are not a harbinger of a future Gilead.

On its own, this incident wouldn't be a harbinger. But it's a part of a very clear pattern of degradation of our system of justice. Due process rights being ignored, law firms being targeted for purely political reasons, stifling political speech in schools, and making a very public show of arresting judges that step out of line.

Incidents like this are rare. It would have been entirely appropriate to have her turn herself in, without a media circus. They CHOSE to do it differently, at the courthouse. To send a message of intimidation, which fits perfectly with the rest of the pattern.

 

[Pyrite]

If you've followed my posts over the past weeks, you know I agree with you about the President and his administration. I still believe it is important for leaders in our judicial system to stay within the framework of the law. I would argue it is even more imperative that they do so, especially given that President Trump is not. The last thing we need is more reason for him and his supporters to believe judges are corrupt and they do not need to follow the law as a result.

We've seen that following the law scrupulously changes NOTHING re the lawless trump regime. Nor does it affect his cult's affinity for his lawlessness.

MAGA believes whatever it is told by GOPer politicos, including trump, and by GOPer propaganda outlets. Continuing to obey every single damn rule isn't going to make MAGA respect the law or believe it applies to them and to their own. The cult is way beyond being retrieved, being de-programmed, by the behavior of non-cult members.

Sacrificing a female judge who didn't curtsey and smile sweetly and meekly hand over the defendant to the waiting / loitering ICE agents isn't going to do a damn thing but further embolden trump and his authoritarian thugs in the knowledge they can do whatever they want to the rest of us.

In fact, it will make things worse, because trump and MAGA will be told, by us, yet again, that, while they are above the law, we, however, are bound to it in every single little line item - and even when it doesn't apply.

That even the judiciary is fair game to trump and to MAGA. (In case no one has been paying attention, trump has been conducting a vicious propaganda campaign against the judiciary for many years now. Where's the outrage or even concern over trump's non-ceasing campaign of destroying respect for the law, for the judiciary?)

 

[Xilnik]

Recommend that you read the charging document linked in my post #160.

It may affect your view.

She does have a shaky defense. I do not believe it will affect the ruling to a great degree, but judges in the past have not had ICE agents in their courtrooms. There is a relative unknown for them in this case that she could argue, but I suspect the response will be that she has worked with other law enforcement officers and should know not to obstruct their duties.

 

[anatta]

You are accusing Holder of using the justice Dept to go after political enemies.

Trump is using the Justice Dept to destroy the judicuary.

Even given your whataboutism's rationale, Trump's attacks are much more profound.

that's your opinion. I completely disagree . However Holder's fascist seizure of journalists' phone records is a fact

 

[Elmo]

Recommend you read the attached link to the federal charging document (including sworn affidavit) in my post #160), then tell me if you still think Judge Dugan was in the right.

I did. I recommend you read my post again. Specifically the last paragraph where I explicitly stated that she should not have done what she did.

 

[Xilnik]

We've seen that following the law scrupulously changes NOTHING re the lawless trump regime. Nor does it affect his cult's affinity for his lawlessness.

MAGA believes whatever it is told by GOPer politicos, including trump, and by GOPer propaganda outlets. Continuing to obey every single damn rule isn't going to make MAGA respect the law or believe it applies to them and to their own. The cult is way beyond being retrieved, being de-programmed, by the behavior of non-cult members.

Sacrificing a female judge who didn't curtsey and smile sweetly and meekly hand over the defendant to the waiting / loitering ICE agents isn't going to do a damn thing but further embolden trump and his authoritarian thugs in the knowledge they can do whatever they want to the rest of us.

That even the judiciary is fair game to trump and to MAGA. (In case no one has been paying attention, trump has been conducting a vicious propaganda campaign against the judiciary for many years now. Where's the outrage over that?)

I never believe stooping to what other people are doing wrong is the solution. Too many in our society behave that way. We see it in traffic, at grocery stores, etc. People get jaded because others treat them poorly, and they then start behaving the same way. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

 

[Hello My Son]

So far as I know, you have no JD.

So far as I know, you have not proved that the what you've typed is law. Or that the judge violated any law. (Your word isn't good enough.)

So far as I know, you've not proved that handcuffing and arresting a judge is normal procedure for judges accused of obstruction.

Concealing a person from arrest and obstruction of proceedings are indeed crimes.

 

[Pyrite]

Concealing a person from arrest and obstruction of proceedings are indeed crimes.

Your word isn't good enough.

Your word for what is law, your word for the facts about what the judge did, aren't good enough.

 

[Felis Leo]

That was a horrible thing to say, Felis. This isn't you.

Josie, nota bene said without qualification how she was "delighted by [the Trump] Admin's enforcement of immigration law." When people are being sent to miserable foreign concentration camps, when American citizen children with Stage 4 cancer are being deported with Honduran parents, when otherwise-productive people from war-torn, crime-filled starving countries who have done nothing but contribute to our society are being deported en masse, it must be asked what exactly is there to be delighted by unless you enjoy the suffering of people most of whom whose only real crime was not being born here (or in some cases, being born here, but to the "wrong" parents)?

 

[Pyrite]

I never believe stooping to what other people are doing wrong is the solution. Too many in our society behave that way. We see it in traffic, at grocery stores, etc. People get jaded because others treat them poorly, and they then start behaving the same way. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

I haven't said we should become lawless, like trump and his administration, have I?

I haven't said we should disobey laws, like trump and his administration, have I?

I have pointed out what is obvious: our sacrificing this female judge on the altar of "MAGA says she broke laws and needs to be punished!" isn't going to achieve anything good and will have the opposite effect of emboldening the lawless trump and his cult.

 

[Hello My Son]

Methods of increasing control - Why the Nazis were able to stay in power - Higher History Revision - BBC Bitesize

For Higher History, learn the methods the Nazis used to control the German population and maintain power.

www.bbc.co.uk

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/first-letter-to-all-judges

Cool story.

Doesn't have anything to do with judges breaking the law and getting arrested for it.

 

[Felis Leo]

Methods of increasing control - Why the Nazis were able to stay in power - Higher History Revision - BBC Bitesize

For Higher History, learn the methods the Nazis used to control the German population and maintain power.

www.bbc.co.uk

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/first-letter-to-all-judges

Don't waste your energy, Absentglare. Best to keep your powder dry.

 

[Xilnik]

I haven't said we should become lawless, like trump and his administration, have I?

I haven't said we should disobey laws, like trump and his administration, have I?

I have pointed out what is obvious: our sacrificing this female judge on the altar of "MAGA says she broke laws and needs to be punished!" isn't going to achieve anything good and will have the opposite effect of emboldening the lawless trump and MAGA.

I inferred that was what you were implying, so that was obviously my mistake. To your last point, I think it's worse if she is found guilty but receives a lax sentence. We're unfortunately at a point where there is no good solution because I do agree her being punished will also potentially embolden worse behavior than the behavior already occurring. I also think her getting no punishment leads to the same situation.

In hindsight, the best course of action would have been for her to challenge this through legal channels in federal court rather than taking matters into her own hands.

 

[Pyrite]

I inferred that was what you were implying, so that was obviously my mistake. To your last point, I think it's worse if she is found guilty but receives a lax sentence. We're unfortunately at a point where there is no good solution because I do agree her being punished will also potentially embolden worse behavior than the behavior already occurring. I also think her getting no punishment leads to the same situation.

In hindsight, the best course of action would have been for her to challenge this through legal channels in federal court rather than taking matters into her own hands.

I don't agree, but I see your point of view.

 

[Hello My Son]

Your word isn't good enough.

Your word for what is law, your word for the facts about what the judge did, aren't good enough.

Lol, those are the exact crimes that the judge is charged with committing. It isn't my word. They're literal crimes.

How do you not know this if you've done even the most basic amount of research on this topic?

Federal Crime of Concealing Person from Arrest – 18 U.S.C. § 1071
Obstruction Of Pending Proceeding -- 18 U.S.C. 1505

 

[Pyrite]

I haven't said we should become lawless, like trump and his administration, have I?

I haven't said we should disobey laws, like trump and his administration, have I?

I have pointed out what is obvious: our sacrificing this female judge on the altar of "MAGA says she broke laws and needs to be punished!" isn't going to achieve anything good and will have the opposite effect of emboldening the lawless trump and his cult.

Post #210


We know that appeasement of tyrants doesn't work. That it has the opposite effect.

We also know that appeasement of tyrants can have the effect of disheartening, of demoralizing, those who would stand up to them.

 

[Pyrite]

Lol, those are the exact crimes that the judge is charged with committing. It isn't my word. They're literal crimes.

How do you not know this if you've done even the most basic amount of research on this topic?

Federal Crime of Concealing Person from Arrest – 18 U.S.C. § 1071
Obstruction Of Pending Proceeding -- 18 U.S.C. 1505

Post #215


Not only is your word not good enough, there's also this maxim:

I don't do your work. If you want to try to prove something, you copy and paste excerpts from credible sources to which you post the links.

First you prove your claims about the laws she is supposed to have violated.

Then you detail exactly what actions of hers violated the laws and you prove that she took those actions.

 

[Hello My Son]

Don't waste your energy, Absentglare. Best to keep your powder dry.

It's funny that you guys STILL think it's a persuasive argument to hysterically compare everything you don't like to Nazi Germany.

 

[Absentglare]

You know, there is a “Conspiracy Theory” subforum for this kind of hysterical paranoia…

I see that you are desperate to deny the reality that there are large organizations working in concert with Trump to usurp the will of the American public.

 

[Pyrite]

It's funny that you guys STILL think it's a persuasive argument to hysterically compare everything you don't like to Nazi Germany.

lol

 

[Absentglare]

Cool story.

Doesn't have anything to do with judges breaking the law and getting arrested for it.

Fascism uses a pattern of intimidation to coerce everyone into compliance through the innate human desire for self-preservation.

The best Nazis were the ones who denied the intimidation, who gaslit those who were sounding alarms until it was too late.

 

[Absentglare]

It's funny that you guys STILL think it's a persuasive argument to hysterically compare everything you don't like to Nazi Germany.

I’m not laughing and it’s sad that you think I’m trying to persuade you. I’m well aware how desperate folks are to deny the reality, but maybe you should blame your leaders who act like Nazis for these cognitively painful comparisons rather than shooting me, the messenger.

 

[Pyrite]

Methods of increasing control - Why the Nazis were able to stay in power - Higher History Revision - BBC Bitesize

For Higher History, learn the methods the Nazis used to control the German population and maintain power.

www.bbc.co.uk

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/first-letter-to-all-judges

Post #195

Don't waste your energy, Absentglare. Best to keep your powder dry.

Post #212


Far too many of us - of all political persuasions - simply do not want to see much the less acknowledge the similarities.

 

[Hello My Son]

Post #215


Not only is your word not good enough, there's also this maxim:

I don't do your work. If you want to try to prove something, you copy and paste excerpts from credible sources to which you post the links.

First you prove your claims about the laws she is supposed to have violated.

Then you detail exactly what actions of hers violated the laws and you prove that she took those actions.

Lol...why would you need to click those links to prove that crimes indeed exist for what she did? They clearly showed the names of the crimes that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed before I showed you.

I don't do your work for you. If you don't understand the law enough to even know the names of the crimes for which Dugan is charged, then you should not be making posts in which you pretend to know what's going on in this case.

Making informed posts requires you to understand fundamental parts of the thread topic. Nobody else can do that for you. If you choose to remain ignorant about these basic facts, that's your prerogative, but don't pretend like it's someone else's job to provide you with the most basic details of the case. Intellectually lazy posting habits such as what you've done here will get you nowhere.

Good luck. I hope you'll choose to do your due diligence from this point forward.

 

[Pyrite]

Lol...why would you need to click those links to prove that crimes indeed exist for what she did? They clearly showed the names of the crimes that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed before I showed you.

I don't do your work for you. If you don't understand the law enough to even know the names of the crimes for which Dugan is charged, then you should not be making posts in which you pretend to know what's going on in this case.

Making informed posts requires you to understand fundamental parts of the thread topic. Nobody else can do that for you. If you choose to remain ignorant about these basic facts, that's your prerogative, but don't pretend like it's someone else's job to provide you with the most basic details of the case. Intellectually lazy posting habits such as what you've done here will get you nowhere.

Good luck. I hope you'll choose to do your due diligence from this point forward.

Lots of words, still no verification of your claims about laws that the judge is supposed to have violated - and the ways in which she broke the laws.

I am not surprised.

Good luck.