Miley Circus at it again

[EdwinWillers]

She's too young to be so jaded...what's she going to be like five years from now?

Let's hope it's not like this:

 

[radcen]

Yup, but she's 23. She's a grown woman. And yes, granted, Miley Cyrus is 20, and is also grown, but the behavior between the two of them is hardly comparable. At least Swift is keeping her shenanigans behind closed doors.

Taylor Swift shows signs of Borderline Personality Disorder and it comes out in her relationships and how she deals with them. Miley Cyrus is actually seemingly pretty normal in her relationships. Miley's just... yeah... *smh*.

 

[radcen]

Personally, I don't find Miley to be all that attractive, let alone gorgeous. She's too lanky for my tastes.

She was better with long hair, though, in a relative sense.

I do think Taylor Swift is attractive, in spite of her lankiness. She carries it better, I think. Exception to my rule, apparently.

 

[sangha]

I think they're different beasties. Wah-Wah is an effect while Auto-tune is largely used to correct performance problems - problems that vocalist should be able to fix themselves.

That's not true. Auto-tune can be used as an effect.

 

[Gipper]

I've never really seen anything bad about Taylor Swift, other than if you date her, you run a serious risk of her ridiculing you in song.

She reminds me of She-bow...the girl who's saving herself for marriage.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Buffoonish? Not to her millions of fans.

But it was a clear attempt to move beyond her fan base of angsty pre-teens

Maybe to adults who aren't in the thrall of pop culture, but those people are not her targeted audience.

Everyone besides the fanboys who grew up with her simply laughed. This was true of people into pop music and culture, the people who shape the industry, and the general public. And being it's a clear attempt on her part, or the people backing her career to escape that fan base and expand beyond that fan base, it was a total failure.

And "contrived"? It's pop music. It's all contrived.

And all actors are acting. But what makes the difference between good acting and bad acting is the ability to sell the part. Here there was no ability to sell the part ....

 

[rocket88]

That's not true. Auto-tune can be used as an effect.

It can be, and that's the only time I think it's acceptable. Other than that, you're just covering for the fact that someone can't sing it right.

 

[Gaius46]

That's not true. Auto-tune can be used as an effect.

I can't see the YouTube video on my iPad. Will have to wait until later tonight.

I don't doubt that it can be used artistically as an effect, though like the Wah-Wah it probably has limited applicability. Its initial use was to fix less than stellar vocals and I get the sense, from reading recording engineers' opinions on the subject, that's still its predominant use.

 

[sangha]

But it was a clear attempt to move beyond her fan base of angsty pre-teens



Everyone besides the fanboys who grew up with her simply laughed. This was true of people into pop music and culture, the people who shape the industry, and the general public. And being it's a clear attempt on her part, or the people backing her career to escape that fan base and expand beyond that fan base, it was a total failure.



And all actors are acting. But what makes the difference between good acting and bad acting is the ability to sell the part. Here there was no ability to sell the part ....

She has a new fan base as well as several top-selling songs now. It is demented to call that "a total failure"

And as to her acting skills, it looks like millions of people, including yourself, are buying the idea that her public persona is an accurate representation of who she is. :lamo

 

[sangha]

It can be, and that's the only time I think it's acceptable. Other than that, you're just covering for the fact that someone can't sing it right.

Me? Who am I covering for?

 

[sangha]

I can't see the YouTube video on my iPad. Will have to wait until later tonight.

I don't doubt that it can be used artistically as an effect, though like the Wah-Wah it probably has limited applicability. Its initial use was to fix less than stellar vocals and I get the sense, from reading recording engineers' opinions on the subject, that's still its predominant use.

Yes, like most similar technologies, it has limited application at first. But like all new technologies, artists find new ways to use them.

 

[Hard Truth]

After all the outrageous behavior she's going to wind up poor and living on the streets just like all the other outrageous females in show biz that preceded her: Cher, Courtney Love, Madonna, Christina Aguilar, Britanny, Paris Hilton.....

 

[rocket88]

Me? Who am I covering for?

Not you, but the generic "you." As in the person using auto-tune.

 

[rocket88]

I can't see the YouTube video on my iPad. Will have to wait until later tonight.

I don't doubt that it can be used artistically as an effect, though like the Wah-Wah it probably has limited applicability. Its initial use was to fix less than stellar vocals and I get the sense, from reading recording engineers' opinions on the subject, that's still its predominant use.

It is, and that's extremely unfortunate. As an amateur engineer/producer, I would never use auto-tune unless it's unavoidable or as an effect.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

She has a new fan base as well as several top-selling songs now. It is demented to call that "a total failure"

She does? She still seems saddled with the same fanbase she always had, that fan base is now simply older. Much like the Olson Twins, who went trough similar growing pains and attempts to shed their old image

And as to her acting skills

Why the intentional obtuseness? I was obviously drawing a comparison to what seperates good vs bad acting and successful contrived images vs failed ones in pop-entertainment. Not sure why you always ignore the obvious to try and score some totally meaningless point.

it looks like millions of people, including yourself, are buying the idea that her public persona is an accurate representation of who she is. :lamo

I did? Funny, being that my criticism was based on her adopting imagery that totally clashes with "who she is" and the fact that it was completely contrived and ill executed ...

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

After all the outrageous behavior she's going to wind up poor and living on the streets just like all the other outrageous females in show biz that preceded her: Cher, Courtney Love, Madonna, Christina Aguilar, Britanny, Paris Hilton.....

Well, there are plenty of failed flash in the pan pop stars, and then there are those with a lasting effect on the industry, and even some who have found long term success, but at the price of being used up by the industry. And while her prior well managed success will insulate her from the first catagory, I can't help to think we will see a long term crash and burn from Miley, ala spears

 

[Gaius46]

It is, and that's extremely unfortunate. As an amateur engineer/producer, I would never use auto-tune unless it's unavoidable or as an effect.

I hear you. But I have to wonder about instrumentalists. I'm a bassist and guitarist and I've done more than one session where loads of time was spent punching in single notes because the originals were played less than perfectly. To my mind that's not all that different from using auto tune.

Personally I prefer playing it a bunch of times and taking the best take even if it's got warts. Perfect is sterile and uninteresting.

 

[rocket88]

I hear you. But I have to wonder about instrumentalists. I'm a bassist and guitarist and I've done more than one session where loads of time was spent punching in single notes because the originals were played less than perfectly. To my mind that's not all that different from using auto tune.

Personally I prefer playing it a bunch of times and taking the best take even if it's got warts. Perfect is sterile and uninteresting.

Me too, but even if you punch one note, it's better than autotuning it.

 

[sangha]

She does? She still seems saddled with the same fanbase she always had, that fan base is now simply older. Much like the Olson Twins, who went trough similar growing pains and attempts to shed their old image

That's possible. I can't say I'm an expert on who is listening and buying her stuff. But if they're new or just the same people grown up, the fact is she's a Big Deal, with several songs hitting the Top 10.

IOW, not a total failure. It's the opposite. She is successful.

Why the intentional obtuseness? I was obviously drawing a comparison to what seperates good vs bad acting and successful contrived images vs failed ones in pop-entertainment. Not sure why you always ignore the obvious to try and score some totally meaningless point.



I did? Funny, being that my criticism was based on her adopting imagery that totally clashes with "who she is" and the fact that it was completely contrived and ill executed ...

No obtuseness. The fact is that millions of people, including many who aren't her fans, have bought into the notion that the image she is projecting is a reflection of who she is.

Sure, it's not profound. It's not a work of art, but expecting her to produce a great work of art is like expecting the Royal Shakespeare Company to have David Hasselhopf star in its' next production.

It's pop music

 

[Fiddytree]

She does? She still seems saddled with the same fanbase she always had, that fan base is now simply older. Much like the Olson Twins, who went trough similar growing pains and attempts to shed their old image.

Yeah, I am pretty sure her "badass" persona isn't exactly gaining any punk fans or rock fans.

 

[sangha]

I hear you. But I have to wonder about instrumentalists. I'm a bassist and guitarist and I've done more than one session where loads of time was spent punching in single notes because the originals were played less than perfectly. To my mind that's not all that different from using auto tune.

Personally I prefer playing it a bunch of times and taking the best take even if it's got warts. Perfect is sterile and uninteresting.

Yes, some of the acts that we consider to be some of the greatest groups in the world spent gawdawful amounts of time recording and re-recording performances to get the perfect one. One notable group (ie The Rolling Stones) is known for flying in other great musicians to perform on their albums, uncredited.

 

[Gaius46]

Yes, some of the acts that we consider to be some of the greatest groups in the world spent gawdawful amounts of time recording and re-recording performances to get the perfect one. One notable group (ie The Rolling Stones) is known for flying in other great musicians to perform on their albums, uncredited.

Agreed. A drummer whose jazz band I occasionally sit in with played - uncredited - on several late 60s early 70s pop and rock hits because the bands' drummers couldn't cut it.

Nature of the beast I suppose given the money involved but I really don't like it.

 

[sangha]

Agreed. A drummer whose jazz band I occasionally sit in with played - uncredited - on several late 60s early 70s pop and rock hits because the bands' drummers couldn't cut it.

Nature of the beast I suppose given the money involved but I really don't like it.

I understand. I'm a big fan of live music, warts and all. I've been to literally thousands of performances

However, a recording is a different beast. It's going to get played over and over. It's going to outlive the band or musician and represent them and their music for years to come. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to want it to be perfect.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

That's possible. I can't say I'm an expert on who is listening and buying her stuff. But if they're new or just the same people grown up, the fact is she's a Big Deal, with several songs hitting the Top 10.

I never denied that. But clearly what she is attempting to do is branch out beyond her current fan base, and those attempts have not been successful

IOW, not a total failure. It's the opposite. She is successful.

No, in the context of what she is trying to achieve, it's been a failure. it's like R limbaugh trying to court liberals and failing, while retaining his current fans. While he has ongoing success with his current fans, his attempts to expand beyond that would be, get ready for it, "a failure" ...

No obtuseness.

yes, obtuseness, and a stratagy you commonly employ to try and gain some pathetic rhetorical victory.

The fact is that millions of people, including many who aren't her fans, have bought into the notion that the image she is projecting is a reflection of who she is.

No, they have seen her attempts as shallow, manufactured, and inept even within the context of pop culture ...

Sure, it's not profound. It's not a work of art, but expecting her to produce a great work of art is like expecting the Royal Shakespeare Company to have David Hasselhopf star in its' next production.

Again, the intentional obtuseness: no one was claiming she needed to produce a great work of art. What was being addresses the the distinction between a successfully contrived persona (madonna, Riyanna, Lady Gaga) and an unsuccessful one (miley).

It's pop music

Yeah, no ****, sherlock. Hence why my points have rested within the context of the pop-music industry

 

[sangha]

I never denied that. But clearly what she is attempting to do is branch out beyond her current fan base, and those attempts have not been successful

Actually, they have succeeded. She's selling more records than ever.

No, in the context of what she is trying to achieve, it's been a failure. it's like R limbaugh trying to court liberals and failing, while retaining his current fans. While he has ongoing success with his current fans, his attempts to expand beyond that would be, get ready for it, "a failure" ...

She's not trying to court liberals. She's trying to be a pop star, and she has succeeded

No, they have seen her attempts as shallow, manufactured, and inept even within the context of pop culture ...

Wrong again

Again, the intentional obtuseness: no one was claiming she needed to produce a great work of art. What was being addresses the the distinction between a successfully contrived persona (madonna, Riyanna, Lady Gaga) and an unsuccessful one (miley).


Yeah, no ****, sherlock. Hence why my points have rested within the context of the pop-music industry

And within the context of the pop-music industry, her efforts have been successful.