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Michael Moore - liberator or slanderer

Is Michael Moore a Hero or a Hypocrite?

  • Noble Hero

    Votes: 31 30.4%
  • Malicious Traitor

    Votes: 16 15.7%
  • Greedy Self-Serving Hypocrite

    Votes: 55 53.9%

  • Total voters
    102
Originally Posted by ludahai:
Except that all you do is dodge the points that others make. Not really a debate when all you are doing is playing dodge ball. If I want to play dodge ball, all I need to do is ask a few fourth graders at the school near my home.
You wanna talk about dodge ball? After I made this comment...
Quote:Originally Posted by Billo_Really:
As far as your concerned, I couldn't help but notice a few posts back the comment you made regarding Bush's statement on Taiwan and their right to govern themselves. In there, you said something about the "...US allowing..." whatever, I can't remember specifically, but more to the point, what the f___ makes you think the US has the right to go around the world telling other soveriegn nations what they can and cannot do in their own country". That's pretty sick, the mind that thinks we have the right to do this.
... about a post you made (and you know god-damn well what I was refering too), you say this...
Originally Posted by ludahai:
Why don't you actually QUOTE what I said! Of course, you don't want to do that because it will show that I said something quite different!
...instead of answering the issue I was raising. You want to talk about dodge ball? Let's talk about dodge ball. If it walks like a duck, and squawks like a duck...........answer the god-damn question! Your really getting a little quacky.
Originally Posted by ludahai:
The Taliban were harboring those who DID attack the United States. Under Article 51 of the UN Charter, the U.S. had EVERY RIGHT to attack. THat it freed nearly 25 million people from the tyranny of the Taliban makes it all the better.
You need to read the articles you quote. 51 states only 2 ways a country may attack another. The Taliban did not attack the US. If you want to go that route, why didn't we go into China or Russia during Vietnam?
Originally Posted by ludahai:
As for Iraq, the U.S. had authority from the Security Council to use all necessary means to make Iraq comply with UN Security Council resolutions. Saddam didn't comply, and he is now where he belonged. I will never forget the joy of people in Iraq when they were able to do something as simple as vote with a REAL choice rather than Saddam, Saddam, or Saddam.
The UN has already gone on record saying the US attack was not in the spirit of UN Resolutions 678 and 1441.
 
Sick'em Billo! ... er, I mean, let's uh act civil or at least pretend?

Anywho, I think this is still a MM thread. If so, then here is a link to two really hillarious interviews by a totally nutty canadian who calls himself "Nardwuar the Human Serviette". Yeah. And, MM is such a wit and a good sport too:


http://nardwuar.com/vs/michael_moore/
 
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Billo_Really said:
You wanna talk about dodge ball? After I made this comment...... about a post you made (and you know god-damn well what I was refering too), you say this......instead of answering the issue I was raising. You want to talk about dodge ball? Let's talk about dodge ball. If it walks like a duck, and squawks like a duck...........answer the god-damn question! Your really getting a little quacky.You need to read the articles you quote.

Since you are criticizing what I wrote in another post, why don't you actually quote it rather that give your twisted paraphrase of it. Of course you won't because it DOESN'T ACTUALLY SAY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY! THat's why! Still waiting on the Pantagraph!

51 states only 2 ways a country may attack another. The Taliban did not attack the US. If you want to go that route, why didn't we go into China or Russia during Vietnam?

Here is Article 51

United Nations Charter said:
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The U.S., as does any other nation-state, has the right to delf-defense. It doesn't mention "two ways" one may attack in self-defense. NOTHING ... SHALL IMPAIR the inherent right ... IF AN ARMED ATTACK OCCURS AGAIST A MEMBER OF THE UNITED NATIONS." What part of that don't you understand?

An armed attack was made against the United States. The Taliban was sheltering those who attacked the United States. The U.S. had the right to attack. Even the French agreed with that interpretation. Are you so ANTI-AMERICAN that you would deny the right of the United States to go after those who attacked the U.S. on 911? You are one sick, delusional dude.

The UN has already gone on record saying the US attack was not in the spirit of UN Resolutions 678 and 1441.

Cite the resolution that the UN supposedly went on record saying this.

U.N. Security Council Resolution 678:

Security Council Resolution 678 said:
1. Demands that Iraq comply fully with resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions, and decides, while maintaining all its decisions, to allow Iraq one final opportunity, as a pause of goodwil, to do so;

2. Authorizes Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements, as set forth in paragraph 1 above, the above-mentioned resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area;

3. Requests all States to provide appropriate support for the actions undertaken in pursuance of paragraph 2 of the present resolution;

Security Council Resolution 1441 said:
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

678 states that all necessary means are authorized if 678 or any subsequent relevant resolution is violated by Saddam. 1441 specifically notes that it is relevant to 678. Once Saddam violated 1441, and he did violate it, the authorization for all necessary means kicked in. There is no statement in the resolutions that military force was NOT to be one of those options.
 
Originally Posted by ludahai:
Bush has flatly said that there shall be no change in Taiwan's status without the consent of the Taiwanese people.
Here's your quote, dude. Now, answer my god-damn question or duck!......its dodge ball!
 
Originally Posted by ludahai:
678 states that all necessary means are authorized if 678 or any subsequent relevant resolution is violated by Saddam. 1441 specifically notes that it is relevant to 678. Once Saddam violated 1441, and he did violate it, the authorization for all necessary means kicked in. There is no statement in the resolutions that military force was NOT to be one of those options.
You just read what you want to read, don't you? I posted the link below if you got the stones to read on.

The Crime of Aggression

International Law is surprisingly clear and easy to understand on whether the Iraq war was lawful. First, war was abolished by the adoption of the UN Charter in 1947. Thereafter, contracting states entered into a compact. In return for giving up their right to wage war each vested the right to use force in the collective security provisions of chapter VII of the UN Charter. Second, Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter provides that:

"All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations".
This has been described by the International Court of Justice as a peremptory norm of International Law, from which states cannot derogate. Thus, the effect of articles 2 (3) and (4) is that the use of force can only be justified as expressly provided under the Charter, and only in situations where it is consistent with the UN's purposes. Third, there are two limited exceptions to the requirement not to use force. The first enshrined in Article 51, preserves states' rights to self-defense. As this was not an exception relied upon by the US or UK I need not dwell on it. The second is where the Security Council have authorized the use of force under Article 42 of the Charter. That is the only relevant debate here.

I can remind the Panel that a consensus of international lawyers did not accept that such an authorization existed here, or that the UK and US were entitled to revive Resolution 678 (November 1990) from the start of the first Gulf War. The UK and US argued that the wording of Resolution 1441 (8 November 2002) allowed them to rely on Security Council Resolution 678 as they were entitled to interpret Iraq's behavior post 1441 as constituting a further "material breach" of Resolution 678 (Article 1) in circumstances where Iraq had been given its "final opportunity" to disarm (Article 2) and was warned of the "serious consequences" of non-compliance (Article 13). This is referred to as the revival doctrine. Not surprisingly, that is not the way international law works post the UN Charter. If the Security Council wish to authorize force, they do so in clear terms, latterly using the phrase "all necessary means" or "all measures necessary"

One example of that consensus is a letter from 16 international law professors and teachers from the UK, which made headline news on March 7 2003. It warned that:

"Before military action can lawfully be undertaken against Iraq, the Security Council must have indicated its clearly expressed accent. It has not yet done so... A decision to undertake military action in Iraq without proper Security Council authorization will seriously undermine the international rule of law."
What I have done is to footnote to this paper all the relevant legal material so that you, the jury, may be satisfied that this war did not have legal authorization from the Security Council. The jury need to address the consequences of that? If there was no Security Council authorization does it necessarily mean that the war was illegal? If it was illegal, was it automatically a "crime of aggression" and thus a "crime against peace?"

Professor Philippe Sands tackled this question head on during an interview last Thursday for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. He said:

"...Most people now realize that the war on Iraq was illegal and under international law, an illegal war amounts to a crime of aggression"

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_WTI062405T.shtml

You can also google Kofi Annan's statements on Iraq if you want to see the official line from the UN.

Although I don't feel Bush has any say so in the matter, I do hope China backs off and respects Taiwan's independance.
 
Billo_Really said:
Here's your quote, dude. Now, answer my god-damn question or duck!......its dodge ball!

As for what Bush said, he is right. There will be no change in the status without the concent of the Taiwanese people. That is the morally correct position in this situation, though as I have said before, I wish he would go further and outright support Taiwan's independence. It is a far sight better than Clinton whose committment to freedom around the world was rather soft.

You still haven't mentioned anything about the Pantagraph. You have been hit by the ball and you are OUT!
 
Billo_Really said:
You just read what you want to read, don't you? I posted the link below if you got the stones to read on.



http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_WTI062405T.shtml

You can also google Kofi Annan's statements on Iraq if you want to see the official line from the UN.

Although I don't feel Bush has any say so in the matter, I do hope China backs off and respects Taiwan's independance.

:spin: :spin:

You initially said that the UN had gone on record as saying that the invasion of 678 and 1441, then you change to the opinion of international lawyers?!?!?

There is NO United Nations resolution that does as you say. Kofi Annan is little more than a spokesperson for the UN, and even then, the word of the Security Council is the law, and Kofi has to be at the beck and call of the Security Council. Being Kofi is like being President, but with little executive authority.

Now, please find me that UN Security Council resolution that states that the invasion was not compatable with the spirit of 678 and 1441, because UN Security Council resolutions (which I have cited) trump the opinion of interntional lawyers and Kofi posted onto a leftist website!

Nice you support Taiwan's rights as a sovereign nation. You get a couple of points in my book for that. Too bad you probably voted for Kerry who has a pro-China record about a kilometer long!
 
ludahai said:
:spin: :spin:

You initially said that the UN had gone on record as saying that the invasion of 678 and 1441, then you change to the opinion of international lawyers?!?!?

There is NO United Nations resolution that does as you say. Kofi Annan is little more than a spokesperson for the UN, and even then, the word of the Security Council is the law, and Kofi has to be at the beck and call of the Security Council. Being Kofi is like being President, but with little executive authority.

Now, please find me that UN Security Council resolution that states that the invasion was not compatable with the spirit of 678 and 1441, because UN Security Council resolutions (which I have cited) trump the opinion of interntional lawyers and Kofi posted onto a leftist website!

Nice you support Taiwan's rights as a sovereign nation. You get a couple of points in my book for that. Too bad you probably voted for Kerry who has a pro-China record about a kilometer long!

Billo can't find any sources unless they're from http://www.truthout.org.

I put the link there on purpose so YOU can go there and see for yourself what a liberal-hack website this place is...

Read some of the Op-Eds....These folks are buying tinfoil at bulk rate...
 
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The liberals whole entire agenda is soley based on pessimistic foundatons. Its been proven this by looking at all there different campaigns on events. Never you hear any good occuring anywhere. Its always about negative chain of events.
 
SKILMATIC said:
The liberals whole entire agenda is soley based on pessimistic foundatons. Its been proven this by looking at all there different campaigns on events. Never you hear any good occuring anywhere. Its always about negative chain of events.

Correct...The Liberal platform is to take a stand against their opponent's platform....whatever that may be...even if they agree with it...
 
SKILMATIC said:
The liberals whole entire agenda is soley based on pessimistic foundatons. Its been proven this by looking at all there different campaigns on events. Never you hear any good occuring anywhere. Its always about negative chain of events.
I think that could be said about the conservatives as well or any party/pundit/knee-jerk reactionary on either side of the fence whose got the pulpit of the moment and wants to claim that the sky is falling.
 
Why is it that I constantly hear how all liberals are this or all liberals are that, stop creating general opinions on liberals based on the evidence of a handful, and by the way the American Public are actually quite liberal on economic issues especially in regard to corporate power, which is one of Moores big talking points.

The point no-one ever makes about Moore is that Farenheit was by far his most politically partisan movie, and perhaps the reason it was so damning of Bush is because Bush has been a particularly awful President. The case against Bush stealing the election is incredibly strong, while the case for war in Iraq was not just weak, it was non-existent. Same goes for his plans to win the peace, meanwhile Bush's corporate sponsors are making out like bandits.

And where the f**k is Ken Lay? Bush's biggest single campaign contributor on trial and no media coverage, we need Michael Moore, or at least you do. We Brits got the full scoop on the election and Iraq from the BBC, perhaps the single greatest news outlet in history.

And how dare Fox News criticise the BBC for calling the perpetrators of 7/7 bombers. A terrorist can be anything; kidnapper guerilla, bomber, hijacker, but a bomber has bombed something. Meanwhile Fox call snipers, sharp shooters, suicide bombers homicide bombers and some Christian nut who blew up a few abortion clinics a "serial bomber". Fair and Balanced is a perfect description in my opinion...of the BBc.
 
freethought6t9 said:
Why is it that I constantly hear how all liberals are this or all liberals are that, stop creating general opinions on liberals based on the evidence of a handful, and by the way the American Public are actually quite liberal on economic issues especially in regard to corporate power, which is one of Moores big talking points.

The point no-one ever makes about Moore is that Farenheit was by far his most politically partisan movie, and perhaps the reason it was so damning of Bush is because Bush has been a particularly awful President. The case against Bush stealing the election is incredibly strong, while the case for war in Iraq was not just weak, it was non-existent. Same goes for his plans to win the peace, meanwhile Bush's corporate sponsors are making out like bandits.

And where the f**k is Ken Lay? Bush's biggest single campaign contributor on trial and no media coverage, we need Michael Moore, or at least you do. We Brits got the full scoop on the election and Iraq from the BBC, perhaps the single greatest news outlet in history.

And how dare Fox News criticise the BBC for calling the perpetrators of 7/7 bombers. A terrorist can be anything; kidnapper guerilla, bomber, hijacker, but a bomber has bombed something. Meanwhile Fox call snipers, sharp shooters, suicide bombers homicide bombers and some Christian nut who blew up a few abortion clinics a "serial bomber". Fair and Balanced is a perfect description in my opinion...of the BBc.

A)If Bush was such an awful President then Mickey "I-can't-see-my-toes" Moore wouldn't of had to use lies to get out his messge...the truth would done just fine..

B)If Mickey "Whomever-stole-the-last-doughnut-is-fired!" Moore DID do a truthful movie on GWB, it would've lasted about 12 minutes...That's why he had to throw out false claims about the Carlyle Group & Unocal as filler....

When the square peg doesn't fit into the round hole, Moore yells, "Get my hammer!"

As for the BBC being the greatest....I retort...

BBC chairman quits over Hutton

Davies is writing to the prime minister to resign
BBC chairman Gavyn Davies has resigned in the wake of Lord Hutton's criticisms of the corporation's reports.

He quit after Lord Hutton said the suggestion in BBC reports that the government "sexed up" its dossier on Iraq's weapons with unreliable intelligence was "unfounded".

Lord Hutton also criticised "defective" BBC editorial processes over defence correspondent Andrew Gilligan's broadcasts of the claims on the Today programme


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3434661.stm
 
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freethought6t9 said:
Why is it that I constantly hear how all liberals are this or all liberals are that, stop creating general opinions on liberals based on the evidence of a handful, and by the way the American Public are actually quite liberal on economic issues especially in regard to corporate power, which is one of Moores big talking points.

The point no-one ever makes about Moore is that Farenheit was by far his most politically partisan movie, and perhaps the reason it was so damning of Bush is because Bush has been a particularly awful President. The case against Bush stealing the election is incredibly strong, while the case for war in Iraq was not just weak, it was non-existent. Same goes for his plans to win the peace, meanwhile Bush's corporate sponsors are making out like bandits.

And where the f**k is Ken Lay? Bush's biggest single campaign contributor on trial and no media coverage, we need Michael Moore, or at least you do. We Brits got the full scoop on the election and Iraq from the BBC, perhaps the single greatest news outlet in history.

And how dare Fox News criticise the BBC for calling the perpetrators of 7/7 bombers. A terrorist can be anything; kidnapper guerilla, bomber, hijacker, but a bomber has bombed something. Meanwhile Fox call snipers, sharp shooters, suicide bombers homicide bombers and some Christian nut who blew up a few abortion clinics a "serial bomber". Fair and Balanced is a perfect description in my opinion...of the BBc.

You're absolutely right. If Liberals are X, then Conservatives are Y. You can point out any number of facts true or otherwise. It just doesn't help the debate move along.

As for Rupert's empire (fox being a key ingrediant), it's so skewed it's not even funny. In fact, the american public is so ill informed it's pathetic. How else can you explain GW in the white house? How else you can you explain our involvement in Iraq?

BBC, as you say does seem to maintain it's integrity. The English in general have a better track record of being better educated, and more knowledgeable of politics than us americans. And that goes for the rest of the world too. It's a big part of the reason the rest of the world thinks were fools.
 
Do you know who Lord Hutton is? Anything about his political background, how he became a Peer, the extent to which anyone disagreed with the report. It was a whitewash, if the Downing St. Memo had been on the record it would have been very different. The report did actually say the language had been sexed up and the resignations from the BBC were to ensure the BBC could continue to report objectively and not be subject to Government reprisals. The fact is it was a strong condemnation of the Government in the weakest possible terms. Hutton was appointed by Blair to write the report, he was also given a peerage by Blair and has earned himself the nickname of one of Tony's Cronies before this report was ever released.

So what did Moore lie about, last I heard a whole team of fact-checkers were unable to come up with anything concrete, and the Carlyle Group segment was to highlight conflicts of interest and a deep relationship between the Bush's and Saudi money, which it did.
 
Jumping into the midst here...

...I agree with cnredd, it seems to me that if the evidence against Bush was significant and concrete enough then surely Moore would be able to create a credible documentary, and Bush would already be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Or is this view too niave?

...Oh, and thanks ban.the.electoral.college, thats very sweet but I don't think the US is foolish, well, not entirely, though I may be in a minority over here on that one.

As for the beeb, yes, I'd agree with the fair and balanced appraisal, when wearing poppies for remembrance day is considered not impartial enough I think thats onto a winner, though my bias' may be showing through here.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
You're absolutely right. If Liberals are X, then Conservatives are Y. You can point out any number of facts true or otherwise. It just doesn't help the debate move along.

As for Rupert's empire (fox being a key ingrediant), it's so skewed it's not even funny. In fact, the american public is so ill informed it's pathetic. How else can you explain GW in the white house? How else you can you explain our involvement in Iraq?

I love these two paragraphs...

"Libs=X & Con=Y can't move the debate along...so allow me spew my hatred toward Y"
 
Jumping into the midst here...

...I agree with cnredd, it seems to me that if the evidence against Bush was significant and concrete enough then surely Moore would be able to create a credible documentary, and Bush would already be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Or is this view too niave?

First of all. Too many people act like F9/11 was supposed to the gospel truth. On the contrary, I went to film school, and I'll tell you what everyone in documentary film making knows: All documentary is propaganda. F-9/11 was a propaganda piece designed to create a mass questioning of GWB's integrity, because thats exactly what the mainstream media failed to do. Whether the mass media did this intentionally or not is subject to further debate. Also understand, Images do not lie. Context however can be easily manipulated. That said, F-9/11 is not the gospel truth. Nor is it a lie. People miss the point when they get caught up in that debate. And it's certainly irrelevant when you understand the point of the film. Besides undermining GWB's credibility, the film was also designed to create a national dialogue. Herein, lies Michael Moores genius. Suddenly an otherwise depoliticized and apathetic nation is talking about politics more than ever.

...Oh, and thanks ban.the.electoral.college, thats very sweet but I don't think the US is foolish, well, not entirely, though I may be in a minority over here on that one.

I agree, that is not what I said. If you read the post again, you'll see that I gave you a reason why the rest of the world thinks we are foolish. Now, here's part of the problem. 10 years ago there were 50 massive corporations controling virtually all forms of media from print, to music and broadcast. Today, there are less than 10 multinational corporations holding 90% of the access to americans in their homes. The homogenization of the media narrows our mainstream perspective, and therefore we are slowly tuned out from matters of importance so the powers that be can maintain the status quo. How else do you explaine an idiot like GWB in the Whitehouse? He's certinly not there based on the merit of his past. His intellectual capacity and ability to lead are not his strong points. I don't even need mention his the problems he has with speech.

As for the beeb, yes, I'd agree with the fair and balanced appraisal, when wearing poppies for remembrance day is considered not impartial enough I think thats onto a winner, though my bias' may be showing through here.
 
But it seems to me that if Moore is going to undermine GWB's credibility then he should do it by presenting a meaningful, factual documentary, instead of a peice of, what you quite rightly called, propaganda.

ban.the.eletoral.college said:
I agree, that is not what I said. If you read the post again, you'll see that I gave you a reason why the rest of the world thinks we are foolish.

You're correct, I did misread your post, I apologise, but...

ban.the.eletoral.college said:
How else do you explaine an idiot like GWB in the Whitehouse? He's certinly not there based on the merit of his past. His intellectual capacity and ability to lead are not his strong points. I don't even need mention his the problems he has with speech.

...I explain his presence in the White House as the majority of Americans voted for him, at least the second time round, thats part of democracy, and I think its all too easy to blaim the media when it doesn't swing your way.
 
Just quickly, 40% of voters did not vote in 2000, and Al Gore actually won the popular vote, it was the electoral college system (which seems inherently flawed) that put Bush in the White House, but then the election was actually stolen. What I haven't heard anyone respond to is the fact that a whole team of New York Times fact-checkers were unable to find a single incorrect fact in the film.

The film also highlighted strong ties between Saudi Arabia and the U.S. generally and the Bush family and Bin Laden family specifically, it also countered the two biggest myths about Iraq which were incidentally the two biggest reasons for going to war, WMD and tieds to terror, but not any real effect as there was no way of showing nothing on screen, which was what both cases amounted to, bupkiss.

And as your all Americans (I assume) have any of you seen the segments of the film regarding the FBI infiltrating peace groups using the PATRIOT Act. I only ask because an American copy I saw did not contain this information, yet the British release did. And if Bush was legitimately elected why has the Newsnight piece which broke the story about the voter purging been effectively banned?
 
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Michael Moore - liberator or slanderer

I would have to say Moore is a slanderer/traitor and a brilliant film director.I think his talents are being wasted in HollyWood he could perhaps be another scumbag liberal professor teaching creative film making at some degenerate liberal University.The way he organized different scenes in the movie seemed to express the view he was trying to convey with out directly stating he was trying intill onto the brainwashed morons who buy his film as truth.
 
jamesrage said:
I would have to say Moore is a slanderer/traitor and a brilliant film director.I think his talents are being wasted in HollyWood he could perhaps be another scumbag liberal professor teaching creative film making at some degenerate liberal University.The way he organized different scenes in the movie seemed to express the view he was trying to convey with out directly stating he was trying intill onto the brainwashed morons who buy his film as truth.

This is a post I got off of a different forum awhile ago...

I got to watch a stinging behind the scenes piece
about Micheal Moore and his techniques in one of my
broadcasting classes and it was very disturbing,
this particular piece was about some "investigative"
news show he had awhile back, one technique was to
get cameras in someone's place of business and start
shooting footage without that owner's permission,
this footage was unusable because it was a public
establishment, this wasn't meant to be used as it
was a tool to infuriate said owner until the man
would chase Moore out of the business into
"public domain" where anything and everything used
on camera is fair game and not subject to a release
of the footage, by this time the person being violated
is naturally going to be so furious that they will
be shouting, ranting, and perfect for making a case
that they are "guilty" of whatever charge Moore
wanted to imply, that is just dirty.
 
Is Michael Moore a Hero or a Hypocrite?

I view these types of people, including many tv commentators and authors, whether on the left or right as entertainers. They want their media to suceed. The best way to do this is to be controversial, extremely one sided, etc.
 
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