Michael Cohen pleads guilty to lying to Congress about Trump real estate project in Russia

[Exactice]

Oooh I offended you sensibilities? The truth hurts but you should try it sometimes. Ivanka is letting her lawyer sort out "personal e-mails" same as Hillary. You also forget that Colin Powell used AOL while SOS. But he was appointed by a Republican so that is different right? Trump is innocent of every charge for the same reason I suppose. Even a man who is most likely a criminal abuser of women is OK on the Supreme Court because he is a Republican stooge too. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny. Thank goodness this nightmare will be over soon. It's been like a "bizzaro world" where the criminals have taken over the Govt. Now it is time for some heads to roll.



https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/colin-powell-defends-personal-email-227889

AOL, Gmail and Yahoo. Is not the same as a private server intentionally hidden. AOL, Gmail, Yahoo are public server. I am Unaware that Ivanka was using a private server at this time. ITS NOT the same. So trying to corrolate the offense is like trying to correlate apples and bananas both fruits just different types.

Here is a simple answer. GO for it investigate Ivanaka. BUT the Results that HRC received should be no less for Ivanaka, So whats the point. HRC did MUCH more with here private server. Ivanka may have emailed business on a public server, So if she faces Jail or penalties HRC should have faced the same.

So demand whatever you want I all for equal justice. But if there is a sign of a 2 tier justice system them be prepared to answer for that. like you said if Ivanka did JUST the same, it wont matter as HRC was never prosecuted.

 

[Exactice]

no problem thanks for acknowledging.


Because they are required to provide a limited scope with such appointments. To have an open ended scope leads to abuses...the special counsel rules have been updated many times over the years, each time making it more limited, and more constrained by DOJ. It was Trump that had all the ties to Russia that were lied about, obfuscated, and hidden. It was Trump that was behaving guiltty. It was Trump that hired Flynn. It was Trump that asked Comey to drop it. It was Trump who fired Comey.
Hint, it was Trump. It’s his campaign that ther was evidence of criminality surrounding this, and so SC was appointed for that purpose.



Evidence of a crime...and there was and is.
There was evidence Russia hacked the DNC and timed the email release perfectly to benefit Trump.
Ther was evidence Trumps campaign had lots of suspicious Russian contacts that they were hiding and lying about.
It was team trump that Putin was helping.
It was Trump talking sweet about Putin and dropping sanctions.
Heck, most of this was public at that point.
When Trump made the seemingly criminal move to obstruct so overtly in asking him to drop the Flynn thing and then fired him because of Russia, that was sufficient to prompt Special Counsel to look into it all.

Im not here to be right, Im here to understand both sides, SO if I am wrong I more than happy to admit it or correct myself. So please accept my apologies again!

As for limited scope...... You are OK for them to go to financial crimes back to 2007 with manafort, Raiding Cohen etc. there is no limit. Its ALL Trump.

Let me say this in a different way. We know for a fact that a dossier was created is the Special Council in any way investigating the Dossier, it is SPECIFICALLY related to the damage of Trump during the campaign then was found to be used by a foreign agent that collected info from Russians?

Intelligence community did state that the Russians setup for BOTH parties not just Trump.

As for your points. Seems like a lot of Opinions,

Russians hacked DNC. nothing proves Trump related, that is opinion.

Trump suspicious contacts. Nothing illegal or they would have been charged already. Flynn and Kisliyak, Trump Tower Russian lawyer...nothing illegal STUPID but not illegal

Putin helping Trump opinion.

Sweet talk... Opinion.

Your last part that was sufficient to Prompt the special council I can agree.. He did bring this on himself. BUT reading the title of teh ACTUAL Special council says investigate RUSSIAN interference in the 2016 Elections

then bullets out TRUMP and anything related....is it me but usually you run against an opponent in an election...SO I feel if we are investigating Russian Interference it WOULD BE BOTH parties in relation to the Election as a whole. NOT just one. Again that is MY opinion. UNLESS the people investigating have an agenda..... Does that NOT strike you odd in any way shape or form?

 

[iguanaman]

Im not here to be right, Im here to understand both sides, SO if I am wrong I more than happy to admit it or correct myself. So please accept my apologies again!

As for limited scope...... You are OK for them to go to financial crimes back to 2007 with manafort, Raiding Cohen etc. there is no limit. Its ALL Trump.

Let me say this in a different way. We know for a fact that a dossier was created is the Special Council in any way investigating the Dossier, it is SPECIFICALLY related to the damage of Trump during the campaign then was found to be used by a foreign agent that collected info from Russians?

Intelligence community did state that the Russians setup for BOTH parties not just Trump.

As for your points. Seems like a lot of Opinions,

Russians hacked DNC. nothing proves Trump related, that is opinion.

Trump suspicious contacts. Nothing illegal or they would have been charged already. Flynn and Kisliyak, Trump Tower Russian lawyer...nothing illegal STUPID but not illegal

Putin helping Trump opinion.

Sweet talk... Opinion.

Your last part that was sufficient to Prompt the special council I can agree.. He did bring this on himself. BUT reading the title of teh ACTUAL Special council says investigate RUSSIAN interference in the 2016 Elections

then bullets out TRUMP and anything related....is it me but usually you run against an opponent in an election...SO I feel if we are investigating Russian Interference it WOULD BE BOTH parties in relation to the Election as a whole. NOT just one. Again that is MY opinion. UNLESS the people investigating have an agenda..... Does that NOT strike you odd in any way shape or form?

Mueller does not deal in opinion and his indictments and guilty pleas are the proof. Trump is already an unindicted co-conspirator in the Stormy payoff scam that Cohen has already plead guilty to. His 3 tweets om Monday are all impeachable instances of obstruction and witness tampering. So just keep supporting your criminal in chief and holding his water for him. All the harder you will fall when he does.

 

[Mach]

As for limited scope...... You are OK for them to go to financial crimes back to 2007 with manafort, Raiding Cohen etc. there is no limit. Its ALL Trump.

Scope is russian meddling any any ties/coordination with Trump campaign and any other matters arising from the investigation (etc.)
Manafort was Trump's campaign chairman during this time, so yeah, entirely within scope.
Also, remember, just like this investigation started with FBI, Manafort was already under FBI investigation and had been for years. Mueller simply got access to the FBI work on Manafort, saw a criminal, and pursued it. Ideally, Manfort would cooperate, but he chose to try for a pardon.

Let me say this in a different way. We know for a fact that a dossier was created is the Special Council in any way investigating the Dossier, it is SPECIFICALLY related to the damage of Trump during the campaign then was found to be used by a foreign agent that collected info from Russians?

I have no idea, and no idea why that matters. You have the Special Counsel scope, and the reasons it started.

Intelligence community did state that the Russians setup for BOTH parties not just Trump.

That's FALSE too! ARgh. House Republicans claimed that, they are lying **** heads.
House Republicans rebuked them:

The Senate panel called the overall assessment a “sound intelligence product,” saying evidence presented by the FBI, CIA and National Security Agency supported their collective conclusion that the Russian government had “developed a clear preference for Trump” over his opponent in the race, Hillary Clinton. Where the agencies disagreed, the Senate panel found those differences were “reasonable.”

Russians hacked DNC. nothing proves Trump related, that is opinion.

Who claimed it was proven yet? No one! (Stone/Corsi will get fingered for this)

Trump suspicious contacts. Nothing illegal or they would have been charged already. Flynn and Kisliyak, Trump Tower Russian lawyer...nothing illegal STUPID but not illegal

That's absurd. The investigation is ongoing, why would they have charged the kingpin before the investigation was complete? Makes no sense.

Putin helping Trump opinion.

that's a fact.

Sweet talk... Opinion.

That too is a fact.

the title of teh ACTUAL Special council says investigate RUSSIAN interference in the 2016 Elections

Does that NOT strike you odd in any way shape or form?

I find your posts odd, and tiring.
There is evidence Russia committed crimes with regards to the election, in favor of helping Trump win.
(DNC email release being key here)
There is evidence Trumps campaign engaged in obstruction of the FBI investigation into the Russian meddling.
There is no evidence Hillary's campaign committed any crimes related to the election.

How much more clear can you get?

 

[sanman]

Your statements are BS. The trade protectionism and isolationism are not long held GOP beliefs, go get a history lesson.

They're certainly not a point of contention with the Left, so why worry?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Mueller does not deal in opinion and his indictments and guilty pleas are the proof. Trump is already an unindicted co-conspirator in the Stormy payoff scam that Cohen has already plead guilty to. His 3 tweets om Monday are all impeachable instances of obstruction and witness tampering. So just keep supporting your criminal in chief and holding his water for him. All the harder you will fall when he does.

Severed Heads Leap From Dufflebag
Today Michael Cohen dropped the dufflebag he'd been carrying for Donald Trump for ten years and a collection of severed heads fell out, one of which spoke the following words:

"...and at the direction of, a candidate for federal office."
The severed head was implicating Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States.

Trump will most likely resign because the noose will now begin tightening around his family.
Expect an unscheduled Melania trip to a non-extradition country where she will access and empty his Swiss bank accounts, and begin divorce proceedings.
Expect an unscheduled trip to Moscow where Trump will announce his resignation with Steven Seagal (and soon to be Chuck Norris) by his side.

Announcing the two newest James Bond villains.



My money says that Trump, Seagal and Norris will eventually attempt to link up with Erik Prince and attempt to form a fascist right wing "government in exile".

 

[Exactice]

.

....

...

Good morning! I want to start off this response this way to help guide the rest of responses. If thats ok, Im quoting all 3 as I hope this is relevant as a whole?

First off I have a major concession..... In the Decision to NOT prosecute HRC. I concede and accept the findings! Why? Well I told atomic that I would do my research, and I have.....From the research in FAIRNESS I accept the fact that the Prosecutor team as a whole, from past experiences have made the decision. OK Why I have I made that decision what does this mean for me as well as you?

First off I was JADED and BIAS. I wanted to see HRC suffer... (I can admit my bias) With that, the "Witch Hunt" against Trump in my mind has also increased my displeasure with the system. BUT taking a FAIR step back and looking at it this way.

1) As a BUSINESS. OK first off I have an employee that used a system improperly, at this point NO harm No foul.....The said person Should be relieved of their duties and or Fired. This will be on their record for mishandling and any future employment will be forever in questions in regards to records keeping. While a violation may have occurred. to say they should ROT in jail for this... TO be fair...is grossly overstating it. (HRC is not SOS anymore, HRC lost the Presidential Candidacy, this is forever a black mark on her legacy and the fact that "PEOPLE" as a whole may never trust her with secrets as she lacks the ability to maintain opsec) In my opinion her political days are numbered.....So wasting any more time on the "Server" issue is moot..... WITH THAT.....In hopes that no more PEOPLE do the same crap and see this as set precedence.

2) Investigators handling cases. First OFF Bias is absolute. It will always be there.... the question is can you fairly act without letting your bias control your decisions. Strozk, Paige, Comey, lynch, seemingly had bias.....But did the bias affect their decisions. PARTLY yes..... With that. ALL are fired or no longer in the job. they CANNOT affect outcomes anymore. Now should the be punished or go to jail. Likely Strozk and Page only have jobs for political bias business...likely not able to get into a federal system where they can forever live on the inherent bias.

2a) Did they BREAK laws... I dont think laws are broken to be put in jail.... but surely actions that were unbecoming and WARRANTED removal from their positions PERIOD. All which are gone now. So its Done.

2b) AGAIN TO me I will Drop the HRC Server issue. (UNLESS there is actual CRIMINAL activity to be found) You know like Manafort if they can FIND financial or Criminal acts in relation to the server then pursue. IN my mind the the server is OVER and done with in itself.

2c) Watching the IG and FBI Director Wray testify. Wray stated they have implemented changes to what the IG report came out. I hope so. Couple thoughts with that. Comey made a LOT of missteps and unprecedented moves, He was FAIRLY fired. IG report stated his mishandling was evident. IN all fairness of actions again as running a business...... Trump being the CEO... Comey a subordinate. all his misteps leading up to his firing regardless if Trump said one thing... Comey had a LOT of missteps that ultimately justifies his firing. IS THIS FAIR again looking at it objectively like I am trying above? Comey's firing is justified?

2d) FBI to me has a big concern supposedly 37,000 employees. YET... Strozk & Page, BOTH were on 3 of the MOST prolific cases related to each other, HRC Server, Russian Investigation then the Mueller Special Council. This SHOULD be a rule that the conflict of interest on being on the 3 concurrent cases cannot happen. They can be an advisor for relevant info but not concurrent investigators.... 37,000 employees and strozk was the lead on 2 of the 3?

PART 2 continued!

 

[iguanaman]

Good morning! I want to start off this response this way to help guide the rest of responses. If thats ok, Im quoting all 3 as I hope this is relevant as a whole?

First off I have a major concession..... In the Decision to NOT prosecute HRC. I concede and accept the findings! Why? Well I told atomic that I would do my research, and I have.....From the research in FAIRNESS I accept the fact that the Prosecutor team as a whole, from past experiences have made the decision. OK Why I have I made that decision what does this mean for me as well as you?

First off I was JADED and BIAS. I wanted to see HRC suffer... (I can admit my bias) With that, the "Witch Hunt" against Trump in my mind has also increased my displeasure with the system. BUT taking a FAIR step back and looking at it this way.

1) As a BUSINESS. OK first off I have an employee that used a system improperly, at this point NO harm No foul.....The said person Should be relieved of their duties and or Fired. This will be on their record for mishandling and any future employment will be forever in questions in regards to records keeping. While a violation may have occurred. to say they should ROT in jail for this... TO be fair...is grossly overstating it. (HRC is not SOS anymore, HRC lost the Presidential Candidacy, this is forever a black mark on her legacy and the fact that "PEOPLE" as a whole may never trust her with secrets as she lacks the ability to maintain opsec) In my opinion her political days are numbered.....So wasting any more time on the "Server" issue is moot..... WITH THAT.....In hopes that no more PEOPLE do the same crap and see this as set precedence.

2) Investigators handling cases. First OFF Bias is absolute. It will always be there.... the question is can you fairly act without letting your bias control your decisions. Strozk, Paige, Comey, lynch, seemingly had bias.....But did the bias affect their decisions. PARTLY yes..... With that. ALL are fired or no longer in the job. they CANNOT affect outcomes anymore. Now should the be punished or go to jail. Likely Strozk and Page only have jobs for political bias business...likely not able to get into a federal system where they can forever live on the inherent bias.

2a) Did they BREAK laws... I dont think laws are broken to be put in jail.... but surely actions that were unbecoming and WARRANTED removal from their positions PERIOD. All which are gone now. So its Done.

2b) AGAIN TO me I will Drop the HRC Server issue. (UNLESS there is actual CRIMINAL activity to be found) You know like Manafort if they can FIND financial or Criminal acts in relation to the server then pursue. IN my mind the the server is OVER and done with in itself.

2c) Watching the IG and FBI Director Wray testify. Wray stated they have implemented changes to what the IG report came out. I hope so. Couple thoughts with that. Comey made a LOT of missteps and unprecedented moves, He was FAIRLY fired. IG report stated his mishandling was evident. IN all fairness of actions again as running a business...... Trump being the CEO... Comey a subordinate. all his misteps leading up to his firing regardless if Trump said one thing... Comey had a LOT of missteps that ultimately justifies his firing. IS THIS FAIR again looking at it objectively like I am trying above? Comey's firing is justified?

2d) FBI to me has a big concern supposedly 37,000 employees. YET... Strozk & Page, BOTH were on 3 of the MOST prolific cases related to each other, HRC Server, Russian Investigation then the Mueller Special Council. This SHOULD be a rule that the conflict of interest on being on the 3 concurrent cases cannot happen. They can be an advisor for relevant info but not concurrent investigators.... 37,000 employees and strozk was the lead on 2 of the 3?

PART 2 continued!

Do you think Comey was "fairly fired" for the reason that Trump expressed...."This Russia thing"? Or is that obstruction? Also you can't claim "conflict of interest" merely because you don't like the decisions made. You need to site specific instances of cases where the law was not followed because of bias. All Americans have the right to there own political lean and the FBI is no exception. The forcing out of valuable members of the FBI because of private conversations about their political views is un-American at is core.

 

[Exactice]

NOW on to the Mueller special council and the Russian investigation.

As I have taken a Step back may I ask you gentlemen to take your displeasure with Trump for a moment.. all his comments and antics out and lets discuss the ground work.

1) 2016 Presidential elections. WE Know for a fact that Russia did try to interfere. Currently there is NO proof that their actions changed the OUT come. there was not machines hacked no KGB agents strong arming votes and no Money transfers as of yet.

2) Regardless of Whom the Russians supported as we cannot control what another person(s) do (if there is no plot, ploy or collusion that is) Whom they tried to interfere for is Irrelevant. the fact that they DID is the only true concern. Why do I say that is because from the findings they have stated that russians did NOT afffect the outcome, but they did try.

3) Collusion With Russians. Generically Collusion is not a crime. Conspiracy against the STATE is. FAIRLY looking at this and objectively looking at this. IT SHOULD be investigate to ENSURE there was NO coordination PERIOD. SO Trump needs to SUCK it up. If he DID NOT do anything he should NOT have anything to worry about.

4) Per my first post... Comey firing objectively is Justified. 1st executive privalige, 2nd Rosenstiens letter to fire, 3rd regardless the reason, IG stated many improper actions prior to the special council and forward if anything the day Trump was sworn into office, he should have already been fired,. SO objectively I do not see this as an obstruction of justice.

5) CRIMES committed up tot his point... PERIOD if crimes are found. Prosecute and serve them time..... OUTSIDE of that if there is NO crimes or Indictments the sentiments that there are crimes... need to calm down.

6) Trump & his Family do Real Estate....all those associated with him do business around the world. So to say that dealing with Russian is a connection. is NOT fairly objective but looking for a reason. Flynn, Manafort, Jr, session etc.... Have and dealt with Russian... .. Flynn 3 Star, NSA Director nominee..... Fairly look at he spoke to Kislyack this is NOT illegal.... his sanction discussion was dumb but he does NOT face charges for that, just his misrepresentation of the meeting..... AGAIN look at it from a business move. DID he do something criminal? Should he ROT in jail? Does this Indicate COLLUSION or a PLOT.... (remember the recorded Kislyack so the know what they talked about, NO plot/ploy/collusion, pay for play....nothing)

6a) FAIRLY look at it objectively. Russians contacted Jr. about dirt on HRC..... Dirt... not crimes yet... just dirt.... Oppo Research... what ALL candidates do. The meeting was bust as it was a ploy to discuss adoptions nothing about dirt.... Was the meeting illegal? NO as NO charges. Did Jr forget about it. (could have) Did they re do their forms and swear the meeting happen YES they corrected it. Its on record now, So if its illegal they can face consequences as the correct the form.. I can go on and on about the Russian connections. BUT my point is OBJECTIVELY. Is it or was it illegal? NO it was NOT.



OK Down to the final point. I personally feel Mueller's is conducting a type of Witch hunt. BUT all those facing LEGITIMATE Crimes. like Manafort, Like Cohen. good for them to defrauded and committed crimes for YEARS.

Flynn and Papadapoulus. are incidental.... I hope at WORSE Flynn gets 2 weeks like Papadapolous.


Finally .. Trump Collusion. ..... IN our heart to heart can we see Trump sitting down with someone saying I need help hack the DNC..... release emails... Russian here is the deal........ There has been NOTHING that actually indicates a super secret squirrel meeting..... Incidental meetings yes.... BUT not a plot to interfere with the elections meeting.



Anyways. SORRY I know it was long but I wanted to give my fair concession in CONTEXT and accept the findings of the HRC situation. Then question the legitimacy of the current investigation.... thoughts?

 

[Exactice]

Do you think Comey was "fairly fired" for the reason that Trump expressed...."This Russia thing"? Or is that obstruction? Also you can't claim "conflict of interest" merely because you don't like the decisions made. You need to site specific instances of cases where the law was not followed because of bias. All Americans have the right to there own political lean and the FBI is no exception. The forcing out of valuable members of the FBI because of private conversations about their political views is un-American at is core.

As I stated , the reason Trump expressed verbally, is irrelevant in my mind, By executive power, he has the right to fire regardless of the reasons.

As I stated with my follow on, Comeys conduct PRIOR to Trump being elected by the IG standards warranted his firing. And Rosentien had drafted a letter as well. TRUMP's DUMB error in making a statment. when he should have just fired him PERIOD... is on him BUT I do NOT think it was in the eyes of OBSTRUCTING justices..... In my opinion it was warranted for ALL his missteps leading up to his firing.... There were MANY per the IG report.

So I ask you. TAKE away... TRUMP for a moment.... take away JUST his comment.... Now calculate all the missteps. should Comey be fired? This is your business...you are the CEO... you found out Comey. Made conclusions. release a statement 10 days prior to an election, leaked memos to a lawyer friend (highlights) and all the rest found by the IG.... Did he deserved to be fired?


As for Conflict of interest.... (What about recusing) Again... Strozk, was the Lead Investigator for the HRC case? (Political Candidate) Then he was Put on as the Lead Investigator for the Russia case ( OPPOSITE of Political Candidate) Does that make sense? Was Strozk the ONLY Investigator out of 37,000 FBI employees? When you ask to site specific instances. The point, is this NOT bad optics? Its not breaking laws. Just does not seem in good conscious? AGAIN looking at it objectively. Would it just not have been better to put a separate lead investigator?

Then Mueller HIRES Stozk as well to be on his team 37,000 FBI employees? Shouldnt there be some separation?

As I stated. Yes BIAS is absolute there is NO way of taking that away. The question is can you fairly remove it from your decision. WITH here is a really dumb simple example?

1) Why do you put your seatbelt on or lock your house door? Its preventive and to reduce a potential loss. its easy does not take much time and reduces the potential of errors

As simple as assigning another investigator would have kept the optics clean, and likely WOULD NOT have changed to outcome, BUT would have reduced the optics of BIAS as well as the Cloud over the FBI's handling? NO?

 

[Mach]

First off I have a major concession..... In the Decision to NOT prosecute HRC. I concede and accept the findings! Why? Well I told atomic that I would do my research, and I have.....From the research in FAIRNESS I accept the fact that the Prosecutor team as a whole, from past experiences have made the decision. OK Why I have I made that decision what does this mean for me as well as you?

You call it a concession, we try-hard do-gooders call it "everyone wins", and kudos to you.
Hillary was demonized by the right, anyone watching right wing media regularly likely learned to hate her. That's the entire point. Vote based on that hatred. Not entirely your fault! Even democrats feel the weight of the relentless Republican attacks. it's a tried and true strategy, sadly.

But most damaging, was the Russian DNC hack that outed them vs Sanders...that may have cost the election. Big stuff.

Comey's firing is justified?

Trump didn't fire Comey for cause, he fired him because of this Russia thing. Trump could have fired Comey at any time before all this broke, like when elected. Trump could have sought guidance on how to do it without interfering with the investigation, and without having tried to obstruct prior to it, without setting up Rosenstein with the fake reason to terminate him right then, etc. All of that matters, to me. Its clear as day what he did. Whether that alone rises to obstruction, not sure..but it's just another piece of the puzzle. there has been clear intent to obstruct the investigation, I just hope Mueller agrees.

2d) FBI to me has a big concern supposedly 37,000 employees. YET... Strozk & Page, BOTH were on 3 of the MOST prolific cases related to each other, HRC Server, Russian Investigation then the Mueller Special Council. This SHOULD be a rule that the conflict of interest on being on the 3 concurrent cases cannot happen. They can be an advisor for relevant info but not concurrent investigators.... 37,000 employees and strozk was the lead on 2 of the 3?

There is no conflict, they are agents managed by the Bureau. Peter was one of, if not the, top counterintelligence agent on Russian matters, and made deputy of that division. Was a trusted, veteran agent and civil servant.
Page was an FBI attorney. Why would Peter keep Page with him? You know they were having an affair right?
Peter didn't even want to be on the Mueller probe, and Page encouraged him NOT TO, that's in the texts too.

Any issues with peter/lisa are due to republicans ****-heads who were attacking them solely to run a counter-narrative to the Mueller investigation. Give them cover to say "it's rigged!!!". Which apparently worked on you, and 40% of the population. Nunes had a hand in releasing that...surprise surprise. Ruined his career, what a ****er.

IG investigated, and once again, found no evidence any actions taken were tainted by political bias over being sound decisions. Many, many other agents are involved in the decision making process, the idea that peter could cowboy some nefarious junk, is stupid, and there is no evidence to support it, after lengthy investigations.

 

[Exactice]

......

Thanks! Actually you MAKE a great assessment and I was hoping you would so we could caveat to the real importance!

Did Benghazi skew my vote? NO.
Did the Private Server Skew my Vote? No
Did Anything HRC do Skew my Vote? No

So why did I vote for Trump this is the REAL honest reason...... I understood what trump said he was going to do. I watched ALL the debates. I did some background on each like I did last night about the IG report. I CAN say while I have my bias I do TRY to make logical and rational decisions.

TRUMP was the only person I could actually understand from the Commander in Chief Forums to the actual presidential debates.

Trump's policies and initiatives were the ONLY thing that made sense to me. For the life of me I could NOT understand nor accept HRC's justifications on policies.

ALL this Smoke and Mirrors. Benghazi, Server, Uranium 1, Russian strippers, Playboy/Pornstars to tax returns MEANT nothing other than piss me off more of the establishments.

MY assessment. ALL the above... in reality is DISTRACTIONS of why the Elected OFFICIALS CANT do their JOB.

All the way up to Pre Obama as the news and Congress more Focused on Policies. There was National Enquirer news here and there... BUT generally when the President was discussed or Congress discussed it was about ACTUAL policies. We have strayed so FAR.

I knew and accepted Trump as a scum bag. BUT hes said, Build I wall. Mexico will pay for it... You know what I believed him BUT in full context (Physical & digital, Taxes, tarrifs and control for funding) (Opinion). I hear repeal ACA.... I believed him ANYTHING right now based on the insuring climate is BETTER than ACA. (opinion). Reduced Taxes... I believed him. Make American Great Again.

these are sentiments that I have accepted that a crappy leader by TV standards... but by policies for which I elected him for to follow through.

Here is the thing the Presidents got 4 years to try to change things. if he Messes it up.... Someone else will come in that is the will of the people. If he seems to do a good job.... then they get another 4 years..... Its how our democracy works. Seemingly the Electorate was done with the Liberal way of life and that is why we have Trump.... To change the landscape and see if it works. Honestly in my opinion he HAS done a lot. WHILE its not inline with the Democracy or liberal Agenda. HE has altered the landscape and more so along MY personal political Agenda? This is the ONLY reason why I support him and continue to support him.


ultimately though if he is unable to fulfill anymore political agendas... due to the lack of action by Congress...... then basically we are done and just have to wait until the next person is elected.


Lets face it. Kavanaugh, Mueller, Benghazi..... Really DOES NOTHING for the country....Does not change my health care, does NOT change my taxes, does not change my cost of living..... REAL politics are what I want to see.....

So YES, Republicans Ruined HRC... Period NO debate it was a smear campaign.

Dems are ruining TRUMP. No debate its a smear campaign

Will we as a nations as politicians really ever address the hardcore political concerns or are those days over... Will it just be American Idol from now on and political are gone until another civil war?

Honestly I dont even want to argue with you Mach, Iguanaman or Atomic. Truly. I want to be able to come to a consensus with you about your taxes. how to pay our medical bills, How to have a sustainable wage and living condition. I dont even know you personally. BUT I dont want to have negative animosity to someone JUST because of their political beliefs. ITS almost like being prejudice just because of a politic leaning. Isnt that sad?

Finding Trump Guilty of colluding with russia doesnt do anything more but create more tension more hate. The same way of finding HRC guilt of mishandling Classified material. Honestly Im done with all this hate.. and would really want to get back to the real politics...

 

[Chomsky]

Thats immaterial? I dont get the correlation as my point was the GOVERNMENT has them just because the Public cant see it, The Government can ultimately charge the president with financial crimes.

Fraud in my mind includes conflicts of interest, Sorry... That was a generic blanket term.

Yes, but it's indeed immaterial to him not releasing them to the public. I never mentioned fraud. I was speaking in terms of possible conflict of interest.

Transparency? Lets be Realistic for one second. MOST that voted for Trump knew and accept him as a SCUMBAG. I highly doubt him lying about his taxes in numbers (not criminal lying) Would change much.

He said he worth 3 billion but only worth a billion hell $100million would NOT change my mind on my vote. Same with how much taxes he actually pays. If its NOT illegal then blame those that set the laws of the land. Not trump for being smart enough to pay the least amount of taxes. AS WE KNOW all Upper echelon people are doing the same Its not exclusive to Trump.

I did NOT vote in any way shape of form based on Trumps net worth and how much taxes he actually paid because my assumption is the Federal Government has the responsibility to charge Trump for any Tax evasion. So if he has not been charged for the last 60+ years..... I will vote base on his Policies he plans to enforce.

Examining Trump's returns may not have much effect on his hard-core. But it may on Moderate GOP, Indies, and Dems that crossed over.

Quite honestly I see not insisting on examining Trump's returns, as a matter of lacking in due diligence. He only got away with it because his supporters did not demand it. And now we're cleaning up the mess.

 

[Exactice]

Yes, but it's indeed immaterial to him not releasing them to the public. I never mentioned fraud. I was speaking in terms of possible conflict of interest.


Examining Trump's returns may not have much effect on his hard-core. But it may on Moderate GOP, Indies, and Dems that crossed over.

Quite honestly I see not insisting on examining Trump's returns, as a matter of lacking in due diligence. He only got away with it because his supporters did not demand it. And now we're cleaning up the mess.

conflicts of Interest? in business dealings or doing business while being the POTUS?

I think I posted it.... Trump has Real Estate around the world "Technically" He has conflicts of interest in many companies.

Trump Brand as a whole likely benefits as the President with him active our not. His Hotel Operates under his name regardless if he is the POTUS. So this one is a tough one in my mind. "Walking" away from his business is "NOT good" business just because walk away, shut down etc. Becuase he is the POTUS. (I am NOT aware thats what Presidents do?) What I mean is I have my own business. If I somehow got elected as POTUS. Im supposed to give up my business? What happens to my clients? what happens to my Employees. When my tenure is done 4-8 years, What happened to my business when I recirculate back to society?

Its a really weird thing.


As for Examining Trumps returns. Here is the odd questions. How does that affect the policies that he ran on to get elected? Moderate GOP, Indies & Dems that crossed over would see what? that he lied about his net worth? I mean Forbes already calculates $3 billion. He pays 27% of actual taxes when the rate is 37% but after all the legal deductions and finagling etc... most 1% I think in actual dollars while their rate is 37% pay about 25% actual dollars?


So Honestly in my opinion not sure what game changer his taxes will do.

To follow on my LONG drawn out post above....... Why is congress NOT focused on the immigration situation, What about actual budges. What about the failing ACA, Social Security, Medicade etc... What is Congress and the house really doing..

I mean I get it we are split between Democrats and Republicans, BUT we can just say ok here is the budget, We can spend this much, raise or decrease taxes this much and we can have X........ Supposedly the cream of the crop that gets picked to run these things but seem to act worse than my kids.........

 

[Mach]

I read the post, just a few responses.

So YES, Republicans Ruined HRC... Period NO debate it was a smear campaign.
Dems are ruining TRUMP. No debate its a smear campaign

HRC was attacked for things that turned out to be purely political though.
Trump is being attacked for thigns that so far have resulted in felony prosecutions, and appear to be lining up at least some Americans for conspiracy or other felonies, in Trump's campaign, for crimes during the transition.
Additionally, Trump appears to have broken the law via obstruction through this process.

So ruining someone politically using lies and misleading nonsense, I feel that's a bad thing.
ruining someone politically because they commit crimes and try to hide it, i feel that's a good thing.

the only question I have, is why don't Republicans? It seems like right now, they believe Trump is like a virgin unto the law. He cant' be indicted, but may be implicated in crimes, will that be enough for them to oppose him? I doubt it...why not?
in a perfect world, we wouldn't need propaganda at all, people would see the facts, and make good judgments. But alas.

ITS almost like being prejudice just because of a politic leaning. Isnt that sad?

Yes.

Finding Trump Guilty of colluding with russia doesnt do anything more but create more tension more hate. The same way of finding HRC guilt of mishandling Classified material. Honestly Im done with all this hate.. and would really want to get back to the real politics...

Justice Exactice, is important. The rule of law. elimination of corruption. If this tears the country apart, then it should be torn apart. It's that simple.

But Republicans are in charge of three branches, why didn't they pass comprehensive immigration reform? Comprehensive health care reform? Anything other than tax cuts for the wealthy?
You may want bi-partisan action, but I can assure you that's not what republicans in the House/Senate/Presidency, wanted for the past 2 years. How about in Wisconsin, where Democrats overwhelming won the votes, but it's so gerrymandered Republicans kept control of state congress? Now they are trying in lame duck to remove power from the incoming Dem governor before he takes office?

that's not bi-partisan, it's not even ethical.

 

[Chomsky]

conflicts of Interest? in business dealings or doing business while being the POTUS?

I think I posted it.... Trump has Real Estate around the world "Technically" He has conflicts of interest in many companies.

Trump Brand as a whole likely benefits as the President with him active our not. His Hotel Operates under his name regardless if he is the POTUS. So this one is a tough one in my mind. "Walking" away from his business is "NOT good" business just because walk away, shut down etc. Becuase he is the POTUS. (I am NOT aware thats what Presidents do?) What I mean is I have my own business. If I somehow got elected as POTUS. Im supposed to give up my business? What happens to my clients? what happens to my Employees. When my tenure is done 4-8 years, What happened to my business when I recirculate back to society?

Its a really weird thing.


As for Examining Trumps returns. Here is the odd questions. How does that affect the policies that he ran on to get elected? Moderate GOP, Indies & Dems that crossed over would see what? that he lied about his net worth? I mean Forbes already calculates $3 billion. He pays 27% of actual taxes when the rate is 37% but after all the legal deductions and finagling etc... most 1% I think in actual dollars while their rate is 37% pay about 25% actual dollars?


So Honestly in my opinion not sure what game changer his taxes will do.

To follow on my LONG drawn out post above....... Why is congress NOT focused on the immigration situation, What about actual budges. What about the failing ACA, Social Security, Medicade etc... What is Congress and the house really doing..

I mean I get it we are split between Democrats and Republicans, BUT we can just say ok here is the budget, We can spend this much, raise or decrease taxes this much and we can have X........ Supposedly the cream of the crop that gets picked to run these things but seem to act worse than my kids.........

Yes, that's it exactly. If he has business dealings with other governments and individuals and orgs in other nations, there may indeed be conflicts of interests with his acting in America's behalf firstly.

And his tax returns is one way to see where his financial and personal loyalties lie.

It's for just that reason that I would not vote for a man as conflicted as Trump. I want to make sure the President's loyalty lies firstly with the American people.

 

[Exactice]

I read the post, just a few responses.

Sorry I know its a lot.... I was mulling it over last night. Ive kinda got dishearten when I realized how Bias I became.

HRC.... to a certain extent had it coming though... Lets face it HRC does have her own Skeletons..... She is NOT immunize to political ridicule??

Im going to address Trump through your Justice point. I am going to stand by JUSTICE first.... I agree. The thing is Right now there is NO indictments no indications YET. So I reserve my full judgement to place blame on TRUMP before we can even call him a criminal or co-conspirator. UNTIL that moment I have that right to defend the politics that HE represents. AND ONLY the politics that he represents. (Fair?) I wont defend his moral actions JUST the politics.

As for specifics of justice, I agree.. the ABUSE though have been rampant on BOTH sides No? Its not one party or the other its BOTH? The elimination of corruption only happens when the hammer falls HARD on BOTH SIDES so they think HARD before the actually so something. Right now, the Risk out ways the punishment, People DO NOT fear Punishment anymore, because now it seems theres more rights for the Criminals than there are for those that defend "Justice" Dont you think so?


As for Republicans in charge of 3 branches. WELL they DO NOT have a supper Majority. That is TRULY the only way to pass comprehensive reforms in general? Secondly Currently ALL votes are PURE party lines with the exception of the radicals on the republican side, When I say radicals. Republicans that dislike trump (Flake, Corker etc) And the Far right Freedom Caucus that want MAXIMUM Conservative views without negotiation.

You hit it ON THE NOSE, its NOT bi-partisan and not even ethical.

The politicians have moved from ACTUAL work to just fundraising. I mean when these people get elected...do they even consider the job or task at hand or spend MOST of their time just trying to win votes for the re election. Whats even more sad is those knew people that come in... Look at Orcasio, she is more concerned about her living situation by cost. Rather then the fact she voluntarily put her self in the political sphere.


Here it comes down to in my mind. We will have 2 major factions. Take health care for example.

1) We have to accept, do we do a risk based system where it tiers based on your exposure, and CHARGE according to the risk based exposure. OR do we do a universal where everyone one get the same applicable avilable service, everyone pays X amount dollars and those providing services are regulated.

2) then Figure out the Budget.

The funny part is, half want a free market system, the other wants a regulated system. Neither want to budge..... it stubbornness, BUT ultimately its WE the people that suffer as guess what. The people sitting in the chairs that get to make decisions get a paycheck and medical care. Why should they care to expedite a legitimate decision.


Anyways.... My point is...... I read half of these post on DP....now its SO toxic...and so FAR of "Debate Politics" We are NOT debating politics we are debating TMZ and National Enquirer... Its brutal....and I fear the worst is yet to come.

 

[Exactice]

Yes, that's it exactly. If he has business dealings with other governments and individuals and orgs in other nations, there may indeed be conflicts of interests with his acting in America's behalf firstly.

And his tax returns is one way to see where his financial and personal loyalties lie.

It's for just that reason that I would not vote for a man as conflicted as Trump. I want to make sure the President's loyalty lies firstly with the American people.

Chomsky! Actual Excellent point!!!!!!!!

I know this is NOT your view... But can I say it. I believed REGARDLESS of TRUMPS moral compass, From his speeches to his Debates.. HE WAS about the American People FIRST? I really know thats Hard to believe... but hear me out.?


1%er are 1%er.... the tax cuts seem to negotiate for the middle class. WHILE it seems like the 1% got the BIGGEST break... the 1% realistically fund many of the JOBs here in American that Sustain the middle class. Its funny I have my own business but I am an Independent of a conglomerate, I (semi) interviewed with the CEO to say I want to be the CEO one day and he put things in perspective. HE MAKES a RIDICULOUS amount of money..... I make a great amount of money to be comfortable. But I again he is ridiculous. When I interview with him.... he asked me 2 questions..... Employee 1 violated work ethics. I have to fire him... He is one of the best workers in the company... What do I do? I said it "depends". He said no it does not..... I was shocked. But he went on to explain his decision is for the Conglomerate. 1 bad decision could bring the WHOLE empire down that will NOT just affect the single fired employee but the HUNDREDS of employees. that he employs. health Care, wages, families. That 1 decision to keep an employee that violated work ethics regardless if they were a good employee is what can cripple a company. Can I make that decision and I failed.

Now my point is Travel ban..... Top 7 nations looking at them objectively, on the Terror threat list, No legitimate travel documentation system. Nor legitimate criminal data base. Cant confirm your identity... cant come in. TAKE out ALL emotion. This was for the safety of OUR nation.

Immigration. EXACT same thing. These people have Zero travel Documents. Sorry cant verify who you are.... you cant come in.... With that a legitimate VISA system with Hundreds of thousands of people waiting for 1-2 years... Yet you hop the border claim asylum and you skip the line?

Health Care.... the most moral thing we could do remove the pre-existing condition exclusion. THAT was the "sweetest" deal... BUT utimately WHO pays for it. Remember the Ocasio medical care for all? Who pays for it? Um just tax the rich? that would fund it for 1 year....... ITs all fine and dandy... until the reality sets in..... Morals dont pay for logic.

Trade Agreements..... New NAFTA, Intellectual property theft China.... etc.


Are these Things NOT for the benefit of AMERICA? Not for the Perpetuation of American values and goods. here's one....... Trijicon RMR cost $449.00 (sorry if you dont know just look at the dollars) Chinese knock off I can get as cheap as $29.99, It works ALMOST as good as good as the Original and I could by 14 of them for the price of 1.


I personally SEE loyalties of the Trump to America, YET he is a business man that want to continue to make the money he always has? As of current 2 years in, What has he done for Russia? Over what he has done for Americans? what has he DONE for the Saudi Prince, that he has NOT done for Americans?



Outside of Sow.. discord among his political opponents. What has he actual FAILED purely on politics. That CONGRESS and the HOUSE cannot answer for.

 

[iguanaman]

As I stated , the reason Trump expressed verbally, is irrelevant in my mind, By executive power, he has the right to fire regardless of the reasons.

As I stated with my follow on, Comeys conduct PRIOR to Trump being elected by the IG standards warranted his firing. And Rosentien had drafted a letter as well. TRUMP's DUMB error in making a statment. when he should have just fired him PERIOD... is on him BUT I do NOT think it was in the eyes of OBSTRUCTING justices..... In my opinion it was warranted for ALL his missteps leading up to his firing.... There were MANY per the IG report.

So I ask you. TAKE away... TRUMP for a moment.... take away JUST his comment.... Now calculate all the missteps. should Comey be fired? This is your business...you are the CEO... you found out Comey. Made conclusions. release a statement 10 days prior to an election, leaked memos to a lawyer friend (highlights) and all the rest found by the IG.... Did he deserved to be fired?


As for Conflict of interest.... (What about recusing) Again... Strozk, was the Lead Investigator for the HRC case? (Political Candidate) Then he was Put on as the Lead Investigator for the Russia case ( OPPOSITE of Political Candidate) Does that make sense? Was Strozk the ONLY Investigator out of 37,000 FBI employees? When you ask to site specific instances. The point, is this NOT bad optics? Its not breaking laws. Just does not seem in good conscious? AGAIN looking at it objectively. Would it just not have been better to put a separate lead investigator?

Then Mueller HIRES Stozk as well to be on his team 37,000 FBI employees? Shouldnt there be some separation?

As I stated. Yes BIAS is absolute there is NO way of taking that away. The question is can you fairly remove it from your decision. WITH here is a really dumb simple example?

1) Why do you put your seatbelt on or lock your house door? Its preventive and to reduce a potential loss. its easy does not take much time and reduces the potential of errors

As simple as assigning another investigator would have kept the optics clean, and likely WOULD NOT have changed to outcome, BUT would have reduced the optics of BIAS as well as the Cloud over the FBI's handling? NO?

LOL Mueller got rid of all investigators that had potentially biased "optics". You claim conflicts of interests in the FBI but when it comes to Trump it is "irrelevant". You fail badly. All your comments are irrelevant when you show such partisan blindness. There is nothing more relevant than a President who is obstructing an investigation of his own campaign and associates. It is an assault on the rule of law that makes all your unfounded complaints about others moot.

 

[Exactice]

LOL You claim conflicts of interests in the FBI but when it comes to Trump it is "irrelevant". You fail badly. All your comments are irrelevant when you show such partisan blindness. There is nothing more relevant than a President who is obstructing an investigation of his own campaign and associates. It is an assault on the rule of law that makes all your unfounded complaints about others moot.

?? I am debating.. and discussing. I have been more than happy to reverse my position and admitted my bias.. Please enlighten me.

I ask a simple question 37,000 FBI employees.. Strozk was the ONLY qualified investigator to lead. I mean if there is no one else there is no one else I am just asking the question as per public perception it just looks odd.

Did I say trumps Conflicts were irrelevant? Sorry I dont recall. I have acknowledge that he WOULD absolutely have them because of his business dealing around the world. What do we do with him? Is he supposed to take his name off all hotels and close them and say no one can live there because now Im the POTUS.

The question is the conflicts criminal?

Finally I have my opinion WHY I feel he is Not obstructing. its my opinion, its neither right nor wrong SAME as your opinion. You say it is, You do NO know if its right or wrong until it gets adjudicate. So to criticize my opinion as moot or irrelevant cast the same comment on yours. If Trump right now is found guilt of a crime. Then yes my point is moot. Until that its an opinion and speculation JUST like your neither right nor wrong.



PS. At this point if you want to be combative, then I would rather stop the discussion with you. Many other posters have seen my intent and have changed their attitude towards me. Again I do not want confrontation just discussion. So if you do not want to remain civil just disregard my post? You are more than happy to do so!

 

[Chomsky]

Chomsky! Actual Excellent point!!!!!!!!

I know this is NOT your view... But can I say it. I believed REGARDLESS of TRUMPS moral compass, From his speeches to his Debates.. HE WAS about the American People FIRST? I really know thats Hard to believe... but hear me out.?


1%er are 1%er.... the tax cuts seem to negotiate for the middle class. WHILE it seems like the 1% got the BIGGEST break... the 1% realistically fund many of the JOBs here in American that Sustain the middle class. Its funny I have my own business but I am an Independent of a conglomerate, I (semi) interviewed with the CEO to say I want to be the CEO one day and he put things in perspective. HE MAKES a RIDICULOUS amount of money..... I make a great amount of money to be comfortable. But I again he is ridiculous. When I interview with him.... he asked me 2 questions..... Employee 1 violated work ethics. I have to fire him... He is one of the best workers in the company... What do I do? I said it "depends". He said no it does not..... I was shocked. But he went on to explain his decision is for the Conglomerate. 1 bad decision could bring the WHOLE empire down that will NOT just affect the single fired employee but the HUNDREDS of employees. that he employs. health Care, wages, families. That 1 decision to keep an employee that violated work ethics regardless if they were a good employee is what can cripple a company. Can I make that decision and I failed.

Now my point is Travel ban..... Top 7 nations looking at them objectively, on the Terror threat list, No legitimate travel documentation system. Nor legitimate criminal data base. Cant confirm your identity... cant come in. TAKE out ALL emotion. This was for the safety of OUR nation.

Immigration. EXACT same thing. These people have Zero travel Documents. Sorry cant verify who you are.... you cant come in.... With that a legitimate VISA system with Hundreds of thousands of people waiting for 1-2 years... Yet you hop the border claim asylum and you skip the line?

Health Care.... the most moral thing we could do remove the pre-existing condition exclusion. THAT was the "sweetest" deal... BUT utimately WHO pays for it. Remember the Ocasio medical care for all? Who pays for it? Um just tax the rich? that would fund it for 1 year....... ITs all fine and dandy... until the reality sets in..... Morals dont pay for logic.

Trade Agreements..... New NAFTA, Intellectual property theft China.... etc.


Are these Things NOT for the benefit of AMERICA? Not for the Perpetuation of American values and goods. here's one....... Trijicon RMR cost $449.00 (sorry if you dont know just look at the dollars) Chinese knock off I can get as cheap as $29.99, It works ALMOST as good as good as the Original and I could by 14 of them for the price of 1.


I personally SEE loyalties of the Trump to America, YET he is a business man that want to continue to make the money he always has? As of current 2 years in, What has he done for Russia? Over what he has done for Americans? what has he DONE for the Saudi Prince, that he has NOT done for Americans?



Outside of Sow.. discord among his political opponents. What has he actual FAILED purely on politics. That CONGRESS and the HOUSE cannot answer for.

I see some things you mentioned as plausible, but a few others as not. Trump kowtows to Putin. He changed the GOP platform, stood on stage and disavowed our intelligence community for "Putin's word", and ignored applying Congress' sanctions against Russia. So I see some of these quite differently than you.

But "proof of acting on a conflict" is not what I'm talking about here. I could not in good conscience vote for anyone with a strong possible conflict. I would not have voted for Trump on that alone. I don't want to risk an in-conflict president, and I don't want to second guess his loyalties or decisions.

One example: ZTE (Chinese telco manufacturer) was caught violating Iranian sanctions for military gear, and even worse they were putting spy chips in devices sold to the U.S. government & military. Subsequently, they were banned from U.S. trade. Not long after, China floated $500M for a Trump branded property in Indonesia. A day or two after the 500M, Trump overrode the military and trade ban on ZTE, citing: "China will lose jobs".

Can you in good conscience say you don't see any conflict of interest here?

Feel free to Google that last example with the content I gave you, including Trump's Tweet. It's pretty accurate.

 

[Exactice]

I see some things you mentioned as plausible, but a few others as not. Trump kowtows to Putin. He changed the GOP platform, stood on stage and disavowed our intelligence community for "Putin's word", and ignored applying Congress' sanctions against Russia. So I see some of these quite differently than you.

But "proof of acting on a conflict" is not what I'm talking about here. I could not in good conscience vote for anyone with a strong possible conflict. I would not have voted for Trump on that alone. I don't want to risk an in-conflict president, and I don't want to second guess his loyalties or decisions.

One example: ZTE (Chinese telco manufacturer) was caught violating Iranian sanctions for military gear, and even worse they were putting spy chips in devices sold to the U.S. government & military. Subsequently, they were banned from U.S. trade. Not long after, China floated $500M for a Trump branded property in Indonesia. A day or two after the 500M, Trump overrode the military and trade ban on ZTE, citing: "China will lose jobs".

Can you in good conscience say you don't see any conflict of interest here?

Feel free to Google that last example with the content I gave you, including Trump's Tweet. It's pretty accurate.

HMMM! Interesting take! Another point of expansion of my thoughts. ABSOLUTELY FAIR Statement.


With that.. kowtows to Putin.... matter of reception of optics... surely has that view at some points...

He made a dumbass comment about the intelligence community. Specific to the summit he did correct himself. HE is a dumbass with diarrhea mouth though (NOT a defense) But to say is disavowed.....Im sure he has faith in it..... just shoots of at the mouth.

Changed the GOP platform this is a good one.... Trump WAS a Democrat for a long time and then became a Republican. He is NOT a Jim Jordan or a Rand Paul for sure. he is NOT a Hard-line Pence conservative thats for sure. I am NOT quite sure where I stand on this one just yet..... But an agreeable point!


ZTE is a weird one.... I do need to do my research deeper I know this was a highly contentious point the reversal of the ban. Im going to make an uneducated statement and do a little google. BUT I wonder if it was one of those risk vs rewards situation I.E. lesser of 2 evils. as I understand if we collapsed ZTE, it would had major economic repercussions? Kinda like the Saudi prince situation... right now.... What are we to do. Condemn Saudi Arabia for killing their own citizen... and take the chance of whatever happens in the middle east. or Suck it up and move on? Anyway I thought during that period this was the China Trade showdown as well at it was intended to have some goodwill for MORE negotiations (which of course failed) But the table is still open.


Anyways. AGAIN I cannot disagree with your feelings or sentiments, BUT I can accept them respect them and Understand where YOU are coming from.

With that. while I am ONLY one.... Trump voter... I hope you have a little insight to what I am and a person like me is thinking. NOT completely bias or a TRUMP drum beater... but trying to see the policies he wanted to put in place?

 

[iguanaman]

?? I am debating.. and discussing. I have been more than happy to reverse my position and admitted my bias.. Please enlighten me.

I ask a simple question 37,000 FBI employees.. Strozk was the ONLY qualified investigator to lead. I mean if there is no one else there is no one else I am just asking the question as per public perception it just looks odd.

Did I say trumps Conflicts were irrelevant? Sorry I dont recall. I have acknowledge that he WOULD absolutely have them because of his business dealing around the world. What do we do with him? Is he supposed to take his name off all hotels and close them and say no one can live there because now Im the POTUS.

The question is the conflicts criminal?

Finally I have my opinion WHY I feel he is Not obstructing. its my opinion, its neither right nor wrong SAME as your opinion. You say it is, You do NO know if its right or wrong until it gets adjudicate. So to criticize my opinion as moot or irrelevant cast the same comment on yours. If Trump right now is found guilt of a crime. Then yes my point is moot. Until that its an opinion and speculation JUST like your neither right nor wrong.



PS. At this point if you want to be combative, then I would rather stop the discussion with you. Many other posters have seen my intent and have changed their attitude towards me. Again I do not want confrontation just discussion. So if you do not want to remain civil just disregard my post? You are more than happy to do so!

Obstruction and witness tampering is a crime and Trump is most certainly guilty of both. It really isn't an opinion either. It is as plain as the spray tan on Trumps face.. As far as Strozk is concerned the only thing that matters is how he conducted the investigation and if bias was shown he should have be dismissed. Unfortunately that was NOT what happened. He was forced out with unfounded accusations of bias based on personal communications as part of an ongoing effort to undermine a legitimate investigation. All the bias was on the other side. If you can't see it then you are also guilty of the same bias and callous disregard for the rule of law. This is why Trump MUST be impeached lest future Presidents use his example to do the same things. No man or President is above the law and we must keep it that way or perish as a nation.

 

[Exactice]

Obstruction and witness tampering is a crime and Trump is most certainly guilty of both. It really isn't an opinion either. It is as plain as the spray tan on Trumps face.. As far as Strozk is concerned the only thing that matters is how he conducted the investigation and if bias was shown he should have be dismissed. Unfortunately that was NOT what happened. He was forced out with unfounded accusations of bias based on personal communications as part of an ongoing effort to undermine a legitimate investigation. All the bias was on the other side. If you can't see it then you are also guilty of the same bias and callous disregard for the rule of law. This is why Trump MUST be impeached lest future Presidents use his example to do the same things. No man or President is above the law and we must keep it that way or perish as a nation.

Unfortunately your contradiction is where I lack a legitimate response with you. I am trying to be honest and deal with things on the table.

You state what I highlighted with absolutes. He has NOT been charged your. Its an accusation with nothing currently on the table as a factual crime. How you can state that as NOT opinion is disappointing as you discredit my opinions that are neither wrong nor right.

The Bias was recognized by the IG, that is WHY he was dismissed/fired. from the FBI and EVEN prior to that, Mueller dismissed him when the TEXT came to light. NOT on the actual text likely, BUT just the principle that it would NOT show fair judgement. Strozk COULD possibly have acted in fair judgment, BUT the fact that the texts came out and would cast doubt and a cloud.

Also I was listing to more about the IG report, I need to source the exact source...but it was state that the IG in all the years never so the same lead investigator on related cases with investigates both opposing parties, BUT again let me source that to be certain.

Trump MUST be impeached. You call out my bias. yet you have just as much and or more. Do you recognize this? I know I do?

 

[iguanaman]

Unfortunately your contradiction is where I lack a legitimate response with you. I am trying to be honest and deal with things on the table.

You state what I highlighted with absolutes. He has NOT been charged your. Its an accusation with nothing currently on the table as a factual crime. How you can state that as NOT opinion is disappointing as you discredit my opinions that are neither wrong nor right.

The Bias was recognized by the IG, that is WHY he was dismissed/fired. from the FBI and EVEN prior to that, Mueller dismissed him when the TEXT came to light. NOT on the actual text likely, BUT just the principle that it would NOT show fair judgement. Strozk COULD possibly have acted in fair judgment, BUT the fact that the texts came out and would cast doubt and a cloud.

Also I was listing to more about the IG report, I need to source the exact source...but it was state that the IG in all the years never so the same lead investigator on related cases with investigates both opposing parties, BUT again let me source that to be certain.

Trump MUST be impeached. You call out my bias. yet you have just as much and or more. Do you recognize this? I know I do?

You do know the Justice Dept. is following guidelines that say that a sitting President may not be indicted. Are you of the notion that this means a President can't break the law? No one is above the law and it simply means the President must be removed from office before he is charged. Trump has broken the law multiple times and when I say he must be impeached it is so he may be prosecuted for his crimes. I also explained why those FBI agents were forced out and no bias or malfeasance of duty was ever proved for any of them. They were forced out to discredit the investigation and to protect Trump and his cabal. Nothing more.
Sooner or later you will need to ask yourself....do I like Trump so much that I don't care if he is a criminal intent on taking over the Justice Dept. to prosecute his enemies, or do I value our system of govt. and the pursuit of truth by the rule of law more? It really is that simple.

There was this amazing thing on the electric Twitter machine on Monday, and it had nothing to do with happy babies, or cute cats, or puppies wearing dress hats, or a poll on who the most talented Ferengi was. Right there in your feed, if you're lucky enough to be following him, the President* of the United States committed a crime.

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”


I am going to leave why he's putting himself "in quotation marks" for another day. (Also, too: "guts.") But that right there is a criminal act, in the open, and for all the world to see. It is exactly as if he'd walked out of the White House and, with CNN in tow, stuck up a bodega. It's that blatant.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a25384412/president-trump-roger-stone-tweet-obstruction-of-justice/