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Mea Culpa, I was wrong.

Fledermaus

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To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.
 
Wow, really? Anyway, at least you are open to the facts. Putin has to look absolutely strong...he cant back down. He's already turning the "protective troops" in the 2 Russian regions into his excuse...

IMO, now is the time we should be getting Germany and other allies with ports on the North Sea to close to all Russian vessels and Russian nationals. This would be very inconvenient for the Russians working on the Nord Stream pipeline.

A harbinger of Biden's threat to shut the whole thing down. I hope Germany has the balls to back him.
 
Wow, really? Anyway, at least you are open to the facts. Putin has to look absolutely strong...he cant back down. He's already turning the "protective troops" in the 2 Russian regions into his excuse...

IMO, now is the time we should be getting Germany and other allies with ports on the North Sea to close to all Russian vessels and Russian nationals. This would be very inconvenient for the Russians working on the Nord Stream pipeline.

A harbinger of Biden's threat to shut the whole thing down. I hope Germany has the balls to back him.

EU is too locked in to cheap Russian gas.
 
EU is too locked in to cheap Russian gas.

So then they need to win, or at least hold the line, so they can have the Ukraine's natural gas.

Or let 'em deal with SA.
 
To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.
Putin is replaying Hitlers WWII playbook. If you look at what happen in Europe in the buildup to WWII this is easy to follow. He even gave a speech outlining his intentions a few years ago. Hitler wrote a book, Putin gave a speech.
Putin set this up to see how the U.S. and other countries would react. Our leaders showed weakness, so he proceeded, step by step. Don't assume this isn't part of a bigger plan, it is.
 
Will he invade or not that is the question. Putin is either the biggest drama queen ever or a poster boy for someone with a Napoleonic complex. Only time will tell.
 
Putin is replaying Hitlers WWII playbook. If you look at what happen in Europe in the buildup to WWII this is easy to follow. He even gave a speech outlining his intentions a few years ago. Hitler wrote a book, Putin gave a speech.
Putin set this up to see how the U.S. and other countries would react. Our leaders showed weakness, so he proceeded, step by step. Don't assume this isn't part of a bigger plan, it is.
One man's "independent republic" is another man's Anschluss.
 
To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.
Fledermaus:

None of us have a crystalball. It's all best guesses and educated guesses unless you have a direct connection to Vladimir Putin's wicked and devious brain. So no mea culpas are are needed nor expected.

While this may signal a brief pause in Russia's programme of expansion (I doubt it, however) this is not over and will not be over until Ukraine, Belarus, Transnistria, and Moldova are all under Mr. Putin's thumb. Putin is playing a long game and all of Ukraine is only a waypoint on his projected trajectory. Watch out for Russian forces trying to "rationalise" front lines by grabbing more territory from the rumps of the two Donbas oblasts his forces are in and then when the Ukrainians resist expect the Russians to move against Karkiv and a drive north of the Sea of Azov where a land corridor to Crimea will be seized. Then it will be all of the south past Odessa and finally western Ukraine and Kyiv to follow. The urban fighting, if it happens will be horrendous and I think Putin will use chemical weapons in urban areas if air strikes and rockets don't work to break resistance quickly. And if NATO or the EU get uppity expect a tactical or small strategic nuclear weapon to be detonated over the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone for all the world to see.

We will all have another stark reminder of man's inhumanity to man during this conflict. I just hope Canada opens its doors to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees and perhaps a Ukrainian Government in exile. This is so sad.

My sympathies for the people of Ukraine and for the lives of all those killed, wounded and displaced in this war of greed, pride and arrogance. I am also sorry for the many Russian lives which will be lost or ruined as sacrifices on the altar of Vladimir Putin's pride and appetite.

Be well Fledermaus.
Evilroddy.
 
One man's "independent republic" is another man's Anschluss.
I do not know what you mean by that.

I do know what Anschluss was. I mean, Hitler wanted a greater Germany, he wanted to attach Austria (his own native country) to Germany, making a Greater Germany his first step in the expansion of his empire (the annexation of the Sudetenland being his next step) but what is your point?
 
To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.

Don't we all wish, but I trust you're old enough to remember The Iron Curtain.
 
The invasion is well underway. Putin's speech was very angry and also very unusual. It completely misrepresented the history of Ukraine, but did more than that. It apparently attempted to erase Ukraine's identity and glorify the Russian empire as it existed long before the Soviet Union. In other words, Putin was making a case that Russian identity was part of an ethnicity rooted in a Russian history. Only Russian people who spoke the Russian language shared that. Other people were lesser. This implies that Putin is doing more than trying to establish the Soviet Union. It implies he has a prejudice against people who cannot change who they are based on the group they were born into.
 
While this may signal a brief pause in Russia's programme of expansion (I doubt it, however) this is not over and will not be over until Ukraine, Belarus, Transnistria, and Moldova are all under Mr. Putin's thumb. Putin is playing a long game and all of Ukraine is only a waypoint on his projected trajectory. Watch out for Russian forces trying to "rationalise" front lines by grabbing more territory from the rumps of the two Donbas oblasts his forces are in and then when the Ukrainians resist expect the Russians to move against Karkiv and a drive north of the Sea of Azov where a land corridor to Crimea will be seized. Then it will be all of the south past Odessa and finally western Ukraine and Kyiv to follow. The urban fighting, if it happens will be horrendous and I think Putin will use chemical weapons in urban areas if air strikes and rockets don't work to break resistance quickly. And if NATO or the EU get uppity expect a tactical or small strategic nuclear weapon to be detonated over the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone for all the world to see.
I personally think he'll stop with Odessa (at which point he will control the entire north coast of the Black Sea), and will not try to go further and take western Ukraine or Kyiv. But like you say, who knows.

The more he does, the more NATO needs to build up forces in Poland and Romania (especially Poland). Maybe Slovakia and Hungary as well.

That way, when he eventually turns his attention towards invading the EU, NATO will have forces already in place to repel his invasion.

Keep in mind also that those new tactical nukes that the Obama Administration developed have started coming off the assembly line, so we'll be able to start shipping them over to Europe.
 
I do not know what you mean by that.

I do know what Anschluss was. I mean, Hitler wanted a greater Germany, he wanted to attach Austria (his own native country) to Germany, making a Greater Germany his first step in the expansion of his empire (the annexation of the Sudetenland being his next step) but what is your point?
Putin can't just annex the "independent states" like Hitler did Austria so he declares them to to be "free" then "protects" them.
 
To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.


You are not alone. I was also more comfortable with sabre rattling. Hey, how can anyone hope for something else? I hope it is the end of it for now as well.
 
You are not alone. I was also more comfortable with sabre rattling. Hey, how can anyone hope for something else? I hope it is the end of it for now as well.
It is not. Putin did not place all those troops and all that matériel around Ukraine just to let it rust.
 
IMO, now is the time we should be getting Germany and other allies with ports on the North Sea to close to all Russian vessels and Russian nationals. This would be very inconvenient for the Russians working on the Nord Stream pipeline.

A harbinger of Biden's threat to shut the whole thing down. I hope Germany has the balls to back him.


That is what I have not heard so far: shutting the whole thing down. All I have heard so far is vows to shut Nord Stream 2 down. Nord Stream 2 is an alternative pipeline, not a main or necessary pipeline for Russia. Russia can send all the gas it wants to Germany through Ukraine. The Nord Streams were only built so Putin can by pass troublesome Ukraine. Is Germany gonna shut all the pipelines from Russia?
 
It is not. Putin did not place all those troops and all that matériel around Ukraine just to let it rust.


I thought it was a bluff. But it may not be a bluff afterall.
 
Putin is replaying Hitlers WWII playbook. If you look at what happen in Europe in the buildup to WWII this is easy to follow. He even gave a speech outlining his intentions a few years ago. Hitler wrote a book, Putin gave a speech.
Putin set this up to see how the U.S. and other countries would react. Our leaders showed weakness, so he proceeded, step by step. Don't assume this isn't part of a bigger plan, it is.


I believe Putin's play is much closer to Bismark than Hitler.
 
Putin is replaying Hitlers WWII playbook. If you look at what happen in Europe in the buildup to WWII this is easy to follow. He even gave a speech outlining his intentions a few years ago. Hitler wrote a book, Putin gave a speech.
Putin set this up to see how the U.S. and other countries would react. Our leaders showed weakness, so he proceeded, step by step. Don't assume this isn't part of a bigger plan, it is.
You mean trump showed weakness, especially at Helsinki. Putin has been planning this ever since. GOPs will cheer higher gas prices.
 
The question we need to ask is

Why now? Why is Putin choosing this time to test the United States?
 
To all who read this I was wrong.

I believed Putin was merely sabre rattling when he posted troops on the borders of Ukraine.

He has reportedly is moving "peacekeeping" troops into the newly declared "republics".

If so, I was wrong about that.

I still hope and believe that will be the end of it for now.
The possibility of russia invading ukraine was always there, however you are not as wrong as you think. The forces there are not invading in any conventional sense, but rather allowing russian peacekeeping troops into a contested area. The purpose of such is to act as a tripwire, ie no false flags, russia laid it out in the open.

Even though they laid it out in the open, few expected this type of move as the masses expected a military invasion of ukraine in response to attacks by ukrainian military against breakaway regions, and not russia actually recognizing the regions and sending peacekeeping troops.

To me it looks like typical russia, leave your red lines in plain view, your goals for everyone to see, try everything to maintain peace, and when it comes down to business use deception to fool your enemies. I am betting most of the top us intel officers never expected this move from russia, it is both what can be seen as an act of agression and as an act to maintain peace, and eliminates much of the false flag theory as the russian peacekeeping troops would be in direct line of fire, so at this point he is also daring ukraine to attack the breakaway regions without directly going to war over it unless ukraine decides to attack first.
 
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