McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal O

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

A disporportionate number of sick and older individuals buying policies on the exchanges AND who recieve large subsidies is the definition of a death spiral.

Do you know how markets work ?

This was a well know eventuallity and the Obama admin tried to deal with it by setting up risk corridors, but the survival of risk corridors was always predicated on a minumum number of young healthy people buying policies.

Nothings changed, and no Trumps not to blame for low enrollment numbers in 2016, or in 2017 or in 2018. Its simply a poorly concieved and written law that should have never seen the light of day

risk corridors were set up to stabilize the markets. and greenbeard already demonstrated that the markets have stabilized and became profitable. So I don't know why you're bringing them up. You can't just say magic words that Senate republicans use in spooky and ghoulish ways and expect all opposition to fall on their swords.

trump has negatively impacted the ability to estimate premiums by threatening to withhold the CSRs. Uncertainty is not your friend in business. Do you understand how markets work? so, if he withholds the CSRs, I better see everyone wanting to retain credibility in political discourse, savagely quartering Trump for policy that increased premiums! increased premiums are a death sentence for a politician. We shall see if the last 7 years are an indicator of true concern for American healthcare or a way to attack political opponents. your credibility sits in an hourglass.

 

[it's just me]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

IDK anymore. The GOP's problems with repealing ACA might actually push the GOP even farther to the right. Nothing makes sense anymore. Seeing how many so called Evangelicals 'Christians' voted for Trump AND STILL support him leaves me pretty confused.

Republican voters have shown an amazing ability to vote against their own interests over and over and over.

Thank you for your concern, but I wish you guys would see fit to stop looking out for "my interests".

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Thank you for your concern, but I wish you guys would see fit to stop looking out for "my interests".

Please re-read my post. I don't care about 'your interests'. I said I wish Republican voters would stop voting against their own interests. Like I wish Blue Collar Republicans would vote for Blue Collar interests instead of voting for the billionaires in this country's interests.

Never did understand why a Middle Class person would give a damn if DC wants to raise the taxes on billionaires. Billionaires sure as hell don't care when the MC taxes are raised.

 

[rhinefire]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

All of the news whores are giving all the credit to John McCain for killing Trumpcare. How misogynistic is that? Very. Let us not forget that it was Collins and Murkowski (women) who did the heavy lifting here, despite being threatened and bullied by McConnell, Trump, and others. But, thank you, John, for joining the party, albeit a little late. But, in this case, late is better than never. And thank you, Collins and Murkowski, the real heroes here.

McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare - LA Times

McCain will always be a hers even in his sleep.

 

[it's just me]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Please re-read my post. I don't care about 'your interests'. I said I wish Republican voters would stop voting against their own interests. Like I wish Blue Collar Republicans would vote for Blue Collar interests instead of voting for the billionaires in this country's interests.

Never did understand why a Middle Class person would give a damn if DC wants to raise the taxes on billionaires. Billionaires sure as hell don't care when the MC taxes are raised.

WTH are you talking about? This is just Democrat party Newspeak, it's meaningless.

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

risk corridors were set up to stabilize the markets. and greenbeard already demonstrated that the markets have stabilized and became profitable. So I don't know why you're bringing them up. You can't just say magic words that Senate republicans use in spooky and ghoulish ways and expect all opposition to fall on their swords.

trump has negatively impacted the ability to estimate premiums by threatening to withhold the CSRs. Uncertainty is not your friend in business. Do you understand how markets work? so, if he withholds the CSRs, I better see everyone wanting to retain credibility in political discourse, savagely quartering Trump for policy that increased premiums! increased premiums are a death sentence for a politician. We shall see if the last 7 years are an indicator of true concern for American healthcare or a way to attack political opponents. your credibility sits in an hourglass.

Risk corridors are bankrupt and States are currently suing the Federal Govt for Billions in lost revenues because they were forced to step in and commit money from their general funds to prop up their States failing exchanges.

The Obama admins risk corridor program NEVER stabilized anything, and no, exchanges are not currently stable.

ObamaCares inherent flaw, aka its self destruct mechansism is its cost shifting mechanism which relies on a minumum number of healthy young individuals purchasing plans on the exchanges.

ObamaCare's CBO scores were predicated on this cost shifting mechanism with the CBO projecting 22 million Americans buying policies on the exchanges by 2016.

The CBO was off by 12 Americans, and the 10 million or so that were buying policies were older sicker Americans, thats why Insurers are and have been bailing out of the exchanges.

That hasnt changed one bit. With premiums increasing, sky high deductibles and a lack of job oppurtunities over the last 8 years, young Americans are simply not participating in the exchanges.

The ACA cannot survive without a lot of healthy young individuals buying policies.

As for credibillity ? " The ACA is working and markets are stable " is not a credible statement.

Its more of the same from the Left, propaganda from a agenda that gave us ObamaCare and that is desperately trying to save it at the expense of our healthcare system

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Please re-read my post. I don't care about 'your interests'. I said I wish Republican voters would stop voting against their own interests. Like I wish Blue Collar Republicans would vote for Blue Collar interests instead of voting for the billionaires in this country's interests.

Never did understand why a Middle Class person would give a damn if DC wants to raise the taxes on billionaires. Billionaires sure as hell don't care when the MC taxes are raised.

Democrats dont represent Blue Collar workers or Middle Class Americans.

Their big govt, big regulation, tax and spend policies throws a wet blanket on economic growth, and drives out investment capital which leads to job creation and a strong and growing middle class

 

[Grand Mal]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The GOP has made this a major issue. And it failed. It failed because there are democrats not invested in working with the GOP and members of the party not willing to work to fix the problem. So...the US is stuck with the ACA. The GOP should make it clear that the piece of **** legislation known as the ACA remains the law of the land due to the democrats and the GOP members unwilling to work to fix it.

Liberals should love that...right? I mean...thevACA is AWESOME...right?

I don't know anything about the ACA, or who should love it or why. I don't understand why you all are trying to reinvent the wheel. There's umpteen versions of government-administered health insurance around the world. Just find one that does what you want it to do, see how it's been working and copy it.
But the day's coming- might have passed, in fact- when nobody will be able to blame the fustercluck on the Democrats anymore. The Democrats took what, a year? to get a version in place, and the Repubs have had all the years since to come up with an improvement and they can't get it together to get the simplest thing done.
Hell, I bet you can come up with an improvement. You probably have already. And I bet you know too why your scheme or any other doesn't have a chance of happening. You, me, and everyone else know that the GOP can't do it, can't govern. Best thing now, for them and their followers, is to find new ways to blame the Democrats.
Mark my words, this is gonna cost them.

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Risk corridors are bankrupt and States are currently suing the Federal Govt for Billions in lost revenues because they were forced to step in and commit money from their general funds to prop up their States failing exchanges.

The Obama admins risk corridor program NEVER stabilized anything, and no, exchanges are not currently stable.

ObamaCares inherent flaw, aka its self destruct mechansism is its cost shifting mechanism which relies on a minumum number of healthy young individuals purchasing plans on the exchanges.

ObamaCare's CBO scores were predicated on this cost shifting mechanism with the CBO projecting 22 million Americans buying policies on the exchanges by 2016.

The CBO was off by 12 Americans, and the 10 million or so that were buying policies were older sicker Americans, thats why Insurers are and have been bailing out of the exchanges.

That hasnt changed one bit. With premiums increasing, sky high deductibles and a lack of job oppurtunities over the last 8 years, young Americans are simply not participating in the exchanges.

The ACA cannot survive without a lot of healthy young individuals buying policies.

As for credibillity ? " The ACA is working and markets are stable " is not a credible statement.

Its more of the same from the Left, propaganda from a agenda that gave us ObamaCare and that is desperately trying to save it at the expense of our healthcare system

Can't give a detailed response because I'm on a tablet but, that post is incorrect in a number of ways. It fails to name the partisan decision to only pay out a small portion of the risk corridor program as the main force that drove insurers out of the market, in favor of fear mongering about the left and democrats.

Also, you might want to get a grip on reality because I've read articles citing stabilization in the exchanges. And greenbeard already showed you the truth a few posts ago. So, why would anyone go forward with posting facts for you in the face of absurdity?

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Democrats dont represent Blue Collar workers or Middle Class Americans.

Their big govt, big regulation, tax and spend policies throws a wet blanket on economic growth, and drives out investment capital which leads to job creation and a strong and growing middle class

Then how does Sweden hit 4% growth while collecting 40% of GDP in Federal Receipts?

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Can't give a detailed response because I'm on a tablet but, that post is incorrect in a number of ways. It fails to name the partisan decision to only pay out a small portion of the risk corridor program as the main force that drove insurers out of the market, in favor of fear mongering about the left and democrats.

Also, you might want to get a grip on reality because I've read articles citing stabilization in the exchanges. And greenbeard already showed you the truth a few posts ago. So, why would anyone go forward with posting facts for you in the face of absurdity?

Lol !

Risk corridors were supposed to shift the PROFITS of exchanges that had a sufficient number of young and healthy people on them to exchanges that had a disproportionate number of older sicker people on them.

Risk corridors were put in place to prop up exchanges that were causing insurers to lose money, and to keep insurers from leaving because of it.

But if by 2016 a disproportionate number of exchanges had sicker older people on them, then there's NO profit going into the risk corridors to shift around.

Now what part of the CBO missing its 2016 projection of people on the exchanges by 12 million do you not understand ?

Did the GOP force all those millenials to stay off the exchanges ?

These cost shifting mechanisms only ever worked hypothetically, they were the imaginagined by the ACAs architects who put their own left wing ideology and arrogance over market fundamentals and over the American people

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

So you like the GOP answer to that which is to cause even higher premiums and only give financial assistance to plans with $6000 or higher deductibles.

That is not the GOP answer. You are drinking the Democrat Kool-Aid.

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The GOP and the Dems are going to have to work together.

"Bi-Partisan"? That's a joke! Whenever you hear a Democrat extoll the benefits of bi-partisan, it means that he wants the Republicans to give up their genuinely held beliefs and cave in to the Democrats!

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Lol !

Risk corridors were supposed to shift the PROFITS of exchanges that had a sufficient number of young and healthy people on them to exchanges that had a disproportionate number of older sicker people on them.

Risk corridors were put in place to prop up exchanges that were causing insurers to lose money, and to keep insurers from leaving because of it.

But if by 2016 a disproportionate number of exchanges had sicker older people on them, then there's NO profit going into the risk corridors to shift around.

Now what part of the CBO missing its 2016 projection of people on the exchanges by 12 million do you not understand ?

Did the GOP force all those millenials to stay off the exchanges ?

These cost shifting mechanisms only ever worked hypothetically, they were the imaginagined by the ACAs architects who put their own left wing ideology and arrogance over market fundamentals and over the American people

Risk corridors were a temporary feature of the exchanges. They were designed to pay out losses to insurers that set their premiums too low, before their actuaries could get a decent sense of a market in flux, with money from insurers that set their premiums too high. What happened is most insurers set their premiums too low, rather than too high, while the market was in flux, so, there wasn't enough money to pay out losses. Now that the exchanges have stabilized, and like Greenbeard has already demonstrated to you, risk scores are not spiking, the insurers are setting accurate premiums, so, the risk corridors shouldn't go broke.

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Then how does Sweden hit 4% growth while collecting 40% of GDP in Federal Receipts?

First, Sweden has a population of what ? 10,00 million people and its Govt has been the poster child for austerity since the late 90s

It also has a established a debt ceiling, has been working on balancing its budget since the late 90s and is considered one of the most fiscally responsible Nations in Europe.

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

First, Sweden has a population of what ? 10,00 million people and its Govt has been the poster child for austerity since the late 90s

It also has a established a debt ceiling, has been working on balancing its budget since the late 90s and is considered one of the most fiscally responsible Nations in Europe.

Red herring

you said big gov, tax and spend, gov regulation throws a wet blanket on the economy, except when it doesn't, like in Sweden.

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

I don't know anything about the ACA, or who should love it or why. I don't understand why you all are trying to reinvent the wheel. There's umpteen versions of government-administered health insurance around the world. Just find one that does what you want it to do, see how it's been working and copy it.
But the day's coming- might have passed, in fact- when nobody will be able to blame the fustercluck on the Democrats anymore. The Democrats took what, a year? to get a version in place, and the Repubs have had all the years since to come up with an improvement and they can't get it together to get the simplest thing done.
Hell, I bet you can come up with an improvement. You probably have already. And I bet you know too why your scheme or any other doesn't have a chance of happening. You, me, and everyone else know that the GOP can't do it, can't govern. Best thing now, for them and their followers, is to find new ways to blame the Democrats.
Mark my words, this is gonna cost them.

What needs to be changed about health insurance cannot be included in a bill being considered under "reconciliation" rules. There are too many Democrats who are only interested in obstruction. There are several Democratic Senators representing states won by President Trump who are up for reelection in 2018. It appears that they are only interested in pleasing party leaders and are not concerned about any backlash from the voters.

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Risk corridors were a temporary feature of the exchanges. They were designed to pay out losses to insurers that set their premiums too low, before their actuaries could get a decent sense of a market in flux, with money from insurers that set their premiums too high. What happened is most insurers set their premiums too low, rather than too high, while the market was in flux, so, there wasn't enough money to pay out losses. Now that the exchanges have stabilized, and like Greenbeard has already demonstrated to you, risk scores are not spiking, the insurers are setting accurate premiums, so, the risk corridors shouldn't go broke.

Acturaries and market flux ? Huh ?

ObamaCares mandates on what insurers could sell and charge did away with actuarial data used to price risk into a policy and its mandates and regulations and price controls corrupted the market

Govt put limits on what Insurers could charge regardless of risk and mandated the purchase of a product they created.

There's no " market flux ", only 10s of millions of people, mostly young and healthy staying off the exchanges because premiums and deductibles are so high having insurance is pointless.

 

[Grand Mal]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

What needs to be changed about health insurance cannot be included in a bill being considered under "reconciliation" rules. There are too many Democrats who are only interested in obstruction. There are several Democratic Senators representing states won by President Trump who are up for reelection in 2018. It appears that they are only interested in pleasing party leaders and are not concerned about any backlash from the voters.

The House, the Senate, and the White House, all in Republican hands, and somehow you can still blame the Democrats.

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Acturaries and market flux ? Huh ?

ObamaCares mandates on what insurers could sell and charge did away with actuarial data used to price risk into a policy and its mandates and regulations and price controls corrupted the market

Govt put limits on what Insurers could charge regardless of risk and mandated the purchase of a product they created.

There's no " market flux ", only 10s of millions of people, mostly young and healthy staying off the exchanges because premiums and deductibles are so high having insurance is pointless.

Actuaries and a market in flux, yup.

Fenton, why did we pass PPACA anyway? To annoy the GOP? Or to fix American healthcare? You indicate that banning lifetime caps, or the 80/20 rule for one, "corrupts" the market, when the free market left to itself, gave Americans the highest premiums in the world and, a crappy healthcare product that covered less. American healthcare is much better off post-PPACA than pre, and I invite you to understand why, rather than stay sullen over partisan gamesmanship.

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The House, the Senate, and the White House, all in Republican hands, and somehow you can still blame the Democrats.

The GOP does not have complete control in the Senate. They would have to have 60 seats to be able to consider all the issues needed to be considered. The idea is to pass what can be passed under the restricting rules of "reconciliation". Then, after repeal, appeal to Democratic Senators who are from states won by Trump and are up for re-election in 2018. Yes, I still blame Democrats!

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Fenton, why did we pass PPACA anyway?

The Democrats are only interested in power.

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The Democrats are only interested in power.

Meh...

 

[gmeyers1944]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Meh...

You can do better than that.

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Actuaries and a market in flux, yup.

Fenton, why did we pass PPACA anyway? To annoy the GOP? Or to fix American healthcare? You indicate that banning lifetime caps, or the 80/20 rule for one, "corrupts" the market, when the free market left to itself, gave Americans the highest premiums in the world and, a crappy healthcare product that covered less. American healthcare is much better off post-PPACA than pre, and I invite you to understand why, rather than stay sullen over partisan gamesmanship.

You mean why did the Democrats and Obama passed the PPACA ? "We " are not responsible for ObamaCare and its predicted and subsequent failures and by no means are we better off now than we were prior to the ACA.

I get thats the talking point coming from the party that is desperate to salvage their reputation after staggering losses over the last 7 years ( in large part because of the ACA ) but to the average American, its just insulting propaganda.

The Democrats took advantage of a Dem majority in both Houses and a ambitious new and inexperienced President to pass a legacy defining healthcare law.

They tried it under Clinton and couldnt do it, so now was the time. Its too bad they never gave a second thought to its viability and its impact once it was passed.