McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal O

[iguanaman]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Regardless of Arizona's unique culture, an estimated seven hundred thousand of his own constituents would have lost their insurance if his gamble had failed. Has that fact appeared in McCain's reasoning?

I did hear McCain say that he was in contact with his Governor and that if he said the bill would be bad for Arizonans he would vote no.

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

This can become a philosophical question obviously, but I disagree.

The Representatives sent to Washington represent the wishes of the people. And the people can indeed send a Representative to office specifically to tear down the government mechanisms, if that's their wish! The Rep takes an oath to the Constitution, but beyond that he represents his constituents will. And he or she is not obligated to any specific implementation of governance, besides that of fidelity to the Constitution.

I'm just arguing the singular technical point here, not the specifics of the health-care issue.

The fine print permits them to serve.

But, my overall message is the tea party people are too brainwashed to govern. They are brainwashed by a version of Koch libertarianism, which is basically an intense longing for a volcanic island without an EPA or IRS, where they can subjugate the natives, mine zinc from their mountains, pollute the rivers, sell off the zinc, keep the profits, and everyone else can die for not being born on the lucky side of the Randian spectrum.

Those deluded dip****s don't belong in congress, when there are people who want to serve society and watch it grow.

We live in the most prosperous nation on the planet. How is it that millenials are on par to do worse than their parents? We have the technology and the wealth to live in an American society that harbors the least amount of human suffering. We need the intellectual fortitude to design a system that encourages cohabitation, opportunity, fraternity, growth. And if neanderthals are standing in the way because their memaw and grandpaw hated Social Security and FDR, and their ma and paw hated LBJ because of Medicare.. I got two options for them:

Volcanic island subjugating natives to mine zinc.
Steam rolled by a progressive future.

Self-absorbed public policy needs to go the way of the do do

 

[JasperL]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Actually a minimum income would reduce the cost of all the freebies we have now. It would be cheaper. Also it is not at all utopian as you seem to believe and was almost introduced in the USA after trail runs had shown it to be viable.
So, if it is cheaper and economically viable, why would the GOP be against it. After all, it would be the Democrats that would. E the big loseres.

Terrific, it was ALMOST introduced! Hell, that's an indication of huge support that someone almost put a bill together!

And I'm not going to guess about why the GOP would be against it because it doesn't matter. As you acknowledge, it's not on the radar, it's never been introduced, there is no indication it could get to 60 votes in the Senate, or a majority in the House, and assuming it into this reality as a basis against which to judge the ACA is nonsense. While you're at it, why not assume "world peace" into your analysis? We'd pay for healthcare many times over if we could zero out the military and related!

 

[disneydude]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Democrats ****ing voted FOR ObamaCare, Obama signed it.

Theyre shut out of the process because theyre the minority who since 2010 suffered staggering losses at the local State and Federal levels. Much of that due to ObamaCare.

They royally ****ed up our Healthcare system once already, why would any sane person want their input on how to fix it ?

Oh please......Obama bent over backward to try to get the Republicans to work with him on the ACA....even going so far as the put in their Heritage Foundation insurance mandate as part of the ACA and they STILL refused to participate because McConnell had given them the directive to oppose everything and anything that Obama did so that they could fulfill his #1 goal to make Obama a one-term President. You need to check your history Fen.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

That sounds very much like how Washington operates. Good point.

Thanks. :cheers:

I love theory and ideas, but I try not to let it get in the way of real-life pragmatic skepticism.

I strive for my ideologies, but realize it often takes Machiavellian techniques to pull them off. Theory, without successful practice, is nothing! I'm equally content working in either domain ...

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The fine print permits them to serve.

But, my overall message is the tea party people are too brainwashed to govern. They are brainwashed by a version of Koch libertarianism, which is basically an intense longing for a volcanic island without an EPA or IRS, where they can subjugate the natives, mine zinc from their mountains, pollute the rivers, sell off the zinc, keep the profits, and everyone else can die for not being born on the lucky side of the Randian spectrum.

Those deluded dip****s don't belong in congress, when there are people who want to serve society and watch it grow.

We live in the most prosperous nation on the planet. How is it that millenials are on par to do worse than their parents? We have the technology and the wealth to live in an American society that harbors the least amount of human suffering. We need the intellectual fortitude to design a system that encourages cohabitation, opportunity, fraternity, growth. And if neanderthals are standing in the way because their memaw and grandpaw hated Social Security and FDR, and their ma and paw hated LBJ because of Medicare.. I got two options for them:

Volcanic island subjugating natives to mine zinc.
Steam rolled by a progressive future.

Self-absorbed public policy needs to go the way of the do do

We have been doing the "They are too defective to be allowed to speak, much less be taken seriously" program for some time now, and look at where we are........

*SEE SIG*

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

What???

Talk about unable to face reality!

Absolutely, after meeting with McCain for 3 to 4 times a day, Schumer had zero influence on McCains decision to vote with the Democrats ?

 

[Chomsky]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

The fine print permits them to serve.

But, my overall message is the tea party people are too brainwashed to govern. They are brainwashed by a version of Koch libertarianism, which is basically an intense longing for a volcanic island without an EPA or IRS, where they can subjugate the natives, mine zinc from their mountains, pollute the rivers, sell off the zinc, keep the profits, and everyone else can die for not being born on the lucky side of the Randian spectrum.

Those deluded dip****s don't belong in congress, when there are people who want to serve society and watch it grow.

We live in the most prosperous nation on the planet. How is it that millenials are on par to do worse than their parents? We have the technology and the wealth to live in an American society that harbors the least amount of human suffering. We need the intellectual fortitude to design a system that encourages cohabitation, opportunity, fraternity, growth. And if neanderthals are standing in the way because their memaw and grandpaw hated Social Security and FDR, and their ma and paw hated LBJ because of Medicare.. I got two options for them:

Volcanic island subjugating natives to mine zinc.
Steam rolled by a progressive future.

Self-absorbed public policy needs to go the way of the do do

You know from my posts I agree!

But I was pointing-out the specific point that the Representatives first duty, after the Constitution, is to their constituents.

So on the surface, it would seem the problem is with their constituents. Largely, it is. But the Representatives and the party are more than complicit, because they in fact lead and drive the wishes of their Constituents! Together, that is a massive problem and got us where we are today.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Absolutely, after meeting with McCain for 3 to 4 times a day, Schumer had zero influence on McCains decision to vote with the Democrats ?

Oh comon, I saw your original statement.

And yeah, the Senators meet and discuss. It's called "democracy". What's the problem here?

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Oh please......Obama bent over backward to try to get the Republicans to work with him on the ACA....even going so far as the put in their Heritage Foundation insurance mandate as part of the ACA and they STILL refused to participate because McConnell had given them the directive to oppose everything and anything that Obama did so that they could fulfill his #1 goal to make Obama a one-term President. You need to check your history Fen.

Why on earth would Obama want or need GOP influence let alone GOP votes ?
Here's how you work with Obama and the Democrats, they tell you their ideas and agenda, and foundatio, done.

And the mandates came from the ACAs idiot archtects, not Obama via the Heritage foundation

 

[JasperL]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Absolutely, after meeting with McCain for 3 to 4 times a day, Schumer had zero influence on McCains decision to vote with the Democrats ?

First of all, it's amazing you see a conspiracy in one Democrat Senator talking to another Republican Senator about a bill. This new Trump era is very strange indeed.

Second, it is awful that this happened :roll: but how did the evil Schumer prevent republicans from also meeting/talking with McCain 3-4 times per day? Can't wait to hear how he pulled this off and was apparently the only guy McCain talked to or listened to.

Either that or McCain, knowing his last election is behind him, is totally able to make the rational decision that a POS bill passed with a POS process, that the Senators voting YES DID NOT WANT TO BECOME LAW, was a POS bill and voted NO on that POS. :doh

Not sure which is more likely, tough call, but I'm leaning toward the latter and that Alex Jones level stupid conspiracy theory not necessary to explain totally rational vote...

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Oh comon, I saw your original statement.

And yeah, the Senators meet and discuss. It's called "democracy". What's the problem here?

Why would Schumer focus on turning the one GOP law maker who's suffering from brain cancer ?

Who's no doubt medicated, who' already publicly displayed cognitive issues related to his diagnoses ?

 

[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

You know from my posts I agree!

But I was pointing-out the specific point that the Representatives first duty, after the Constitution, is to their constituents.

So on the surface, it would seem the problem is with their constituents. Largely, it is. But the Representatives and the party are more than complicit, because they in fact lead and drive the wishes of their Constituents! Together, that is a massive problem and got us where we are today.

IMO, the constituents are using a small government talking point to disguise an unwillingness to share the spoils of capitalism with everyone.

Meaning capitalism produces such lop sided distributions that those who benefit from the system will never want for cancer treatment if they get sick. They could put them and their entire families through treatment, they could put entire towns through treatment.. Capitalism produces such lop sided distributions... For a few people.

For many people they can't afford treatment for even 1 person. So, the government must seize income and redistribute it into a collective societal healthcare budget. But we can't get the fossils in congress to legislate healthcare as if they were crafting policy with the thoughts and intentions for 350 million Americans.

All thoughts and intentions are for the me first and the gimme gimme crowd.

 

[slo1111]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Trump considers anything he can sign a win, no matter what it does or doesn't do. That's f'ing pathetic.

Hit it on the head. They could have put a bag of dog doo, place it on his desk, set it on fire, said, "here is the new healthcare bill", and he would sign it, saying how wonderful it is.



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[Nilly]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Huh ? They BOTH voted for a full repeal back when they knew Obama could and would veto it

Theye two faced POS Politicians

Wow. TIL that Republican voters actually believe the spiel their party spews.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

McCain and Collins are two face POS.

They defied the king, send them to the dungeon!

 

[Fenton]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

How did the evil Schumer prevent republicans from also meeting with McCain 3-4 times per day? Can't wait to hear how he pulled this off and was apparently the only guy McCain talked to.

Either that or McCain, knowing his last election is behind him, is totally able to make the rational decision that a POS bill passed with a POS process, that the Senators voting YES DID NOT WANT TO BECOME LAW, was a POS bill and voted NO on that POS. :doh

Not sure which is more likely, tough call, but I'm leaning toward the latter and that Alex Jones level stupid conspiracy theory not necessary to explain totally rational vote...

Oh FFS....
McCains decision to allow a failing healthcare law thats currentlly coming apart at the seems and hurting millions of hard working American families to continue on was far from rationale.

Voting with the very party that created this mess is far from rationale, and claiming that we should return to a bipartisan process and work with the party thats responsible for the ACA is far from rationale.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Why would Schumer focus on turning the one GOP law maker who's suffering from brain cancer ?

Who's no doubt medicated, who' already publicly displayed cognitive issues related to his diagnoses ?

So your argument is John McCain is not qualified to cast a vote?

WTH?

Your completely ridiculous, here.

But who knows? Maybe Hannity will pick it up.

 

[disneydude]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Why on earth would Obama want or need GOP influence let alone GOP votes ?
Here's how you work with Obama and the Democrats, they tell you their ideas and agenda, and foundatio, done.

And the mandates came from the ACAs idiot archtects, not Obama via the Heritage foundation

Is your memory that poor? Were you too young to understand? Or were you just not paying attention? Obama started out wanting to be this great consensus builder despite McConnell's directs to oppose everything and anything that he proposed. Obama was naive....probably one of his biggest faults. After he couldn't get 1 single Republican to go along with the public option and losing a few bluedog democrats, he still believed that he could reach out to Republicans by including their Insurance Mandate. You Fen....are wrong about the Insurance mandate. Do your homework. It was part of Republican plans before Obama ever included it in the ACA. It was an idea that arose out of the Heritage Foundation...and it was offered as an alternative to the public option to try to appease Republicans and bluedogs. In the end...the bluedogs came on board but the Republicans refused to even get on board with their own ideas, demonstrating that they weren't interested in working together, their only goal was to oppose everything and anything that Obama proposed. This is how they came to be known as the "Party of No". Do your homework next time.

 

[disneydude]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Why would Schumer focus on turning the one GOP law maker who's suffering from brain cancer ?

Who's no doubt medicated, who' already publicly displayed cognitive issues related to his diagnoses ?

Hmmmm....lets see......maybe perhaps because he sensed that McCain was possibly a vote that he could get as opposed to the other 49 Republicans that demonstrated that they only wanted to play games. Do you have any clue how the Senate process works? You might want to do a little homework so that you understand before you attempt to participate in a discussion.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

IMO, the constituents are using a small government talking point to disguise an unwillingness to share the spoils of capitalism with everyone.

Meaning capitalism produces such lop sided distributions that those who benefit from the system will never want for cancer treatment if they get sick. They could put them and their entire families through treatment, they could put entire towns through treatment.. Capitalism produces such lop sided distributions... For a few people.

For many people they can't afford treatment for even 1 person. So, the government must seize income and redistribute it into a collective societal healthcare budget. But we can't get the fossils in congress to legislate healthcare as if they were crafting policy with the thoughts and intentions for 350 million Americans.

All thoughts and intentions are for the me first and the gimme gimme crowd.

You are likely correct in the bolded, but the constituents do have that right, as they have right to have their wishes expressed via their representative. Regardless of what you or I think.

It's called democracy.

And that's the way it works.

You want to change it, you've got to change the constituent's minds.

 

[exoplanet]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

It's looking more and more like Trump is already a lame duck president. He has little, if any influence in the Senate. In fact, it's probably better for him to remove himself from the process altogether, but we know that's not going to happen.

It's hard to see the Democrats getting Congress back in one election cycle, but if I had to bet right now, the margins for legislative victories are only going to get smaller for Trump.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

It should also be noted that Collins and Murkowski were early "no's" because the bills were bad for their constituents, whereas McCain jumped in at the end because he didn't like the process.

So is it a good thing that McCain's third vote helped kill the bill? Yes, obviously. But he used skewed priorities to arrive at a correct decision.

Not once in his entire speech to the Senate did he make a point about the harm repeal would do to the people of their states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...t-john-mccains-senate-floor-speech/509799001/

I'm grateful McCain isn't my Senator, because he's shown that he would vote for a harmful bill if he felt the process was right.

:eye roll:




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[Winston]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

You are likely correct in the bolded, but the constituents do have that right, as they have right to have their wishes expressed via their representative. Regardless of what you or I think.

It's called democracy.

And that's the way it works.

You want to change it, you've got to change the constituent's minds.

Which is why a 50 state strategy and left wing economic populism are so important for the Democrats to embrace. First we have to drag them kicking and screaming along, in order to drag the right kicking and screaming along.

I believe a Bernie sanders vision, given the right exposure can win in a state like Kansas. But, dems can't run mamby pamby campaigns, that their donors are comfortable with.

 

[JasperL]

Re: McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repe

Oh FFS....
McCains decision to allow a failing healthcare law thats currentlly coming apart at the seems and hurting millions of hard working American families to continue on was far from rationale.

Voting with the very party that created this mess is far from rationale, and claiming that we should return to a bipartisan process and work with the party thats responsible for the ACA is far from rationale.

Right, who but an irrational idiot votes NO on a bill that those voting YES do not want to become law? It's a mystery how anyone could vote NO on a bill they and the rest of the Senate know is a POS so need assurances from the House they will NOT pass that POS as is.

Good point. Thanks for clarifying!