Maybe it's time for a split?

[ashurbanipal]

If you are unable to find common ground with other people, the problem lies entirely with you. Maybe instead of listening to nutso talking heads to tell you what other people think, you might try actually asking them politely what they think. Until you figure out how to do that, the problem is in your end.

Obviously false. I have no common ground with Nazis. I'm the problem? No, I don't think so.

 

[Grim17]

I would suggest looking at what Thailand has had to do over the last 10 years. It has had and has a large disparity between urban and rural voters. It eventually elected a populist president and almost devolved into a real civil war. The military stepped in removed the president from power and has been under military rule pretty much sense. It does not help that it's king is a waste of skin.

To be honest I don't know what the US can do. The divide is rural vs urban for the most part ( I am counting smaller cities as rural in this case) and I don't see that changing. The problem going on is that cities are and will be the largest generators of economic activity and productivity. This has led to poor economic outlooks for rural people and in the city you have the underclass which has its own problems . Both groups with issues are angry and showing it. Hence the open up anti government protests by people against the shutdown and anti government/police protests by people who tend to live in the city.

A mass reorganization of the US might do it. Where the major cities are turned into states and water rights controlled by the federal government. In that way the cities which have different requirements for effective governing will have the power to do so. Then the more rural areas will be able to govern the way they want to

I appreciate you taking the time to write a well thought out response free from finger pointing and vitriol. The fact that so few have offered anything more than partisan, vitriolic responses, highlights the lack of tolerance for opposing views I mentioned in my op.

Your idea is worth looking into, but I my first thought is that a reorganization won't work. A reorganization like you're talking about requires a level of cooperation and compromise that I don't think either side is capable of now, and I don't see it getting any better in the future.

.

 

[X Factor]

After watching all that's been happening not only in the last few weeks, but over the last 4 years, it's finally gotten to the point where I don't see a future for the country. Unfortunately, I think the political and societal division has reached the point of no return, and I just don't see any possibility that both sides can work together and effectively govern the nation going forward.

For the last week I have experienced something I have never in my life have had to deal with... I call it "national depression". No matter what has happened or what the country has faced over my lifetime, never once did I ever doubt that America would recover... Never... That is until now. With the division surrounding the coronavirus lock downs and now the unimpeded rioting that's going on, it's led me to a very sad and shocking conclusion... I don't think there's enough common ground left between the 2 sides, and I'm talking both politically and socially, for any kind of reconciliation to take place. I don't say this lightly, but for lack of a better way to describe the situation, I believe we are now effectively in a civil war.

Just as I have my opinions on who's to blame, so does everyone else, but that's not what this post is about. I don't want this to devolve into the typical finger pointing and blaming one side or the other for where we find ourselves today. It's a post for pondering the question "Where do we go from here?"

The way I see it, we have two sides with completely different visions for America's future. They disagree on the meaning and importance of the constitution, on what is and isn't considered free speech, on what constitutes freedom and liberty, on the rights we have as individuals, on what laws should and shouldn't exist, on how the country should be governed, and on the amount of power that should be given to the federal government as well as individual states. Since both sides have demonstrated over the last hand full of years that they're no longer willing to compromise, and the tolerance of opposing views has all but vanished, I think it's time we give serious consideration to splitting the country up into two separately governed nations. Of course I can't fathom how such a thing could ever be achieved, or whether such a thing is even possible, but at this point it's the only idea I've had in quite a while that has given me a ray of hope.

Without pointing fingers, does anyone have any thoughts on this or other possible solutions?

.

Try not to feel so grim. We’ve been socially isolated (y’know, for our own good) for awhile now. That already had a distinctly unAmerican feel to it. Then we zoomed right into watching a man, literally, murdered in front of us and it ignited a powder keg that’s now gone too far, in my opinion, in portraying cops as the enemy. There’ll be changes, some good, some ineffective and some that’ll prove unworkable. Life will return to normal. People, including minorities, will still look to police for help and, in time, it’ll be less unpopular to want to treat them fairly. We’re gonna be ok.

 

[X Factor]

Do you ever post something other than personal shots?

Let’s not pretend what I responded to was of any particular value to anything. Why do you want people you don’t agree with to just be quiet?

 

[Grim17]

Give most power back to the states and ost of this would be irrelevant.

I would be all for that, but it would require our elected representatives in the federal government to voluntarily relinquish a good chunk of their power... I don't know about you, but I don't see that as even a remote possibility.

.

 

[ecofarm]

Ok, why you want people you don’t agree with to just be quiet?

It's not about disagreement. It's about racist scumbags thinking their tiny number means something.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I appreciate you taking the time to write a well thought out response free from finger pointing and vitriol. The fact that so few have offered anything more than partisan, vitriolic responses, highlights the lack of tolerance for opposing views I mentioned in my op.

Your idea is worth looking into, but I my first thought is that a reorganization won't work. A reorganization like you're talking about requires a level of cooperation and compromise that I don't think either side is capable of now, and I don't see it getting any better in the future.

.

It would be very difficult no doubt and full of vitriol and potential violence.

I could imagine fights over water sources which is why the Fed would have to controll that. Then municipal waste would be a big issue, the disposal of solid and of course human waste could lead to conflict as well.

I have thought for a long time that NYC should be it's own state given its interests and needs are quite a bit different than rural New York.

 

[X Factor]

It's not about disagreement. It's about racist scumbags thinking their tiny number means something.

Really? Since when have you not taken disagreement as being just the same as racism?

 

[Mycroft]

The eight years of the Clinton presidency were good years for America. The eight years of the Obama presidency were good years for America.

Eight years of Joe Biden will be good years too.




Unless you're so rich that you're greatly benefiting from Trump's tax cuts on the wealthy.

Trump didn't slow illegal immigration a bit. Republicans need illegal immigration to man their factories with cheap workers.

Trump was never going to get in the way of illegal immigration.

The eight years of Clinton led to Osama bin Laden and 9/11. The eight years of Obama led to the greatest use of government power against citizens of the US in our entire history. (except, maybe, Japanese internment camps).

And that entire 16 years along with eight years of Bush saw our country's economy spiral into the toilet and saw illegal immigration virtually unchecked.

 

[Grim17]

Would that be like 90/10 split? What percentage of the US would you say is on your "side"?

What do you mean "my side"? I didn't start this thread to discuss ideological beliefs or to butt heads with people.

 

[ecofarm]

Really? Since when have you not taken disagreement as being just the same as racism?

Yeah, really. Civil war bs to preserve their racist "values".

 

[veritas1]

I would be all for that, but it would require our elected representatives in the federal government to voluntarily relinquish a good chunk of their power... I don't know about you, but I don't see that as even a remote possibility.

.

Power, once surrendered, is never recovered. History has shown that again and again. It's why not a scintilla of additional power should be given to the radical left.

 

[ecofarm]

Power, once surrendered, is never recovered. History has shown that again and again. It's why not a scintilla of additional power should be given to the radical left.

Too late. Trump has destroyed the Republican party. Get ready for a massive power transfer.

 

[swing_voter]

The eight years of Clinton led to Osama bin Laden and 9/11. The eight years of Obama led to the greatest use of government power against citizens of the US in our entire history. (except, maybe, Japanese internment camps).

And that entire 16 years along with eight years of Bush saw our country's economy spiral into the toilet and saw illegal immigration virtually unchecked.

*hand waving*

Under CIA's Operation Cyclone from 1979 to 1989, the United States and Saudi Arabia provided $40 billion worth of financial aid and weapons to almost 100,000 Mujahideen and "Afghan Arabs" from forty Muslim countries through Pakistan's ISI.[99] British journalist Jason Burke wrote that "bin Laden's Office of Services, set up to recruit overseas for the war, received some US cash.

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia



We met Osama bin Laden in 1980 when he was killing Russians in Afghanistan. That's Reagan years.





.

 

[BlueTex]

What do you mean "my side"? I didn't start this thread to discuss ideological beliefs or to butt heads with people.

You are asking if it's time to split, I am asking what percentage of the US would be in your side of the split.

 

[Mycroft]

*hand waving*

Under CIA's Operation Cyclone from 1979 to 1989, the United States and Saudi Arabia provided $40 billion worth of financial aid and weapons to almost 100,000 Mujahideen and "Afghan Arabs" from forty Muslim countries through Pakistan's ISI.[99] British journalist Jason Burke wrote that "bin Laden's Office of Services, set up to recruit overseas for the war, received some US cash.

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia



We met Osama bin Laden in 1980 when he was killing Russians in Afghanistan. That's Reagan years.





.

Yep, and later...when bin Laden started targeting the US, Clinton had multiple opportunities to take him out. All before 9/11.

 

[veritas1]

Yeah, really. Civil war bs to preserve their racist "values".

The racists are the ones who took on the mantle of white guilt and then went about patronizing blacks, destroying their families, destroying their communities and establishing a web of dependency that keeps them relevant to this day by thwarting any real progress. Whenever that relevance is threatened, they double down on the race rhetoric and make sure to drive a wedge between the races. Their media lackeys make sure only the most strident voices and the ones most heavily invested in grievance politics are the ones heard and legitimized. They are all about keeping power and shameless in their exploitation of blacks. They are called liberal Democrats and they are a millstone about the necks of racial minorities. Until they have been removed as the arbiters of how blacks can think and act, failure will continue to be the order of the day.

 

[X Factor]

Yeah, really. Civil war bs to preserve their racist "values".

Well, if you don’t like the way things are done here in the US, you can always go to CHAZ. :lol:

 

[ecofarm]

Well, if you don’t like the way things are done here in the US, you can always go to CHAZ. :lol:

That's stupid.

 

[Dayton3]

After watching all that's been happening not only in the last few weeks, but over the last 4 years, it's finally gotten to the point where I don't see a future for the country. Unfortunately, I think the political and societal division has reached the point of no return, and I just don't see any possibility that both sides can work together and effectively govern the nation going forward.

For the last week I have experienced something I have never in my life have had to deal with... I call it "national depression". No matter what has happened or what the country has faced over my lifetime, never once did I ever doubt that America would recover... Never... That is until now. With the division surrounding the coronavirus lock downs and now the unimpeded rioting that's going on, it's led me to a very sad and shocking conclusion... I don't think there's enough common ground left between the 2 sides, and I'm talking both politically and socially, for any kind of reconciliation to take place. I don't say this lightly, but for lack of a better way to describe the situation, I believe we are now effectively in a civil war.

Just as I have my opinions on who's to blame, so does everyone else, but that's not what this post is about. I don't want this to devolve into the typical finger pointing and blaming one side or the other for where we find ourselves today. It's a post for pondering the question "Where do we go from here?"

The way I see it, we have two sides with completely different visions for America's future. They disagree on the meaning and importance of the constitution, on what is and isn't considered free speech, on what constitutes freedom and liberty, on the rights we have as individuals, on what laws should and shouldn't exist, on how the country should be governed, and on the amount of power that should be given to the federal government as well as individual states. Since both sides have demonstrated over the last hand full of years that they're no longer willing to compromise, and the tolerance of opposing views has all but vanished, I think it's time we give serious consideration to splitting the country up into two separately governed nations. Of course I can't fathom how such a thing could ever be achieved, or whether such a thing is even possible, but at this point it's the only idea I've had in quite a while that has given me a ray of hope.

Without pointing fingers, does anyone have any thoughts on this or other possible solutions?

.

No offense but it is stupid beyond belief. How would you split up the United States given as intermingled American citizens are. ?

 

[X Factor]

The racists are the ones who took on the mantle of white guilt and then went about patronizing blacks, destroying their families, destroying their communities and establishing a web of dependency that keeps them relevant to this day by thwarting any real progress. Whenever that relevance is threatened, they double down on the race rhetoric and make sure to drive a wedge between the races. Their media lackeys make sure only the most strident voices and the ones most heavily invested in grievance politics are the ones heard and legitimized. They are all about keeping power and shameless in their exploitation of blacks. They are called liberal Democrats and they are a millstone about the necks of racial minorities. Until they have been removed as the arbiters of how blacks can think and act, failure will continue to be the order of the day.

And just wait and see what happens when cops are barred from entering certain neighborhoods.

 

[Grim17]

Power, once surrendered, is never recovered. History has shown that again and again. It's why not a scintilla of additional power should be given to the radical left.

That's part of why I made this post... Instead of this constant left/right battle for power and control, let the left do things their way, and the right do things their way. but in separate countries. That way both sides get what they want and the people will then have both the opportunity to decide the kind of country they want to live in, and will be able to see first hand what works and what doesn't.

.

 

[veritas1]

Too late. Trump has destroyed the Republican party. Get ready for a massive power transfer.

The only thing Trump has done is be virulently attacked by a gaggle of liars for 3+ years.

 

[veritas1]

That's part of why I made this post... Instead of this constant left/right battle for power and control, let the left do things their way, and the right do things their way. but in separate countries. That way both sides get what they want and the people will then have both the opportunity to decide the kind of country they want to live in, and will be able to see first hand what works and what doesn't.

.

Sounds good. When do the leftists pack up and leave?:lol:

 

[X Factor]

That's stupid.

They’re the ones claiming it’s not the US anymore. If that’s stupid, take it up with them.