Maybe American car manufacturers should bring back simple, easy-to-maintain automobiles(perhaps successful models from the 1950s - 1970s).

[Peacenik]

I think a lot of the difference in longevity is due to better oil. New Mexico is a challenging environment for motors. My '72 Datsun PU, running conventional oil, was burning a fair amount of it by 170K. My '84, running Arco Graphite its first 100K, and Mobil1 plus Moly for the balance, was still getting 5K per quart at 199K. My '97, with the Mobil1 plus Moly diet, is getting about 4K per quart at 277K.

As to cost of replacement parts: I understand it now costs up to 1K to replace the fancy LED headlight assemblies. On any of my trucks, replacement of a headlight is about $10. But on my '97, it requires removing the grille. It did not on the earlier models.

The led lights far outlast the incandescent, and they perform way better.

Interesting comment about the oil. It's not the only factor. The engine parts have tighter tolerances now. Newer models use thinner oil.

 

[Kelby]

You won't fare well when the apocalypse happens.

Is that coming up again?

 

[coyote505]

Yep, I seem to recall a sporty 2 seater Toyota from the early 90s(MR-2?) that literally required the motor mounts of it's rear engine to be removed and the engine raised in order to replace spark plugs! That's just ridiculous, but not for the mechanics who make bank for doing it!

Some of the GM X cars with V6 required this also.

 

[eohrnberger]

The led lights far outlast the incandescent, and they perform way better.

Hmm. Have they addressed the glaring overly brightness which blinds oncoming drivers?

Interesting comment about the oil. It's not the only factor. The engine parts have tighter tolerances now. Newer models use thinner oil.

Indeed. A great deal of research went into figuring out how to make those tolerances that tight, yet manufacturable at scale, and affordable to manufacture.

 

[justoneman]

Some of the GM X cars with V6 required this also.

Those were the ones I was thinking of.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Yeah, but it doesn't seem like any of the American manufacturers have considered the concept of designing simpler cars that the average person can repair.

That's because simpler cars are neither government mandated nor desired in a mass market way. Smaller, safer, cleaner cars are what manufacturers are focusing on.

I'm reminded of a quote from the Lee Iacocca (Father of the Ford Mustang and savior of Chrysler) autobiography when back in the 50s when someone suggested carmakers could offer seatbelts as an option.

"No!" was the response. "Our customers will think our cars are not safe!"

My 90 year-old FIL is still pissed that he can't have a new car with hand cranked windows.

 

[Helix]

Ahh yes. Those are fantastic looking sheet metal sculptures, works of art.
And so scary when you look underneath at what passed for brakes, steering and suspension back then.

I'd be for bringing back the works of art with the modern safety and amenities.

I've been watching a guy rebuild a field find 1958 Plymouth on YouTube. It was pretty much beyond repair, but he's doing it anyway. It's cool to watch the progress.

 

[eohrnberger]

I've been watching a guy rebuild a field find 1958 Plymouth on YouTube. It was pretty much beyond repair, but he's doing it anyway. It's cool to watch the progress.

My hats off to those who can perform that work, at the high quality they do, and have the patience for it.
I'm a little short on at least 2 of them.

 

[Helix]

My hats off to those who can perform that work, at the high quality they do, and have the patience for it.
I'm a little short on at least 2 of them.

Yep, dude definitely has patience and calm to go with the skill. When he comes up against a hopelessly rotten panel, he just makes a new one out of sheet metal and welds it on. It's pretty incredible.

 

[coyote505]

Cars today are much safer, much more efficient and require far less maintenance.

Also cup holders!

Yeah. I recall sitting in a C generation Miata and bracing my left knee against the door, like for a hard right turn. Ran right into a hard plastic cup holder.
Decided that this was not a real Miata, having been designed by a minivan mom.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

The led lights far outlast the incandescent, and they perform way better.

Interesting comment about the oil. It's not the only factor. The engine parts have tighter tolerances now. Newer models use thinner oil.

Another comment on oil: My daughter was a student out of state in Lincoln, Nebraska. She had her car with her for over nine months when we went for a visit. I decided to get her oil changed while I was there.

"This car is not due for an oil change. It's got less than 2000 miles since the last one," said the mechanic, much to my surprise. "These new synthetic oils don't break down over time like the old oils used to. Now, just check your mileage to know when you're due."

Wow! Learned something new and found an honest mechanic in the same day!

 

[uptower]

Ironically - as if the OP was being serious of course - it would likely cost more now to replicate older cars and mass produce them.

 

[RF667799]

Fortunately, cars from the 60s and 70s only have to pass emissions standards from the years they were produced. So, maybe there's a loophole that would benefit 1960s and 70s cars if reproduced now. But I think they could incorporate a simple, effective emissions system without a gazillion sensors and a computer.

They've needed those computers and sensors to this point. Do you remember how crappy some of the 70s and 80s cars ran under the burden of their more primitive emissions systems?

If you want a simpler, easier to work on car...then buy a lower mileage earlier vehicle and have fun. I see pickup trucks from the late 70s to 90s selling for fair prices. Say 70s "square body" Chevys with 70 or 80 thousand miles, rust free and in good mechanical health. 7 or 8 thousand dollars. (They have some collector value.) That's a bargain for someone who wants to maintain his own ride and doesn't want to lay out tens of thousands for a new truck.

barn finds.com is a good site for looking at available restored, survivor, collectibles, and just plain interesting vehicles.

 

[BabaVoss]

In my younger days it was impossible to find a car with more than 50k miles at a mainline dealer, those cars were sent to auction. Today those same dealers sell cars with 130k on the odometer, simply because they do last longer. I wonder if nostalgia clouds the memories of some.

Indeed it does. The old cars sucked in many ways. And they were incredibly unsafe.

 

[eohrnberger]

Another comment on oil: My daughter was a student out of state in Lincoln, Nebraska. She had her car with her for over nine months when we went for a visit. I decided to get her oil changed while I was there.

"This car is not due for an oil change. It's got less than 2000 miles since the last one," said the mechanic, much to my surprise. "These new synthetic oils don't break down over time like the old oils used to. Now, just check your mileage to know when you're due."

Indeed. I recall when the oil change interval was like 3,500 miles, and now it's like up to 15,000 or something equally ridiculous.
Well, when the pistons don't have even the slightest blow by, there's no combustion soot int he oil reducing its lubricating properties.

Wow! Learned something new and found an honest mechanic in the same day!

When you find one, you keep him!

 

[Cameron]

Why don’t we all go back to thatch houses and get rid of indoor plumbing while we’re at it?

 

[notquiteright]

Won't pass emissions, won't pass safety standards, won't help with cafe ratings. Welcome to the progressive regulatory state, where politicians decide what kind of car you may buy.

Such a MAGA whine. True will not pass emission standards, will get horrible gas mileage, most older cars are death traps in a major accident, repairs are easier but lack features most of us who don't drink Kool-Aid appreciate. Cruise control, in dash navigation, Bluetooth, lane monitor, my fav is the distance setting, so I don't have to worry about other vehicle speeds. Self-braking if the front vehicle suddenly slows.
Politicians didn't decide this, consumers did....
My 67 Stang is a fond memory, but I'm not looking for it or a car like it. Time marches on, curmudgeons sit and morn the past and blame progress...

 

[aociswundumho]

True will not pass emission standards, will get horrible gas mileage,

Wrong. Emission controls reduce fuel mileage. Cummins diesels used to get close to 30 mpg on the highway prior to the government ruining them to the point where Cummins has to now produce a gas engine for trucks.

most older cars are death traps in a major accident, repairs are easier but lack features most of us

Those decisions should be made by individual consumers, not the rotten government.

who don't drink Kool-Aid appreciate. Cruise control, in dash navigation, Bluetooth, lane monitor, my fav is the distance setting,

I don't need or want any of that shit, and neither do millions of others.

so I don't have to worry about other vehicle speeds. Self-braking if the front vehicle suddenly slows.
Politicians didn't decide this, consumers did....

Emissions, CAFE, and safety standards are all mandated, they are not based on consumer choice.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Those decisions should be made by individual consumers, not the rotten government.

I bet seat belts just piss you off to no end.

I don't need or want any of that shit, and neither do millions of others.

When you wear your seat belt, you are saving the taxpayers millions in trauma center costs. That's why we have seat belt laws. It's absolute tyranny!

 

[aociswundumho]

I bet seat belts just piss you off to no end.

Seat belts were invented by the market to meet the demand for safety. It was an open patent by Volvo which allowed all automakers to install them.

 

[The Mark]

Nowadays, cars are built without ANY concern for making it easy for the customer to repair them. They are basically designed so that the customer must rely on the dealership or other professional mechanics to repair or maintain them. But they used to be designed with ease of repair in mind.

Having lived during the 1980s - 90s, I was easily able to afford to buy cars and trucks from the mid 60s and 70s, which were usually very simple to maintain and repair. In the mid 90s, I owned a 1966 Chevy C10 short bed, step side pickup with a 250 cubic inch straight 6cyl and the venerable Chevy 2-speed "Powerglide" automatic transmission. Its components hadn't been rebuilt, and it had been sitting in the woods behind some guy's house for years!

It sorta needed new shocks and muffler, but It only cost a few hundred dollars in 1994 to have Midas install 4 new shocks, a new muffler and tailpipe. So I had them do it, since those things can be difficult to do, especially if the vehicle is decades old.

But I did have to replace the water pump after a year, and there was slippage in the transmission, so I did both. This provided an example of the cost differential between an older, simpler vehicle vs a newer car. My 1966 C10 truck needed a new water pump and fan belt, and I was able to do it myself for $35 in 1995! Turns out the transmission slippage was fixed by tightening its bands, which was as simple as loosening a locking nut 2-3 turns, then tightening the adjustment nut about 1/2 turn, and re-tightening the locking nut. It took 5 mins.

In the meantime, a family friend needed a new water pump on his 1990s BMW 5-series, which cost $1,500 just got the part + hundreds more for the labor!

So why not bring back a few older, simpler car designs that were proven, without computers and a million sensors, but with basic emissions equipment?
View attachment 67564408

I have personally been wishing there were some kind of vehicle offering that is:
Relatively cheap.
Durable/long lasting (with regular maintenance?)
Able to be repaired by anyone with access to some fairly basic tools and a computer.

And possibly even customizable or modular in some way that allows one vehicle to fill multiple roles.


My current possibly paranoid thinking is that that offering isn't widely available because it would negatively impact a bunch of other car markets, and because newer cars these days are designed not to last as long, require expensive proprietary repair equipment, and/or only function fully if you pay a subscription fee for various services.

That said I haven't looked at all the car options so I might be wrong.
Hell, I probably am.

 

[MamboDervish]

I bet seat belts just piss you off to no end.

When you wear your seat belt, you are saving the taxpayers millions in trauma center costs. That's why we have seat belt laws. It's absolute tyranny!

This reminds me of an anecdote from my early days. I used to motorcycle ride occasionally with a fellow who lived in Connecticut. An otherwise bright guy who worked in aerospace for Sikorsky, an air frame/power plant license holder, he drove a pickup truck and never wore his seat belt, no matter what vehicle he was in. When I asked him about it, his explanation was that he had a fear of being caught in a car fire, and not being able to get out. I pointed out that there were already ample government statistics that showed that the overwhelming number of people who died in car fires was because they had been knocked unconscious in an accident, ... the direct result of not wearing their seat belts! I don't think that knowledge ever changed his well entrenched habits.

 

[Cassandra]

Nowadays, cars are built without ANY concern for making it easy for the customer to repair them. They are basically designed so that the customer must rely on the dealership or other professional mechanics to repair or maintain them. But they used to be designed with ease of repair in mind.

Having lived during the 1980s - 90s, I was easily able to afford to buy cars and trucks from the mid 60s and 70s, which were usually very simple to maintain and repair. In the mid 90s, I owned a 1966 Chevy C10 short bed, step side pickup with a 250 cubic inch straight 6cyl and the venerable Chevy 2-speed "Powerglide" automatic transmission. Its components hadn't been rebuilt, and it had been sitting in the woods behind some guy's house for years!

It sorta needed new shocks and muffler, but It only cost a few hundred dollars in 1994 to have Midas install 4 new shocks, a new muffler and tailpipe. So I had them do it, since those things can be difficult to do, especially if the vehicle is decades old.

But I did have to replace the water pump after a year, and there was slippage in the transmission, so I did both. This provided an example of the cost differential between an older, simpler vehicle vs a newer car. My 1966 C10 truck needed a new water pump and fan belt, and I was able to do it myself for $35 in 1995! Turns out the transmission slippage was fixed by tightening its bands, which was as simple as loosening a locking nut 2-3 turns, then tightening the adjustment nut about 1/2 turn, and re-tightening the locking nut. It took 5 mins.

In the meantime, a family friend needed a new water pump on his 1990s BMW 5-series, which cost $1,500 just got the part + hundreds more for the labor!

So why not bring back a few older, simpler car designs that were proven, without computers and a million sensors, but with basic emissions equipment?
View attachment 67564408

I think e-vehicles are capable of being the inexpensive, easy to maintain transportation that you dream of--if only the u.S. could replicate what China is doing.

I do wish auto makers would offer some basic models . I like rolling up windows myself and don't really want all the bells and whistles

 

[KevinKohler]

My carbureted 1984 Nissan pickup got about 10% better mileage than my 1997 fuel injected model. Same size truck, engine and trans. This is progress?

I'll bet they're not the same weight.

I'll also bet the newer truck has a smaller displacement moter.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Seat belts were invented by the market to meet the demand for safety. It was an open patent by Volvo which allowed all automakers to install them.

But . . . they are mandated by the big bad government. I know much you despise the government having a say in anything with regards to safety.