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Mass. Court Allows Legislature to Consider Placing Gay Marriage Ban on Ballot

Kandahar said:
So you're against marriages that are unions between two men because marriage is a union between a man and a woman. This simplistic tautology is silly; it's like saying you're against abortion because you're against abortion.
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Marriage is defined as a union between a man, and a woman, the only thing that is silly, is when we change definitions, just so folks don't get their feelings hurt.
 
Goobieman said:
Why I am against same sex marriage?

Marriage is a union betweena man and a woman.

This necessarily precludes a union between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, or a man and three women, or six women and six men.
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LOL I am laughing only because Kandahar came in and attacked your response.

I see what you're saying. Thanks for responding (you #$%^&* ;) seriously kidding).
 
Deegan said:
Marriage is defined as a union between a man, and a woman, the only thing that is silly, is when we change definitions, just so folks don't get their feelings hurt.
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I think that a civil union does not come with all the benefits that marriage does. I believe that might be the problem that gay people have with civil unions.
 
Goobieman said:
No... it like saying that since only a certian set of people should have guns, then people not within that set should not have guns.

Marriage is defined as a union betwen a man and woman; a man and a man is not a man and a woman, and so cannot marry.

Fundamentally, marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Change any of those fundamentals (a, man, woman), and its not a marriage.
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Deegan said:
Marriage is defined as a union between a man, and a woman, the only thing that is silly, is when we change definitions, just so folks don't get their feelings hurt.
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Well, two can play at the let's-predefine-words-then-oppose-changing-the-definition-for-no-reason game!

I'm against changing the definition of "murder" to include fetuses, because murder (as I choose to define it) is the extrajudicial killing of live humans.

I'm against changing the definition of "arms" to include nuclear weapons, because arms (as I choose to define them) are guns.

I'm against changing the definition of "freedom of speech" to exclude flag-burning, because freedom of speech (as I choose to define it) includes burning flags.

I'm against changing the definition of "legitimate medical procedure" to exclude assisted suicide, because legitimate medical procedure (as I choose to define it) includes assisted suicide.


Now regardless of what your view is on those specific issues, surely you can recognize that those arguments are not VALID. The same applies for opposition to gay marriage just because that's not what you believe the current definition of marriage is.
 
Kandahar said:
I'm against changing the definition of "murder" to include fetuses, because murder (as I choose to define it) is the extrajudicial killing of live humans.
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Here's the flaw in your argument.
YOU didnt choose to define marriage.
It was defined thousands of years ago, and remains the same today.

You make a fundamental change to anything, and whatever it was before you changed it will no longer exist after the changeis made.
 
aps said:
I think the issue is more about why are those who are against gay marriage against it? What are you afraid of? What will happen to society? What will happen to the "family" as we now know it?

For people like me, I just don't see how anyone else's family situation has any impact on my marriage. If my neighbor beats his wife, how does that impact me (aside from calling the police if I witness the abuse)? Does that lessen my morals, my husband's morals, etc?
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Some people are against gay marriage because they don't eant the definition of marraige change...Some like me are against it because of the bucket of worms it opens for other groups who are defined by choice.......Its as simple as that........
 
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Deegan said:
Homosexuals want to be accepted as normal, I think they are, but they are not going to advance their cause by trying to change the definition of marriage. If they want to advance this issue, they should push for civil unions, and I think this would pass quite easily. This is about protecting marriage, not hating anyone, or disagreeing with their choice, just protecting a tradition.
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Some of us don't believe the sex act that gays engage in is normal.......That said what anyone be they straight or gay do in the privacy of their bedroom is their business......
 
Goobieman said:
Here's the flaw in your argument.
YOU didnt choose to define marriage.
It was defined thousands of years ago, and remains the same today.

You make a fundamental change to anything, and whatever it was before you changed it will no longer exist after the changeis made.
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I agree, he is probably not married either, so it's of no consequence to him at all. The point is, I have always explained marriage to my kids as, between a man, and a woman, now here comes these folks who want to make a liar out of me, no sir.
 
Kelzie said:
That quoted an independent poll. Want to try again?
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So does Newmax and Drudge but Liberals never accept their links......

That said I have a lot of ocnservative friends and to a man none of have ever been part of a poll..........I have always wondered why that is.......:roll:
 
Navy Pride said:
Some of us don't believe the sex act that gays engage in is normal.......That said what anyone be they straight or gay do in the privacy of their bedroom is their business......
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I don't think it's natural, but normal, it does seem to fall under that definition.
 
Kelzie said:
Actually, if we're going to be dragging jallman into this, he wants marriage but will settle for civil union.
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As will 90% of all gays if they were polled.............Its "Feel Good" liberals and a small portion of the gay community that pushes gay marriage....
 
aps said:
I am not calling people against gay marriage homophobic. I want to know what makes someone against gay marriage.
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A lot of the people that believe as you do call us homophobes and bigots just becasue we have a difference of opinion with them.......And they say we are the intolerant ones.....:roll:
 
aps said:
I think that a civil union does not come with all the benefits that marriage does. I believe that might be the problem that gay people have with civil unions.
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You can work out the differences if there are any but what if civil unions did grant all the same benefits as marriage..........How would you feel then?
 
Navy Pride said:
So does Newmax and Drudge but Liberals never accept their links......

That said I have a lot of ocnservative friends and to a man none of have ever been part of a poll..........I have always wondered why that is.......:roll:
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Neither have I, neither have my liberal friends, neither have my parents. Don't worry about it. :roll:
 
ShamMol said:
Neither have I, neither have my liberal friends, neither have my parents. Don't worry about it. :roll:
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I don't, I was just responding to kelzie and her lesbian link.....
 
There is one mistake that Liberals and radical gays make when it comes to marriage..........Marriage is not a right as a lot of radical gays and liberals claim.......You have to get a license to get married.............It is a privilege........
 
Navy Pride said:
There is one mistake that Liberals and radical gays make when it comes to marriage..........Marriage is not a right as a lot of radical gays and liberals claim.......You have to get a license to get married.............It is a privilege........
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I believe that it is a right and a privilege to be quite honest. You have a right to do what you want, and it is a privilege to get get married. No honestly, if the 14th Amendment has any weight whatsoever, it is a right...we just have to convince others of that.
 
ShamMol said:
I believe that it is a right and a privilege to be quite honest. You have a right to do what you want, and it is a privilege to get get married. No honestly, if the 14th Amendment has any weight whatsoever, it is a right...we just have to convince others of that.
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If it was a privilege you would not have to get approval by getting a license.......

Yeah and if gays got the privilege to marry by that same amendment you would have to give it to polygamysts and other groups that would be discrimminated against.......
 
Navy Pride said:
If it was a privilege you would not have to get approval by getting a license.......

Yeah and if gays got the privilege to marry by that same amendment you would have to give it to polygamysts and other groups that would be discrimminated against.......
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Frankly...yes. Even though I don't agree with it, the 14th Amendment probably allows for that. But I am not arguing for that, and I am strictly arguing one point - that the 14th Amendment allows for homosexual marriage. That is it - dispute it or agree with it, don't try and bring in polygammy (because we all disagree with that). Let me phrase it like it was a cross examination - do you deny that the 14th Amendment allows for gay marriage - yes or no?

And by the way, licenses are almost never denied. It is a right.
 
ShamMol said:
Frankly...yes. Even though I don't agree with it, the 14th Amendment probably allows for that. But I am not arguing for that, and I am strictly arguing one point - that the 14th Amendment allows for homosexual marriage. That is it - dispute it or agree with it, don't try and bring in polygammy (because we all disagree with that). Let me phrase it like it was a cross examination - do you deny that the 14th Amendment allows for gay marriage - yes or no?

And by the way, licenses are almost never denied. It is a right.
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Well unlike you I am thinking of the ramifications if gay marriage were made legal and they are staggering..........

I have a friend who works a the county court house issuing marriage licenses and more l are denied then you would think...........
 
Navy Pride said:
You can work out the differences if there are any but what if civil unions did grant all the same benefits as marriage..........How would you feel then?
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Better--much better. :cool:
 
Navy Pride said:
Well unlike you I am thinking of the ramifications if gay marriage were made legal and they are staggering..........

I have a friend who works a the county court house issuing marriage licenses and more l are denied then you would think...........
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Fine, I don't believe you on the your friend issuing marriage liscenses.

The ramifications are staggering, but also correct legally. And by the way, it was done in many European countries without these staggering consequences...now wasn't it?
 
I would not get overly excited about this new ruling...

"But such a vote "might not be the end of the story," the court said. "The only effect of a positive vote will be to make same-sex couples, and their families, unequal to everyone else; this is discrimination in its rawest form,"

"If the initiative is approved by the Legislature and ultimately adopted, there will be time enough, if an appropriate lawsuit is brought, for this court to resolve the question whether our constitution can be home to provisions that are apparently mutually inconsistent and irreconcilable.""

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060710/ts_nm/rights_gays_massachusetts_dc_2

The Mass. Court is basically saying that it can stop the Amendment.
 
Navy Pride said:
There is one mistake that Liberals and radical gays make when it comes to marriage..........Marriage is not a right as a lot of radical gays and liberals claim.......You have to get a license to get married.............It is a privilege........
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And drinking from public water fountains is not a right either. That doesn't mean the city can put a "Whites Only" sign on them.
 
Navy Pride said:
I don't, I was just responding to kelzie and her lesbian link.....
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If you can't disprove the independent poll, it's valid. Should be easy to do, if the evidence exists. Just look for a recent poll from Mass. where support was lower. Good luck.
 
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