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Marines Ordered to make Boot Camp Coed

cpwill

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.......

When you think that Mabus can't **** this up any more...


The Marine Corps has been ordered to come up with a plan to make its enlisted entry-level training coed, and to make its job titles more gender-neutral following the recent move to open all military combat roles to women.

In a Jan. 1 memo to Marine Commandant Gen. Robert Neller, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus requested a "detailed plan" on how the service will fully integrate its boot camp and Officer Candidate School. The plan is due Jan. 15 and will be implemented by April 1, the memo states.

"The Department of the Navy's implementation plan must include gender integration of Marine Corps enlisted recruit training and officer candidate school," Mabus wrote. "In this submission, identify where, if anywhere, this training is already integrated, where it is separate, and specific steps that you will take to fully integrate these trainings."

In a second memo from Mabus to Neller on the same day, the SecNav directed the Marine Corps to conduct a full review of its military occupational specialty titles in an effort to ensure that they are gender neutral....

:doh Make Boot Camp Weaker, and fix it so that recruits will be endlessly trying to screw each other, or the DI's, or visa-versa....
 
Gender neutral job titles. :lamo The feminist retards are really going to town on the military.
 
.......

When you think that Mabus can't **** this up any more...




:doh
Make Boot Camp Weaker, and fix it so that recruits will be endlessly trying to screw each other, or the DI's, or visa-versa...
.


How about posting a link to where Mabus actually said this.

:lol:

I don't really expect to see that anytime soon.
 
How about posting a link to where Mabus actually said this.

He said it when he ordered the Marine Corps to integrate Boot Camp. An idiotic decision on top of another idiotic decision, both of which will make us less powerful. ****ing stupid.
 
The military are going to finally learn to stop raping their colleagues. The rate's over 25%, isn't it?
 
So there's not too many rapes then?

Is that a trick question? Rapes happen, no matter where the person is. Isn't one technically too many?

In reality, much of that data used to come up with the 25% number came from some survey of women veterans who were applying for VA health benefits. That is biased crap. Most of the women I know in the military have never been sexually assaulted while in the military. Heck, one of the most pushed things in the military is bystander intervention which has been going on for much longer than it was given a fancy name (I know because my intervention came when a guy at a party where I was drinking wouldn't leave me alone and the guys renting the house only had to hear me tell the guy to stop touching me (he was stroking my arm), and they kicked him out). If you actually work to build groups into a team rather than instilling an "us vs them" mentality, it makes people actually care and stop things from getting out of hand, especially if that is being done in a way to incorporate the "bystander intervention" message too.
 
There's currently a furore about one reported rape in a drunken New Year revel gone badly wrong in Germany. It appears the standards differ between Muslims and Murkans.
 
Not even the end of page 1 and the derail begins :cool:
 
So there's not too many rapes then?

Actually the rate of rape in the military is lower than it is for the comparable civilian populace.

The Sky-High Shock-Value Click-Bait numbers are usually produced by something along the lines of: "25% Of Women In The Military Have Been Raped, Sexually Assaulted, Sexually Harassed, Sexually Objectified, Had People Make Sexual Comments To or Around Them, Were Hit On or Asked Out by a Fellow Servicemember Whom They Did Not Want to Date - Making Them Feel Uncomfortable, Were Checked Out When Running in PT Shorts, Or Felt That The Military Was a Male Culture...."

etc. The high reporting numbers are in the tail end of the description, but are used to try to bump up the impression of the occurrence rate for the worst offenses.
 
Is that a trick question? Rapes happen, no matter where the person is. Isn't one technically too many?

Here is another fact that most do not want to bother to think about.

A "military rape" happens whenever a person in the military is raped. It also happens if a rapist is a member of the military.

So if Sergeant Jones rapes Sergeant Smith, it is recorded as a military rape.

If Petty Officer Steve Kelly rapes Miss Janice Long, that is also a military rape, since PO Kelly faces not only the criminal justice system, but the UCMJ (it goes in the figures, but in a different way).

But, if Lance Corporal Anderson is raped by Mr. Howard, a civilian, that is also counted as a "military rape", even if Mr. Howard has absolutely no connection with the military in any way.

When I was downrange, they caught a serial rapist on our base. He assaulted at least 15 individuals (of both sexes), but he was a civilian contracted to fix the on-base busses. So all of those he attacked were "military rapes", even though the rapist had never served in uniform.

This also often skewes the numbers, since the majority of those tracked in the system are military victims of rapes. That does not mean their rapist was military at all.

And to make things even more murky, in reality the military does not really track "rape". What they track is "sexual assault", which is not nessicarily the same thing. If I grope somebody and try to force them into a compromising situation but they resist or I back out at the last minute, that is indeed a "sexual assault". And the military tracks it as such. But it is not an actual rape.

Actually the rate of rape in the military is lower than it is for the comparable civilian populace.

Such as the civilian press always equating sexual assault with rape.

Add attempted rapes to actual rapes in the civilian community, and I am sure it is much higher then what the military is reporting.

Add to that the demographics of those in the military is almost exclusively in the primary range of such attacks, where as in the civilian world they literally cover everybody that skews it ven more.

But back to the original topic. One big problem is that the Marine Corps is unlike any other service in how it trains it's recruits. Today the navy only trains in one location, so it is all co-ed. The same in the Air Force, all recruits are trained in only one location.

As far as I am aware, all of the Army trains it's recruits co-ed, with the exception of Fort Bragg (Infantry and Armor). The Army tends to do "One Station" training, where your basic and advanced training is all at the same base. And with 2 of the 3 main combat arms only training at Bragg, that is the one exception. The exception to that is Fort Sill, which trains not only Artillery (all male) but Air Defense Artillery (co-ed), so their basic training is of course co-ed.

The Marine Corps however has 2 training camps. Males can go to MCRD San Diego or Paris Island, depending on where in the country they live. All females however go to Paris Island. Making any changes there will be minor, but I doubt there are enough female recruits to justify moving some to San Diego. And like the Army, all of their advanced training is co-ed, except those where females are not at this time able to enter (once again, combat arms).

So do we make MCRD San Diego co-ed? How much is that going to cost, and do the results justify the cost? Me, I have to say no it is not justified. As far as women in combat units, I have already talked about my feelings in that area. I see most of it as PC claptrap that is going to result in a lot more returning from conflicts in bodybags. But in the name of political correctness, some are willing to see that even if it destroys the lives and bodies of the large percentage that are not able to handle it.
 
I am retired Air Force so worked for many woman during my career. However, basic training is meant to tear an individual down and build them back up into a military man or woman. I can see coed basic as being nothing more than a distraction to the training. I can remember guys begging for laundry duty just in the hope of running across some female in the laundry lol.
 
.......

When you think that Mabus can't **** this up any more...




:doh Make Boot Camp Weaker, and fix it so that recruits will be endlessly trying to screw each other, or the DI's, or visa-versa....

You forgot to mention this......

The Marine Corps is the only military branch that segregates its entry training. While the service has two enlisted boot camp locations, women only attend Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, S.C., where they spend the 12-week training cycle entirely segregated from their male counterparts. Female Marine officer candidates do train alongside males at Officer Candidate School in Quantico, Va., but they live separately and are assigned to segregated companies.

Secretary of the Navy orders Marines to make initial training coed - News - Stripes

Apparently you believe Marines are not capable of controlling their sex drives like members of the other branches. Do they admit only sexual deviants or something? Maybe they should only admit homosexuals to fix the "problem"?
 
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Sexual deviants are tougher? I did not know that.
No. Not having the distraction of sex, weakening male boot camp to accommodate females, or weakening female boot camp via a situation where male recruits can help carry the load for female recruits makes boot camp tougher.

Tougher training means tougher Marines. Tougher Marines means greater mission accomplishment at lower cost in lives.

Example #57 that this administration does not give a **** about the lives of the men and women in uniform serving under it.
 
You forgot to mention this......



Secretary of the Navy orders Marines to make initial training coed - News - Stripes

Apparently you believe Marines are not capable of controlling their sex drives like members of the other branches. Do they admit only sexual deviants or something? Maybe they should only admit homosexuals to fix the "problem"?

tell us about your experience with Marine Boot camp.... just so we know you coming from a position of knowledge instead of ignorance.

there are some things that can be integrated ( individual training courses/classes... but most of boot camp cannot be, period.


this isn't starship troopers with men and women showering together... .this is real life, dealing with real people.

in any event, I have no doubt the Recruits will still be segregated during the bulk of their training...I suspect classroom-type training is the only place you'll see actual integration....and I guarantee DI's will bring down the thunder if any of the recruits get out of line.
most likely, the males won't even be allowed to glance in the general direction of the females without the the DI's wrath coming down on them.

but whatever,what we marines do now works, and there's no good reason to change it... at all.
 
Only according to some really skewed studies.

Oh yeah...every rape is reported...suuuuure they are.

With a closed, male-dominated, incredibly chauvinistic society like the Marine Corps...there would NEVER be cover ups...suuuuuuuuuure.

:roll:

Your a woman and even you seem in denial.

Sad.
 
No. Not having the distraction of sex, weakening male boot camp to accommodate females, or weakening female boot camp via a situation where male recruits can help carry the load for female recruits makes boot camp tougher.

Tougher training means tougher Marines. Tougher Marines means greater mission accomplishment at lower cost in lives.

Example #57 that this administration does not give a **** about the lives of the men and women in uniform serving under it.

Actually it says more about your respect for the military and for women. You think that they will not train as well with the excuse that females are present. Plus you think that women who apply to the Marines want special treatment. Neither of these are true.
 
tell us about your experience with Marine Boot camp.... just so we know you coming from a position of knowledge instead of ignorance.

there are some things that can be integrated ( individual training courses/classes... but most of boot camp cannot be, period.


this isn't starship troopers with men and women showering together... .this is real life, dealing with real people.

in any event, I have no doubt the Recruits will still be segregated during the bulk of their training...I suspect classroom-type training is the only place you'll see actual integration....and I guarantee DI's will bring down the thunder if any of the recruits get out of line.
most likely, the males won't even be allowed to glance in the general direction of the females without the the DI's wrath coming down on them.

but whatever,what we marines do now works, and there's no good reason to change it... at all.

At least you have enough respect for the Marines that you admit they will not sacrifice training because women are present. I don't think so either. If the other branches can do it the Marines can too.
 
The military are going to finally learn to stop raping their colleagues. The rate's over 25%, isn't it?
Wow!
Let's do some math. There were c. 2 million in the US military and, according to Huffington Post, 26,000 cases of "unwanted sexual contact" (a much more common act than rape). So, what, 1.25%? Meanwhile, 1 out of 5 US college students have experience unwanted sexual contact while at college. With 20 million students, that would be 20% or 4 million.

Seems like a bigger problem in colleges. And all these figures are bogus anyway. Unwanted sexual contact? What, like saying Hey Babe?
 
Actually it says more about your respect for the military and for women. You think that they will not train as well with the excuse that females are present. Plus you think that women who apply to the Marines want special treatment. Neither of these are true.

I didn't know you were a US Marine combat veteran?
 
At least you have enough respect for the Marines that you admit they will not sacrifice training because women are present. I don't think so either. If the other branches can do it the Marines can too.

I didn't say training will not suffer... it really depends on what training is slated to be integrated....and how discipline problems are addressed.

and of course I have respect for Marines.. I'm a retired Marine.

as for my opinion on the whole matter... well, as i said.. if it's not broke, don't fix it.... there's no good reason to mess with a formula that's proven to work...none whatsoever.
 
Actually it says more about your respect for the military and for women. You think that they will not train as well with the excuse that females are present. Plus you think that women who apply to the Marines want special treatment. Neither of these are true.

You speak with a lot, and I mean A LOT, of authority.

Say, did you ever serve or have ever even at least been to a military base?
 
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