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Military and police have very different mission statements. Police enforce the rule of law. Military kill enemy combatants.
Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones
But thats ok because the OWS people are commies and deserve whats coming to them.
All the more surprising that military SOP in this case seemed to be a lot less "trigger-happy" and more disciplined than what apparently happened in Oakland, I think that's the point the OP is trying to make.
:shrug: then it's a stupid point, because in a warzone we are a lot more "trigger happy", and anyone who has worked crowd control can look at this line and know that the cops did show discipline. a breakdown of discipline would have involved them trying to kill people on purpose.
Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones
But thats ok because the OWS people are commies and deserve whats coming to them.
1) I thought there were administrative rules against military personnel participating in political protests while in uniform. Does anyone have any insight on that?
2) Police are humans just like the rest of us. They get twitchy and nervous, makes mistakes and overreact just like everyone else. It's really a high-stress job, and when you combine that stress with a volatile situation w/ demonstrators, and a lack of experience with regard to riot/crowd control tactics, **** just happens sometimes.
Jesus Christ! There is something screwed up with America when people start saying that brutality is not brutal enough unless people start dying.
From your link:
The Military manual states:
…have a duty to collect and care for the wounded. Prioritize treatment according to injuries. Make NO treatment distinction based on nationality. All soldiers, enemy or friendly, must be treated the same. [/b]
Not really germaine to your post's intent, but this is a real surprise. I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to be treating enemy and friendly the same.
As to your post, **** happens. Accidents happen. This anonymous source says one aims for range and not at people's heads. So. Range requires an arc. I don't for a New York Minute think this copper aimed at someone's head intentionally. If you think so, then you're into conspiracies. We have got to give "our own" the benefit of the doubt. Period.
1) I thought there were administrative rules against military personnel participating in political protests while in uniform. Does anyone have any insight on that?
2) Police are humans just like the rest of us. They get twitchy and nervous, makes mistakes and overreact just like everyone else. It's really a high-stress job, and when you combine that stress with a volatile situation w/ demonstrators, and a lack of experience with regard to riot/crowd control tactics, **** just happens sometimes.
He wasn't struck with a direct hit......The wounded man was 10 feet away. The arc would have had to be twenty feet high.
I wonder what the manual describes is a "no bull****" assault. Sounds like an opinionated statement. Fact is they were assaulting the line, and no progress was being made.Article said:Before gas goes into a crowd shield bearers have to be making no progress moving a crowd or crowd must be assaulting the line. Not with sticks and stones but a no bull**** assault.
Warnings were issued... and ignored.3 warnings must be given to the crowd in a manner they can hear that force is about to be used.
Not how FEMA teaches Law Enforcement Agencies across the country strangely enough. And yes, my department is going through that as many of us will have to help with the DNC next year.Shield bearers take a knee and CS gas is released in grenade form first to fog out your lines because you have gas masks. You then kick the canisters along in front of your lines.
Which they had.You also have shotguns with beanbags and various less than lethal rounds for your launchers. These are the rules for a WARZONE!!
I watched a very clear video where the camera SHOWED the guy before and after he was injured... no projectile came smacking him directly in the head.... This marine obviously has some bias issues... or was TOLD (by a biased person) that the guy was shot in the head. Regardless.... He is talking out of his ass.How did a cop who is supposed to have training on his weapon system accidentally SHOOT someone in the head with a 40mm gas canister? Simple. He was aiming at him.
Says the Marine who has no business speaking on the matter.The person that pulled that trigger has no business being a cop.
Again, lack of any knowledge of intent, yet making accusatory statements.He sent that round out with the intention of doing some serious damage to the protestors.
What's even more screwed up, is that people think that they can break the law and there will be concequences.
The footage I have seen shows him on the ground quite close to the police line. The police are standing behind barricades, not trying to advance afaict.
Iraq War Veteran Suffers Skull Fracture In Occupy Oakland Violence « CBS San Francisco
I'm no expert, but was the quote that was mentioned in the OP accurate?
Ok well - he has a point.
They're not allowed to do it in a warzone to the enemy or foreigners but are allowed to do it at home to our own people . . . what it seems is that our rules and regulations for home-base use are antiquated whereas the rules and regulations that have developed for warzone areas are specifically designed to be overly careful and sensitive as not to harm civilians.
why wouldnt' they? they've never had to face consequences before in their life. they think having to face consequences is mean and unfair - that's what this whole protest is about.
They want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers, and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards. They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics, and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
Get a clue, they're not going to get any of that on Wall Street. Half the freaking federal budget is a redistribution. Hello?Keep pretending that you don't get it. Others with far more vision do get it.
according to Bloomberg Businessweek:
But you knew all this anyway and simply pretend to focus on stupid nonsense like trivia and hygiene and where somebody poops or pees because it helps you mock what you are afraid of. For folks of your ilk, its the same as whistling past a graveyard.
Are you saying the Marine is wrong. It's not like police don't make mistakes. No doubt there's been error on both sides, because protesters can be beligerent too. But the police have to consider the fact that the protesters are generally unarmed. Regardless of the subject of the protest, we have to be careful to watch the crossing of the line in subduing speech or even the appearance thereof. Otherwise it could come to the point very quickly where the 2nd Amendment comes in and citizens begin to shoot back in an attempt to protect their right to speech. We don't want to go there. Because in the end whether the crowd was acting up or not, all that will be remembered is that citizens began fighting the govt for their rights.I know what he's trying to describe - I've been through the SOTG non-lethal course as well. (incidentally, your bit about humanity? oleoresin capscicum (and you suggested foam!)..... trust me on this one. not humane. I'd rather you just beat me with a stick). Those are not the rules for a warzone. Those aren't even the rules for a tax-free danger area such as Kuwait, for cripes sakes. In a warzone - always you have live rounds. Never are you allowed to not to have live rounds.
but you do have shotguns, that is true, with beanbags, as I have mentioned before. which can also kill, should they strike you in the head.
but hey, ya'll keep trying to whitewash the actions of the crowd by trying to smear the cops. it's a good media image, at least, so maybe it will work out for you.
Keep pretending that you don't get it. Others with far more vision do get it.
haymarket's Bloomberg article said:They want more and better jobs,
more equal distribution of income
less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers
and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards.
They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics
and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
But you knew all this anyway and simply pretend to focus on stupid nonsense like trivia and hygiene and where somebody poops or pees because it helps you mock what you are afraid of. For folks of your ilk, its the same as whistling past a graveyard.
Get a clue, they're not going to get any of that on Wall Street. Half the freaking federal budget is a redistribution. Hello?
This notion of "distribution" of income....Tell us, who distributes income? There is no such thing.
I agree in part, but only if they admit that unions also have to get out of politics.
Why do people get into business? No profit? heh, who would lend you money for nothing? Executive compensation should not be your concern. It is largely based on what the market will bear. Sounds like childish jealousy to me.
Don't we all want jobs....?
They want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers, and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards. They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics, and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
Those are the folks that, "get it"? I'll keep not, "getting it", but thanks anyway. :lamo
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